Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM??
12-03-2007, 07:16 AM
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Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM??
I have a JDM b18C engine.
Can a stock SIR-G valvetrain handle 8800RPM???
I upgraded my stock butterfly manifold to a skunk 2. I sent my ecu to get a type R map put on and set the VTEC @ 5300 and redline @8800RPM.
Thank you...
Can a stock SIR-G valvetrain handle 8800RPM???
I upgraded my stock butterfly manifold to a skunk 2. I sent my ecu to get a type R map put on and set the VTEC @ 5300 and redline @8800RPM.
Thank you...
12-03-2007, 07:29 AM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (EG6 Poe)
ON a stock motor, reving beyond the stock redline does you no good.\
more rpms does NOT = more power.
more rpms does NOT = more power.
12-03-2007, 07:33 AM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (ek forever guy)
my stock redline is 8200rpm. If I slightly go to 8800rpm with the proper fuel map, what will be wrong with that??
12-03-2007, 08:06 AM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (EG6 Poe)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EG6 Poe »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my stock redline is 8200rpm. If I slightly go to 8800rpm with the proper fuel map, what will be wrong with that??</TD></TR></TABLE>
Other than not making power for that last 600rpms, wasting that half seconds, and potentially damaging your motor, Nothing.
Other than not making power for that last 600rpms, wasting that half seconds, and potentially damaging your motor, Nothing.
12-03-2007, 08:42 AM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (ek forever guy)
The reason engines usually don't make power past the redline is air restriction.
Skunk2 IM's are a joke IMO, and with the stock cams it won't make power all the way to 8800 all the way anyways.
I mean you've already made your first mistake when you decided to send your ECU out to get a "Type R" basemap put on it. It's a GSR, it uses a GSR basemap. A Type R motor IS NOT a GSR with a Type R basemap. You'll probably run it rich towards the top of your RPM band, gaining absolutely nothing while burning more fuel..but whatever floats your boat. *sigh* Ricers.
On the flipside, the engine revving to 8800 with a stock cam system in there is no good, plus you risk floating the valves. As the engine won't make as much power there, you'll spend more time getting from 8200 to 8800, than you would getting form 7600, to 8200, it'll start to go out of the torque band.
If you wanna do this right (which you obviously don't because you sent your ECU out to get a Type R basemap put on it (that's half assed, by the way)), you'll put stage 1 or stage 2 cams in there, put titanium valve springs, retainers, and keepers in there, I'd also replace the valve seals while you're in there, but whatever. Then, you need to take it to get dyno tuned. Slapping a larger cam in there would let more air in, but your duty cycle would still be the same, so you'd lean out - the type R ECU might compensate for that...but that's about as half assed as you could possibly get.
My recommendation:
Do it right, or don't do it. You throw your ITR or CTR ECU in there, with your S2 mani, and keep pinning that SOB to 8800 RPM before shifting, you'll do alright...I mean you'll lose a shitload of time in between 8200 and 8800 RPM, but that's your problem. And obviously, the life of the engine would be decreased.
The redline is the maximum RPM that the engine can handle. Obviously there's a fail-safe of 5 or 600 RPM (sometimes more) so that in case you hit 8300, you don't sling a rod, but it's quite simply NOT meant to operate at 8800 RPM. Two reasons the redline is 8200 RPM. A) Due to the head design, it starts to drop off the torque band, making that 600 RPM useless as hell, B) Go any further and you risk tossing a rod or floating the valves.
PS:
Anybody wanna enlighten me on what the hell a butterfly manifold is? I think you're saying you have the stock throttle body on an S2 manifold (in which case that's a cheap *** / half assed setup that won't net you any real power). I can't say it enough, do it once, do it right. You won't have turbulence in your throttle body, but your OEM throttle body will still restrict air, the best thing to do would be to get a throttle body that's port matched to the inlet port on your intake manifold, so your throttle body doesn't bottleneck it. Then get something like the password JDM intake (whale *****) so you don't suffer from pipe restriction. Even then I wouldn't bother trying to raise the redline to 8800.
To do it right, you'll need a port and polished head just to get the air flow into the head to support that (or you can try putting a B16A2/A3 head on it). If you put a B16 head on it, with more aggressive cams, with a throttle body port matched to the inlet port of your intake manifold, and a whale ***** or other "open" intake, then GET IT TUNED. Don't throw a "Type R basemap" on it - go to a dyno, with Hondata S200 or whatever, Chipped OBD-I ECU, whatever, and get it dyno tuned.
You do that, you'll be able to rev to 8800 and still make power. Though you're still endangering throwing a rod and/or floating the valves (unless you get titanium valve springs (note: Titanium valve springs only last 20-30k)). Just make sure you keep it rich up top.
Skunk2 IM's are a joke IMO, and with the stock cams it won't make power all the way to 8800 all the way anyways.
I mean you've already made your first mistake when you decided to send your ECU out to get a "Type R" basemap put on it. It's a GSR, it uses a GSR basemap. A Type R motor IS NOT a GSR with a Type R basemap. You'll probably run it rich towards the top of your RPM band, gaining absolutely nothing while burning more fuel..but whatever floats your boat. *sigh* Ricers.
On the flipside, the engine revving to 8800 with a stock cam system in there is no good, plus you risk floating the valves. As the engine won't make as much power there, you'll spend more time getting from 8200 to 8800, than you would getting form 7600, to 8200, it'll start to go out of the torque band.
If you wanna do this right (which you obviously don't because you sent your ECU out to get a Type R basemap put on it (that's half assed, by the way)), you'll put stage 1 or stage 2 cams in there, put titanium valve springs, retainers, and keepers in there, I'd also replace the valve seals while you're in there, but whatever. Then, you need to take it to get dyno tuned. Slapping a larger cam in there would let more air in, but your duty cycle would still be the same, so you'd lean out - the type R ECU might compensate for that...but that's about as half assed as you could possibly get.
My recommendation:
Do it right, or don't do it. You throw your ITR or CTR ECU in there, with your S2 mani, and keep pinning that SOB to 8800 RPM before shifting, you'll do alright...I mean you'll lose a shitload of time in between 8200 and 8800 RPM, but that's your problem. And obviously, the life of the engine would be decreased.
The redline is the maximum RPM that the engine can handle. Obviously there's a fail-safe of 5 or 600 RPM (sometimes more) so that in case you hit 8300, you don't sling a rod, but it's quite simply NOT meant to operate at 8800 RPM. Two reasons the redline is 8200 RPM. A) Due to the head design, it starts to drop off the torque band, making that 600 RPM useless as hell, B) Go any further and you risk tossing a rod or floating the valves.
PS:
Anybody wanna enlighten me on what the hell a butterfly manifold is? I think you're saying you have the stock throttle body on an S2 manifold (in which case that's a cheap *** / half assed setup that won't net you any real power). I can't say it enough, do it once, do it right. You won't have turbulence in your throttle body, but your OEM throttle body will still restrict air, the best thing to do would be to get a throttle body that's port matched to the inlet port on your intake manifold, so your throttle body doesn't bottleneck it. Then get something like the password JDM intake (whale *****) so you don't suffer from pipe restriction. Even then I wouldn't bother trying to raise the redline to 8800.
To do it right, you'll need a port and polished head just to get the air flow into the head to support that (or you can try putting a B16A2/A3 head on it). If you put a B16 head on it, with more aggressive cams, with a throttle body port matched to the inlet port of your intake manifold, and a whale ***** or other "open" intake, then GET IT TUNED. Don't throw a "Type R basemap" on it - go to a dyno, with Hondata S200 or whatever, Chipped OBD-I ECU, whatever, and get it dyno tuned.
You do that, you'll be able to rev to 8800 and still make power. Though you're still endangering throwing a rod and/or floating the valves (unless you get titanium valve springs (note: Titanium valve springs only last 20-30k)). Just make sure you keep it rich up top.
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12-03-2007, 02:16 PM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (Syndacate)
I am not planning on going there with the RPMS. I just want to make sure that if I dont shift on time that I'll be ok if the rpms go there. I plan on shifting at 8100-8200 RPMS
12-03-2007, 03:45 PM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (EG6 Poe)
The stock valve train will be fine if you only do it on occasion and by accident. If you shift normally at the end of the power curve, you'll be fine.
12-03-2007, 03:55 PM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (Syndacate)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Syndacate »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
PS:
Anybody wanna enlighten me on what the hell a butterfly manifold is?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i think the OP was talking about his stock gsr im with secondary butterflies...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The stock valve train will be fine if you only do it on occasion and by accident. If you shift normally at the end of the power curve, you'll be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and take his advice and you will be fine
PS:
Anybody wanna enlighten me on what the hell a butterfly manifold is?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i think the OP was talking about his stock gsr im with secondary butterflies...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ek forever guy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The stock valve train will be fine if you only do it on occasion and by accident. If you shift normally at the end of the power curve, you'll be fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
and take his advice and you will be fine
07-21-2010, 07:20 AM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG8othL1SAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA7eu...eature=related
07-21-2010, 07:22 AM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (ek forever guy)
The reason engines usually don't make power past the redline is air restriction.
Skunk2 IM's are a joke IMO, and with the stock cams it won't make power all the way to 8800 all the way anyways.
I mean you've already made your first mistake when you decided to send your ECU out to get a "Type R" basemap put on it. It's a GSR, it uses a GSR basemap. A Type R motor IS NOT a GSR with a Type R basemap. You'll probably run it rich towards the top of your RPM band, gaining absolutely nothing while burning more fuel..but whatever floats your boat. *sigh* Ricers.
On the flipside, the engine revving to 8800 with a stock cam system in there is no good, plus you risk floating the valves. As the engine won't make as much power there, you'll spend more time getting from 8200 to 8800, than you would getting form 7600, to 8200, it'll start to go out of the torque band.
If you wanna do this right (which you obviously don't because you sent your ECU out to get a Type R basemap put on it (that's half assed, by the way)), you'll put stage 1 or stage 2 cams in there, put titanium valve springs, retainers, and keepers in there, I'd also replace the valve seals while you're in there, but whatever. Then, you need to take it to get dyno tuned. Slapping a larger cam in there would let more air in, but your duty cycle would still be the same, so you'd lean out - the type R ECU might compensate for that...but that's about as half assed as you could possibly get.
My recommendation:
Do it right, or don't do it. You throw your ITR or CTR ECU in there, with your S2 mani, and keep pinning that SOB to 8800 RPM before shifting, you'll do alright...I mean you'll lose a shitload of time in between 8200 and 8800 RPM, but that's your problem. And obviously, the life of the engine would be decreased.
The redline is the maximum RPM that the engine can handle. Obviously there's a fail-safe of 5 or 600 RPM (sometimes more) so that in case you hit 8300, you don't sling a rod, but it's quite simply NOT meant to operate at 8800 RPM. Two reasons the redline is 8200 RPM. A) Due to the head design, it starts to drop off the torque band, making that 600 RPM useless as hell, B) Go any further and you risk tossing a rod or floating the valves.
PS:
Anybody wanna enlighten me on what the hell a butterfly manifold is? I think you're saying you have the stock throttle body on an S2 manifold (in which case that's a cheap *** / half assed setup that won't net you any real power). I can't say it enough, do it once, do it right. You won't have turbulence in your throttle body, but your OEM throttle body will still restrict air, the best thing to do would be to get a throttle body that's port matched to the inlet port on your intake manifold, so your throttle body doesn't bottleneck it. Then get something like the password JDM intake (whale *****) so you don't suffer from pipe restriction. Even then I wouldn't bother trying to raise the redline to 8800.
To do it right, you'll need a port and polished head just to get the air flow into the head to support that (or you can try putting a B16A2/A3 head on it). If you put a B16 head on it, with more aggressive cams, with a throttle body port matched to the inlet port of your intake manifold, and a whale ***** or other "open" intake, then GET IT TUNED. Don't throw a "Type R basemap" on it - go to a dyno, with Hondata S200 or whatever, Chipped OBD-I ECU, whatever, and get it dyno tuned.
You do that, you'll be able to rev to 8800 and still make power. Though you're still endangering throwing a rod and/or floating the valves (unless you get titanium valve springs (note: Titanium valve springs only last 20-30k)). Just make sure you keep it rich up top.
Skunk2 IM's are a joke IMO, and with the stock cams it won't make power all the way to 8800 all the way anyways.
I mean you've already made your first mistake when you decided to send your ECU out to get a "Type R" basemap put on it. It's a GSR, it uses a GSR basemap. A Type R motor IS NOT a GSR with a Type R basemap. You'll probably run it rich towards the top of your RPM band, gaining absolutely nothing while burning more fuel..but whatever floats your boat. *sigh* Ricers.
On the flipside, the engine revving to 8800 with a stock cam system in there is no good, plus you risk floating the valves. As the engine won't make as much power there, you'll spend more time getting from 8200 to 8800, than you would getting form 7600, to 8200, it'll start to go out of the torque band.
If you wanna do this right (which you obviously don't because you sent your ECU out to get a Type R basemap put on it (that's half assed, by the way)), you'll put stage 1 or stage 2 cams in there, put titanium valve springs, retainers, and keepers in there, I'd also replace the valve seals while you're in there, but whatever. Then, you need to take it to get dyno tuned. Slapping a larger cam in there would let more air in, but your duty cycle would still be the same, so you'd lean out - the type R ECU might compensate for that...but that's about as half assed as you could possibly get.
My recommendation:
Do it right, or don't do it. You throw your ITR or CTR ECU in there, with your S2 mani, and keep pinning that SOB to 8800 RPM before shifting, you'll do alright...I mean you'll lose a shitload of time in between 8200 and 8800 RPM, but that's your problem. And obviously, the life of the engine would be decreased.
The redline is the maximum RPM that the engine can handle. Obviously there's a fail-safe of 5 or 600 RPM (sometimes more) so that in case you hit 8300, you don't sling a rod, but it's quite simply NOT meant to operate at 8800 RPM. Two reasons the redline is 8200 RPM. A) Due to the head design, it starts to drop off the torque band, making that 600 RPM useless as hell, B) Go any further and you risk tossing a rod or floating the valves.
PS:
Anybody wanna enlighten me on what the hell a butterfly manifold is? I think you're saying you have the stock throttle body on an S2 manifold (in which case that's a cheap *** / half assed setup that won't net you any real power). I can't say it enough, do it once, do it right. You won't have turbulence in your throttle body, but your OEM throttle body will still restrict air, the best thing to do would be to get a throttle body that's port matched to the inlet port on your intake manifold, so your throttle body doesn't bottleneck it. Then get something like the password JDM intake (whale *****) so you don't suffer from pipe restriction. Even then I wouldn't bother trying to raise the redline to 8800.
To do it right, you'll need a port and polished head just to get the air flow into the head to support that (or you can try putting a B16A2/A3 head on it). If you put a B16 head on it, with more aggressive cams, with a throttle body port matched to the inlet port of your intake manifold, and a whale ***** or other "open" intake, then GET IT TUNED. Don't throw a "Type R basemap" on it - go to a dyno, with Hondata S200 or whatever, Chipped OBD-I ECU, whatever, and get it dyno tuned.
You do that, you'll be able to rev to 8800 and still make power. Though you're still endangering throwing a rod and/or floating the valves (unless you get titanium valve springs (note: Titanium valve springs only last 20-30k)). Just make sure you keep it rich up top.
07-21-2010, 08:13 AM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (ek forever guy)
The reason engines usually don't make power past the redline is air restriction.
Skunk2 IM's are a joke IMO, and with the stock cams it won't make power all the way to 8800 all the way anyways.
I mean you've already made your first mistake when you decided to send your ECU out to get a "Type R" basemap put on it. It's a GSR, it uses a GSR basemap. A Type R motor IS NOT a GSR with a Type R basemap. You'll probably run it rich towards the top of your RPM band, gaining absolutely nothing while burning more fuel..but whatever floats your boat. *sigh* Ricers.
On the flipside, the engine revving to 8800 with a stock cam system in there is no good, plus you risk floating the valves. As the engine won't make as much power there, you'll spend more time getting from 8200 to 8800, than you would getting form 7600, to 8200, it'll start to go out of the torque band.
If you wanna do this right (which you obviously don't because you sent your ECU out to get a Type R basemap put on it (that's half assed, by the way)), you'll put stage 1 or stage 2 cams in there, put titanium valve springs, retainers, and keepers in there, I'd also replace the valve seals while you're in there, but whatever. Then, you need to take it to get dyno tuned. Slapping a larger cam in there would let more air in, but your duty cycle would still be the same, so you'd lean out - the type R ECU might compensate for that...but that's about as half assed as you could possibly get.
My recommendation:
Do it right, or don't do it. You throw your ITR or CTR ECU in there, with your S2 mani, and keep pinning that SOB to 8800 RPM before shifting, you'll do alright...I mean you'll lose a shitload of time in between 8200 and 8800 RPM, but that's your problem. And obviously, the life of the engine would be decreased.
The redline is the maximum RPM that the engine can handle. Obviously there's a fail-safe of 5 or 600 RPM (sometimes more) so that in case you hit 8300, you don't sling a rod, but it's quite simply NOT meant to operate at 8800 RPM. Two reasons the redline is 8200 RPM. A) Due to the head design, it starts to drop off the torque band, making that 600 RPM useless as hell, B) Go any further and you risk tossing a rod or floating the valves.
PS:
Anybody wanna enlighten me on what the hell a butterfly manifold is? I think you're saying you have the stock throttle body on an S2 manifold (in which case that's a cheap *** / half assed setup that won't net you any real power). I can't say it enough, do it once, do it right. You won't have turbulence in your throttle body, but your OEM throttle body will still restrict air, the best thing to do would be to get a throttle body that's port matched to the inlet port on your intake manifold, so your throttle body doesn't bottleneck it. Then get something like the password JDM intake (whale *****) so you don't suffer from pipe restriction. Even then I wouldn't bother trying to raise the redline to 8800.
To do it right, you'll need a port and polished head just to get the air flow into the head to support that (or you can try putting a B16A2/A3 head on it). If you put a B16 head on it, with more aggressive cams, with a throttle body port matched to the inlet port of your intake manifold, and a whale ***** or other "open" intake, then GET IT TUNED. Don't throw a "Type R basemap" on it - go to a dyno, with Hondata S200 or whatever, Chipped OBD-I ECU, whatever, and get it dyno tuned.
You do that, you'll be able to rev to 8800 and still make power. Though you're still endangering throwing a rod and/or floating the valves (unless you get titanium valve springs (note: Titanium valve springs only last 20-30k)). Just make sure you keep it rich up top.
Skunk2 IM's are a joke IMO, and with the stock cams it won't make power all the way to 8800 all the way anyways.
I mean you've already made your first mistake when you decided to send your ECU out to get a "Type R" basemap put on it. It's a GSR, it uses a GSR basemap. A Type R motor IS NOT a GSR with a Type R basemap. You'll probably run it rich towards the top of your RPM band, gaining absolutely nothing while burning more fuel..but whatever floats your boat. *sigh* Ricers.
On the flipside, the engine revving to 8800 with a stock cam system in there is no good, plus you risk floating the valves. As the engine won't make as much power there, you'll spend more time getting from 8200 to 8800, than you would getting form 7600, to 8200, it'll start to go out of the torque band.
If you wanna do this right (which you obviously don't because you sent your ECU out to get a Type R basemap put on it (that's half assed, by the way)), you'll put stage 1 or stage 2 cams in there, put titanium valve springs, retainers, and keepers in there, I'd also replace the valve seals while you're in there, but whatever. Then, you need to take it to get dyno tuned. Slapping a larger cam in there would let more air in, but your duty cycle would still be the same, so you'd lean out - the type R ECU might compensate for that...but that's about as half assed as you could possibly get.
My recommendation:
Do it right, or don't do it. You throw your ITR or CTR ECU in there, with your S2 mani, and keep pinning that SOB to 8800 RPM before shifting, you'll do alright...I mean you'll lose a shitload of time in between 8200 and 8800 RPM, but that's your problem. And obviously, the life of the engine would be decreased.
The redline is the maximum RPM that the engine can handle. Obviously there's a fail-safe of 5 or 600 RPM (sometimes more) so that in case you hit 8300, you don't sling a rod, but it's quite simply NOT meant to operate at 8800 RPM. Two reasons the redline is 8200 RPM. A) Due to the head design, it starts to drop off the torque band, making that 600 RPM useless as hell, B) Go any further and you risk tossing a rod or floating the valves.
PS:
Anybody wanna enlighten me on what the hell a butterfly manifold is? I think you're saying you have the stock throttle body on an S2 manifold (in which case that's a cheap *** / half assed setup that won't net you any real power). I can't say it enough, do it once, do it right. You won't have turbulence in your throttle body, but your OEM throttle body will still restrict air, the best thing to do would be to get a throttle body that's port matched to the inlet port on your intake manifold, so your throttle body doesn't bottleneck it. Then get something like the password JDM intake (whale *****) so you don't suffer from pipe restriction. Even then I wouldn't bother trying to raise the redline to 8800.
To do it right, you'll need a port and polished head just to get the air flow into the head to support that (or you can try putting a B16A2/A3 head on it). If you put a B16 head on it, with more aggressive cams, with a throttle body port matched to the inlet port of your intake manifold, and a whale ***** or other "open" intake, then GET IT TUNED. Don't throw a "Type R basemap" on it - go to a dyno, with Hondata S200 or whatever, Chipped OBD-I ECU, whatever, and get it dyno tuned.
You do that, you'll be able to rev to 8800 and still make power. Though you're still endangering throwing a rod and/or floating the valves (unless you get titanium valve springs (note: Titanium valve springs only last 20-30k)). Just make sure you keep it rich up top.
07-21-2010, 01:14 PM
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Re: Can a stock GSR valvetrain handle 8800RPM?? (ek forever guy)
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