janos

Hello everyone,

The car is a manual 1995 Honda Civic EX Sedan with a D16Z6.

Last year I replaced my oil pan gasket due to the car leaking oil extremely bad, about 1QT a week, the new gasket helped, but it continued to leak. The under body has oil sprayed all over it.

Yesterday I decided to just install a new oil pan and gasket and it still leaks.

This time I used the Honda Motors Service Manual so I could get the correct torque on the oil pan bolts and nuts and put them near the correct torque sequence, which is suppose to be 9 lbs. There is a total of 18 bolts/nuts.

I used "Permatex 2 Form-A-Gasket Sealant non-hardening pliable sealant" which states that it is for oil pan gaskets. An oil pan gasket made in Japan, the brand is called Tho/Stone, it is JDM. My budget could only allow me to get an inexpensive Torque Wrench. The brand is called Pittsburgh, (Amazon under $30) the Torque range is 5 to 80 ft lbs, plus or minus 4%.

The gasket sealant was applied all around the gasket and on both sides. The service manual only shows to put the sealant where the oil pump end is and the flywheel side. Is this where I went wrong? I figured applying it all around the gasket it would prevent it from leaking all around.

Due to the Pittsburgh torque wrench stating it is accurate to within +/- 4%. I figured it might be best to set the torque at 10lbs, instead of 9lbs. As it would make it within the 9.6 lbs to 10.4 lbs.

The bolts/nuts were tighten in order 1-18 and then I noticed that the gasket was squeezing out from the top of the oil pan. Just to be certain the bolts/nuts were tighten; I went back before I lowered the car and they all seemed really loose. Should I have left them alone, instead of re-tighten them at the same torque? Are they suppose to loosen up as you go around the pan in sequence?

The gasket sealant says to let it sit for a few minutes. I waited about 8 minutes.

I put everything else back and put oil in the car about 20 minutes later. Should I have waited a certain amount of time to put oil in? Sadly, the shop manual does not give exact details of everything.

Should I just get a new gasket, try torquing at 8lbs, and only put sealant on the corner ends? I really hate to have to keep on redoing this. I drive to school daily and have my two young children in my car, so I just want to stop this oil leak.

Thanks!

Damanzi

Are you sure you are not leaking from distributor o ring

JoeBlue

My cam seal leaks like crazy and I get oil spray all under the car as well as a pool of oil I have to spray off every time I drive the car. Still waiting on that damn seal... Sure it's your oil pan?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

You used entirely too much liquid gasket on that thing. Why do people always think they know better than the FSM? Hint: You don't. Your gasket also looks...red. Are you using OEM? I'm guessing no. Have you inspected any other possible leaks, like your rear main, oil pump seal, distributor, or VTEC solenoid?

HondaPartsHero

^exactly. 1 qt a week from the oil pan gasket? Was part of it missing because that sounds like a lot of oil for just that one gasket.

JDMswagSerf

Are you tightening the bolts
/nuts from the middle to the outer?
Ive put SIMILAR AMOUNT of silicone on oil pan gaskets ive ude, checp no name gasktes amd never had leaks.
Tighten them from the middle to the outer similar to headbolt tightening.
After that, id start inspecting other areas for leaks.
A qt a week is alot. My friends car burns oil and thats ehat it burns. 1qt/week. Hmm
No they should not be loose after they are all tight.

Idk if this is what you mean by 1-18
But id go

15-13-7-5-1-3-9-11-17
18-12-10-4-2-6-8-14-16
After this i start back from one and re check all of them till none are loose. Never used a trq wrench and never had leaks

JDMswagSerf

This is exactly what i used with black rtv, had no problems at all
GL!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DNJ-PG212-Engine-Oil-Pan-Gasket-/291046636692?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AIntegra&hash=item43c3bb3c94&vxp=mtr

axis11

Stop soaking that gasket with sealant and apply only a little at the points shown on the manual. Using sealant all around just turns it into a lubricant and causes the gasket to move away from the mating surfaces. And also while your looking at the torque wrench, look as well on the mating surfaces.If you see the gasket oozing away from the 2 surfaces, it means your over tightening the bolts.
Clean all the oil under the car and see whether there are other sources of leaks. Leaking rear main seals are pretty common on these cars.

rice a roni

iTrader: (1)

I've always had issues with oil pans still leaking but recently I figured if out.

Make sure both speaking surfaces are clean.

Use brake cleaner to make sure it's clean and dry.

Apply a nice layer if ultra grey on the pan and throw the gasket on the pan ribbed face down. You should also apply ultra grey where the oil pump meets the block and where the rear main meets the block.

Put bolts in the gasket/pan to align the gasket while it dries. Wait an hour then throw it on. Torque it to 9 ft lbs in the correct torque sequence. Not 10 ft lbs.

I usually wait 12 hours to put oil in it. Been dropping my pan recently to do oil pump and re weld my oil return. No drips.

TomCat39

Like others have said, waaaay to much liquid gasket. Not only does it interfere with the gasket itself, you can get excess inside the oil pan that can come off and stick in your pickup screen or oil pump. Less is more in this case.

1 ft-lb won't make much difference but torque sequence makes a huge difference even though 9 ft-lbs is a better philsophy. Don't go 1-18 for sequence. You go middle top, middle bottom then do star like pattern. one to the left top, one to the right bottom, one to the right top, one to the left bottom continue this pattern working from the middle out to the edges.

And lastly, more seals leak than just the oil pan. Quite likely your main seals are no longer fresh and new and are letting out oil out that soaks the bottom driver side and passenger side of the motor, let alone all the other various seals that could be seeping oil.

janos

Thanks for your reply. This is the chart that I followed, except for the torque being 10lbs, instead of 9lbs, due to the -+ 4% inaccuracy of the wrench.

I'll just get another gasket and redo it. I'll only apply a little gasket sealant at the corners by the flywheel and oil pump.

From looking at this chart, would it be best to apply gasket sealant between screws 15-11, 17-12, 13-18 and 14-16 and do not put anything between 11-13 and 12-14?



So basically, the gasket should just float in between the pan and the engine? not be squeezed. Kind of like a perfect peanut butter sandwich, where you can just see the middle, but nothing is pouring out from the sides.

janos

I just took a picture of the oil pan. You can see where the oil is being displaced over the under body and that the gasket is squeezed out.

janos

Has anyone ever used the Felpro Conversion Gasket Set?
Advance Auto Parts - Part No. CS 9915

This includes the Rear Main Seal, Timing Cover Gasket, and Water Pump Gasket.

So hopefully if all of these are changed out, this would stop the oil leak for sure.

pogeeboy27

iTrader: (3)

It's possible the mating surface of your oil pan is warped. I had the same problem on a B16 and once I installed a brand new oil pan, no more leaks. Just be sure to follow the tightening sequence and do not overtorque the bolts/nuts.

TomCat39

For the liquid gasket, just do the corners, so 15 not 15 to 11. And even then it's not to 15 just the corner itself where it has nearly a 90 degree angle. It's just the corners of gaskets that need a little extra to seal. Just like it is for the valvle cover, where it transitions from horizontal to near vertical, those are the corners you put a little dab.

I've not read good reviews for felpro, everyone usually says go OEM.

Also the best liquid gasket you can get is "Permatex The Right Stuff - Grey" Unlike Ultra Grey which is a standard RTV, The Right Stuff is an anaerobic (sp?) which is what almost all the car manufactuturers have been switching to for it's higher success rate and better characteristics as a gasket sealer. The right stuff grey is Honda Bond but cheaper, Ultra Grey is not but many mechanics still use it with great success so is a good alternative.

I don't really know what the difference between "The Right Stuff" black and grey is but grey is for imports while black is for domestic, both being anaerobic, non hardening gasket sealer/maker.

And your chart is the proper tightening sequence. when you said 1-18 that usually means going sequentially around the oil pan so everyone was like whoa nelly!!

VeganEJ8

I've used Felpro before and it has worked fine. Honestly it might be another leak... There's dye to put into your oil to help you find it. I'd suspect it's the rear main.

TomCat39

In the picture it's on the crank pulley side, that would be front main.

Rear main is a bit harder to see but usally the transmission bell housing is getting oil over it too as well as the flywheel inspection plate if it's a manual transmission.

janos

Thanks TomCat,

The car is a manual. Is difficult is it to replace the front main seal? Thanks. I need to get this fixed soon, because I have oil that is getting all over the place. My alternator is starting to get covered in oil.

baller status

Another common source for leaks is the O ring on the black box just above the oil filter. This thing can be a real nightmare to take off/put back on on some engines. There's only a couple 10mm but getting them lined up can be a bitch.

Get a set of O rings because if you only have one that is too thick, you'll never get that thing squeezed back into your block.

You have to remove your intake manifold bracket. I'd suggest leaving it off since it's just dead weight.

Also check / replace your PCV.

TomCat39

I haven't had the chance to do one yet (that will be this spring on a JDM d15b carb motor, fun finding them seals), you have to pull the crank pulley off and the timing belt and I believe the crank cog for the timing belt also must come off. It's not as bad as the rear main where you have to drop the tranny and take off the clutch and flywheel but still not as easy as say a distributor o-ring or the breather box o-ring.

Anyways, first you have to find out if it is the front main. Get the dye for oil leaks and a black light. Put the dye in, run it a couple of days to a week then shine the black light around and see where the oil is coming from. I would actually do the light every day until I see glow showing me where the leak(s) are. I would suspect the oil pan first being it wasn't done properly but who is to say. The dye will tell you definitively where the leak(s) are and what will need replacing.
Thats the breather box you are talking about. Not sure how the Z6 is to the B7 but I did mine without too much trouble. The top 10mm bolt was the most difficult to get back in but doable.

As for the o-rings, I just bought OEM from teh dealership for both the o-ring and the grommet on the top of the breather box.

Also I am not a big fan of not putting the brace back in place. The motor vibrates a lot and I don't want just the intake bolts on the head only holding the complete manifold in place. I like that the manifold is also secured to the block, added weight or no, the piece of mind that it's not going anywhere is worth the weight in my opinion. If you want weight reduction have an aluminum brace manufactured to replace the steal one. Keep the strength and lose weight.

Wdpfreak145

Checking the cam seal is a very good idea. I just did this recently when I went to replace my timing belt (the old one rubbed and was starting to seperate- I caught it in time). If you have an impact gun and vice grips it's an easy job to get the cog off. Vice grips are to hold it in place and the impact will turn the bolt right out of the cam no problem. The seal is very easy to get in/out and should only cost a few bucks. I trust FelPro for all my gaskets, and they do not fail me unless I install them improperly.

A quart a week is a lot. Definitely start spraying oil down with brake parts cleaner to kind of degrease the engine and then check frequently to see where it originates from.

tony_2018

Go get some brake cleaner and clean that **** up top off oil and start it up. Sit under the car and watch for leaks. There's no ****** way the internet is going to tell you what we can't see.

janos

That is the truth.

janos

Today, I didn't really think much of it, until rice a roni and tomcat talked about Grey.

I noticed that the stuff I used was different.

Is there a big difference between Permatex 2 Form-A-Gasket Sealant non-hardening pliable sealant and Permatex ultra Grey?

The Ultra Grey is RTV and is labeled on the front as. The Permatex 2 Form is not labeled. I purchased the Permatex 2 Form because it said it works on oil pans.

Today I just purchased the Ultra Grey is RTV, which as you said Tomcat, says it is for Imports. They Grey and Black, both handle temperatures up till 500F. Form-A-Gasket No. 2 Sealant is up till 400F.

So if I were to use Permatex the Right Stuff, would I use that solely instead of the OEM gasket? and if so, how much would I use? and how long would it sit before putting the oil pan back on, and then refilling it with oil? If you think that would be best, then I'll just take this Ultra Grey RTV back and the RIGHT STUFF.

They also have Lower Gasket Conversion Sets that I see on eBay for sale. Are these any good to buy, seeing they have quite a few gaskets?



Thanks

tony_2018

If you're just changing the oil pan gasket just get the gasket. Right now this oil pan gasket swap out its going to be longer than usual because now you have to scrap all that **** off COMPLETELY before putting on the new gasket. You cannot use permatex as a replacement for the actual rubber gasket, that is NOT the right way of replacing a gasket in this case.

edit: Truthfully, I never had a need to put any hondabond or liquid gasket on there. I just tighten down to spec following the pattern in the manual. The only thing I do add on is some loctite on the nuts and bolts, not the red one the blue one. That way they won't back out.