philztheone

Can a well-cared-for D15B7 engine with 250k miles be rebuilt? Or should I replace? And if so, replace with what?

My '93 Del Sol's D15B7 has 0 compression in a cylinder. The engine has 250k miles on it. I live in Houston so the body's in good shape. I like the car. Do I rebuild the engine or replace it?

Ideally, I'd rebuild it, however I fear the rebuilder will say that the block or head cannot be used. In which case, I'll tell him to replace whatever is required. What do you think?

Or replace it? And if so, with what? Thank you gentlemen in advance.--Phil

jlk16188

you can replace it with a low mileage JDM imported motor for half the cost of having a shop rebuild your current motor.

Former User

Have you done a cylinder leak down test for the bad cylinder to see where compression is lost? Was the compression issue caused by the timing slipping or snapping?

philztheone

Ron J, was ready to bring to a shop to do a leak down test, I don't have an air compressor. Spoke to shop owner who said "Hey, if it's the head today, you'll need to replace the block soon after, so why not just replace both now? He didn't know it, but he would not be doing the work. But I thought his point a reasonable one. What do you think? Forgo the test and rebuild/replace the engine.

Former User

Your thread title says: "well-cared-for D15B7 engine"

If I take you at your word, then the block and head may have many more miles to give. Do a leak down test and, if the damage is relatively easy to fix, then fix it, especially if the engine looks fine when you open it up.

philztheone

Ron, first, thanks for your help. I really appreciate it. The car has been well cared for, and when doing my clutch last year I replaced the oil pan and had a look at the bottom of the crank arms and they looked good. For me an easy fix is anything to do with the head. If the problem was with the head, I could have the head serviced now. Then if later on it developed a ring problem I could have it serviced by itself then. Wow you think more than 250k miles, ok.

The mechanic I spoke with said he would not do a leak down test but instead squirt oil into the spark plug hole in the bad cylinder. If the compression increased he would conclude bad rings. What do you think? Is this valid? Or should I find someone to do a real leak down test?

tony_2018

If it was well cared for than yes you can rebuild it, but the thing is this. What does a rebuild mean to you? Some people really don't understand the meaning of rebuild and just think that a timing belt job, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, spark plugs and wires is enough to be considered a rebuild.

Former User

Find a better mechanic or, better yet, do the leak down test yourself. Don't make any final decision until you have a crystal clear cylinder leak down test result on the bad cylinder.

philztheone

I will hunt down a better mechanic but I'd love to do the test myself. But how can I do the leak by myself, I don't have an air compressor?

Former User

Maybe you can rent one or use a bike pump?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Yep, most major cities and towns have industrial rental places where you can get things like back hoes, plows, and other large equipment - they should also have a range of air compressors, from small, electric-powered units, to huge diesel-powered units.

It ultimately depends on what you want, how mechanically inclined you are, and how much you are willing to spend. A replacement motor is the cheaper option, and if you get a direct-replacement, it's also the easier option, but there is no guarantee outside of first-start, and some companies don't even provide that. "Low mileage" is just a keyword that engine importers throw around. No, people in Japan are not "required by law" to swap their motors at 45k, or 60k, or any of that nonsense. You might get an engine that has 150k on it, and then you're just delaying what you already have to deal with a little bit longer. If you are mechanically inclined enough to rebuild a motor (it really isn't as hard as it sounds), you can get entire "kits" online for decent prices. Combine one of those kits with some machine work from a reputable local shop, and you can have the engine completely rebuilt and essentially back to 0 miles for under $1000, and a week's worth of work. If you're curious what all is involved in rebuilding an engine, feel free to look at my build thread - I go over, in detail, my rebuilding of a B18B1, but the general concept is exactly the same for any Honda D, B, or F engine - the only difference is the part numbers and torque values.

If you don't feel mechanically inclined to rebuild your own engine, just find one in a junk yard local to you, and swap that in. At least you'll be able to look at the odometer and be fairly confident in how many miles are on the engine. You could go through an engine importer, but unless you want some special, rare engine, it isn't really worth it. For the cost and time of having a shop do the rebuild for you, you might as well buy another car.

collkid

I've heard this, but after weeks of searching, I really haven't come up with any good leads.

Do you have a website, company, or link?

philztheone

NotaRacist, Thanks and I've got to read your reply again. College kid, the outfit local to me is japaneseusedengines.net. He's in Houston. He said all Japanese cars are taken off the road after 50k miles. NotARacist, says no. It seems hard to believe. I should ask my Japanese friends.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

That's an incorrect reading of a law that most Americans don't understand, and every engine importer uses that ignorance to sell a lie to their customers. It's "Shaken" law, and it doesn't mandate engine replacement at a specific mileage. You can read more about it here.

On top of that, "JDM" engines aren't even necessarily even JDM. Engine codes that are used in Japan are also used in a number of other countries.

I'm not saying that engine importers are a scam. They're just telling you a story that you like to hear, and making a guarantee of something that is next to impossible to disprove.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

What, are you guys, campaigning for the "save the D series" programme?

An asian market swap is around $500-900 shipped at jdmenginescorp.com.

-How much trouble are you going through to find out whats wrong with your current motor? Follow up question: who cares what's wrong with it? Its broken. A replacement is cheap.

-how much will this shop charge you to rebuild bottom and top (don't do one or the other)? Is it more than $500-900? (Obviously...yes).

-How many motors that are rebuilt by random shops, using "OEM equivalent" parts do you see running for more than a year or so without issue? If you need to use two hands to count them...my mouth would be agap with surprise.

Buy another motor. Freshen up the outer parts like the T belt, a few gaskets, etc. An OBD2 longblock would be fresher...but you'll need to swap some of your old stuff over...like injectors and possibly a manifold or two.

OBD1 swaps are almost drop-in. But are older.

Then sell your busted motor to some fruitbat that wants to rebuild a D series for sport or turbo it or something else futile. Their future is bleak. But yours doesn't have to be.

Former User

I haven't heard enough information to know whether the current engine is trashed and what the cost of repair may be. What would be the approximate cost of replacing a bent valve?

B serious

iTrader: (1)

After running around aquiring equipment to diagnose the issue and spending time finding a problem....

For a shop to:
-remove the head
-machine the seats
-replace all the valves and seals
-buy a head gasket, t belt, etc.
-surface the head

Probably in the billions. Plus, the great wall of china was built in less time. And you'll still have a 250k mile motor that in a month, will mysteriously be acting up again.

A JDM swap is $500. About $200-300 in gaskets, seals, and parts (from Honda). Labor would likely be comparable or slightly higher...or do it yourself. The down time would be lower. You can sell the old motor for $100ish. The cost would end up being very comparable, I believe. And you'll have a motor with less mileage. Likely around 50-100k miles.

A USDM junkyard D series with a warranty and documented mileage would cost around the same as a JDM swap. So thats another option. Its not like there's a shortage of wrecked civics with perfectly good D motors.

Former User

Haha...do you sell JDM motors for a living?

I normally recommend an engine swap if it's clearly trashed. I'm just not sure this is one of them. My D16Y7 has 160K and runs like when it was new.

tony_2018

No one knows, but for the purpose of saving money a swap would be beneficial, so that the rest of the money can go to all the maintenance parts to replace worn out parts, gaskets you can't get to once the motor is in and fluids as well.

Rebuild would be a total beneficial because its a motor with 0 miles on there and should last another 4 - 5 yrs, just need to make sure the tranny can last that long.

Former User

Oh please, we're talking about a leak down test.

Nonetheless, your sense of humor is always worth the read.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

Lol thanks. But...someone was suggesting that poor OP run around renting an air compressor to do a leak down test.

And no...I don't have stock in JDM engines...or Japan as a country. I'm just going for absolute effort vs. Benefit vs. Risk.

I am fully equipped with a bigass compressor and a leak down tester. I have blown up gangs of D series. When I blown them up, I am about as likely to get out my leak down tester as I am likely to call the FAA and ask for a wreckage analysis. If it had 250K miles on it and the compression in a cylinder was 0....the only testing I'd be likely to do is to see if it responded to me laughing at it in contempt.

Infact....the next time I find one with that condition, I'll start a thread titled "how much contemptuous laughter and nitrous can a D series handle?"

I'm just saying. A good working replacement is ~ $500. From the US or from Asia.

B serious

iTrader: (1)

All pressuring aside...the OP is obviously free to do what he wants. I'm just saying that in the end...even if he were to patch up his busted D series...the risk of having an issue down the line isn't worth the amount of money he'll save.

If he has it rebuilt...the cost is higher than a JDM swap. And the risk is likely higher. We've all seen tons of "shop rebuilt my motor...now my head gasket/anus leaks" threads. Not worth it in any way at all.

Time and effort is also a factor. Maybe it's my urban up bringing or insect-like metabolism/attention span. But I wouldn't waste my time trying to dissect a 250k mile D series that suddenly lost all compression. I talk fast, I walk fast, and I fix cars fast. I'm silly like that, jerky.

philztheone

I'm still digesting all of these pithy replies. Thank you all. Prices:
.$110 for a 6 gallon, 150 psi air compressor from Home Depot
.$100 for "leak down test" from local mechanic
.$1,000 for a "less than 50k miles" "used motor from Japan"
.$2,000 for a local shop to rebuild the long block

My skill set includes: replacing my DelSol's clutch last year; replacing its timing belt and replacing an '06 Acura TL timing belt.

More to come. And again thank you to all.

tony_2018

I'm sure you can rent it for 30 - 40 bucks a day...the air compressor that is.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Yep. Buying a compressor just to do a leakdown test would be silly.