ShaDoWbOi

which cams are the best for the 99-00 si

Targa250R

B-series cams.

If you want suggestions, you'll need to give more information first. What are you looking to spend? What will you be doing with the car? Where in the rev range do you want to make power? Are you going to be upgrading the rest of the valvetrain?

ShaDoWbOi

lets see money is no object. and i got type r manifold headers trying to get new throttle body now. rev range? as much as it can go.

GTlvr82

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ShaDoWbOi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lets see money is no object. and i got type r manifold headers trying to get new throttle body now. rev range? as much as it can go.</TD></TR></TABLE> English doth OWN you in the worst way. The high rev. range isn't always good. You can make plenty of power in 8500rpms and safely too.

rodrez.

There's a lot of different cams out there that work well, but you need to decide where you want your power to be made. For me personally, if I was running a B16, I would only want to concentrate on top end pull, and take advantage of the B16's ability to rev. I would probably go with a set Skunk stage 2's or Jun 3's, with an upgraded valve train and adj sprockets, and a little headwork, as well as bump the compression, and finally a good tuning session. But again, that's what I personally would go with.

GTlvr82

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodrez &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's a lot of different cams out there that work well, but you need to decide where you want your power to be made. For me personally, if I was running a B16, I would only want to concentrate on top end pull, and take advantage of the B16's ability to rev. I would probably go with a set Skunk stage 2's or Jun 3's, with an upgraded valve train and adj sprockets, and a little headwork, as well as bump the compression, and finally a good tuning session. But again, that's what I personally would go with. </TD></TR></TABLE> Would that be within the stock RPM range or would you bump it up a notch?

xJ.SLOTHx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GTlvr82 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Would that be within the stock RPM range or would you bump it up a notch?</TD></TR></TABLE>

it'd be definitley bumped up....to atleast a lil past 9k rpm

GTlvr82

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ian &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

it'd be definitley bumped up....to atleast a lil past 9k rpm</TD></TR></TABLE>
Would you need the bottom end "shored-up" or would that stay stock. I am going to be building my daily driver B16A2 for N/A but I want it reliable within reason.

rodrez.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GTlvr82 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Would you need the bottom end "shored-up" or would that stay stock. I am going to be building my daily driver B16A2 for N/A but I want it reliable within reason.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can use a stock bottom end, taking it to 9k. Not something I would do constantly, but it'll hold up. Just keep in mind, the life of a motor is shortened somewhat by high RPM duty.

137

taken from jdm civic's post form clubsi.com's n/a forum.

YOUR ITR VALVETRAIN QUESTIONS ANSWERED HERE

This is a thread dedicated to the repetative valvetrain questions we frequently see in the NA Tuning forum. Many of teh question you might have will be answered here so take the time and digest this information prior to posting a thread regarding a question that is already answered here.

ITR = Integra Type R
The valvetrain consists of the following

8 Outer Intake Valvesprings
8 Inner Intake Valvesprings
8 Outer Exhaust Valvesprings
8 Inner Exhaust Valvesprings
8 Intake Valves
8 Exhaust Valves
16 Retainers

The valvesprings come with a splash of blue or yellow paint on them from the Honda factory. This is to distinguish the intake springs from the exhaust springs.

Intake Springs = Yellow
Exhaust Springs = Blue

ITR valvetrain will fit into any B series DOHC VTEC head.

When upgrading to a larger cam with more lift and duration than stock B16A or GSR cams, upgrading valvesprings is also recommended in order to handle to additional force the cams inflict.

ITR Valvetrain is safe to use with any of the following cams. Consider that the cams will be tuned and will be kept within the ITR valvetrain threshold and the cams peak power parameters.
Meaning, you do not rev a TODA Spec A to 9500 RPM. Not only will you bind the ITR springs, but you will make no power as the cams lobes are not large enough to maintain any type of power producing capabilities. You will go faster and put more power to the ground, if you shift at or slightly above peak power.

What Are Suitable Camshafts For ITR Valvetrain?

OEM Honda Camshafts
JDM Integra Type R (95.5 - 97)
JDM Integra Type R (98 - 01)
USDM Integra Type R (97)
USDM Integra Type R (98 - 01)
Civic Type R (96 - 97)
Civic Type R (98-00)
* yes I realize a lot of these are the same, lets not try to nit pick and keep things as broad and simple as possible.
It is also perfectly fine to use any other DOHC VTEC B series cams with ITR valvetrain, but you will get back to the point of using springs too stiff for your application, and not going to be making power past redline anyways. The best thing to do is use the stock valvetrain for the stock cams.

Aftermarket Camshafts
TODA Spec A
JUN Type II (2)
Spoon Sports
Skunk2 Stage 1
* possibly others that are un named, check out the specs in the cam guide and if similar to the specs of these aftermarket cams "within reason", than assume so or post regarding their valvetrain requirements

Can I Use My Mugen or Spoon Valvetrain With The Camshafts Listed Above?

Most definately. Mugen & Spoon are sister tuning companies of Honda, meaning that a lot of their products are produced by or with Honda.
Speculations regarding Mugen's valvesprings and their differences from the stock ITR valvesprings ahve been claimed. Nothing has yet to be proven enough to convince this individual. They are equally as good as ITR valvesprings if not slightly better. It is rumoured that they may be lighter weight, or slightly different in their exterior coating. Again, no speculations have been "proven" thus far.

I Am On A Budget And Cannot Afford ITR Springs, Is There Anything I Can Do To Run The Cams Listed Above?

Personally I do not think the installation of aftermarket cams should be done on stock B16A or GSR valvetrain. To experience the full benefits of the camshafts you will need to tune them and rev them beyond the 8200 limiter.
I also do not like to "half-***" anything internally on my engine. In my personal opinion an NA build should be done properly, and if that means spending an extra $200 on valvesprings now, oppose to $1000+ to port & polish and repair my damaged cylinder head later, than I will do so. Its your engine though and you can do what you please.

Here is what you can do if you already have a B16A or GSR. It has been tried and tested, and yes it does work with very few failures reported over the years.

The ITR Exhaust (blue) valvesprings are the equivelant to the B16A INTAKE springs, and are IDENTICAL to the GSR INTAKE springs. This is all according to Acura/Honda part #'s which do not lie.

So what does this all mean, if I have a B16A/GSR and am putting in cams?

You will tranfser your B16A/GSR Intake springs (both inner and outer, 16 total) to the exhaust side of the head. Now you must purchase the ITR Intake springs (both inner and outer, 16 in total) and place them on the intake side of the head. You will keep your stock B16A/GSR retainers and they will fit just fine.

Do I Need To Buy Valvesprings At All?

You can....... But you will have to maintain a stock redline, and be conservative on tuning. The midrage that the cams offer should be okay for stock valvesprings, but the top end will simply crush stock springs.

Again I recommend at least going with the ITR intake, B16A Intake setup as a bare minimum.

What Retainers Should I Use, Or Are Stock Ones Fine?

The choice of retainers is fairly easy. If you plan to stay under 9000 RPM, than stock ITR retainers will be fine. If you wish to rev higher it is recommended to go with a Titanium retainer from an aftermarket company (Ferrea, TODA, JUN, Skunk2 etc...)

Titanium retainers are lighter and stiffer than stock retainers. They like to be reved high and are widely used in larger cam applications. They do have a wear and tear factor that is not as durbale as the OEM retainers.

Nitrade Coatings have been experimented with to help the retainer from scarring or "pitting". If you request mre information than this brief summary on retainers, than please post so. I do not personally know a lot about them.

So I Got My Cams, Valvesprings, Retainers, And They Are Installed. Now What?

With any engine modification you must tune the engine and its management system (ECU) to respond to the changes.

In order to get the best performance out of these aftermarket cams you will need the following.

Adjustable Cam Gears (get the same manufacturer as your cams)
ECU Upgrade (re-chipped OBD1 ECU with appropriate program, Jumper Harness + OBD1 Chipped ECU for OBD2 Users, CTR ECU for OBD2 Users, or a more advanced tuning system like a Hondata or AEM)
Fuel Pressure Regulator
VTEC Controller (VAFC) Fields and Apexi are among the most popular.
DYNO TIME & Butt Dyno (road testing) plays with fuel pressure yourself and play with teh VAFC. Start conservative and progress from there. You will be able to notice a difference when you change things.

What About Additional Modifications I Need To Feel The Benefits Of These Cams? Valves?

Induction System - You will need to bring in more air than your stock filter and airbox will give you. Many people choose a simple intake or icebox. Some go hog *** wild and buy an ARC Induction Box. You get what you pay for, but under most cases a simple intake such as a J's Racing or Comptech Icebox will do nicely.

Header - If you do not have a header that will flow exhauts fumes from the head quicker than stock or a POS USDM DC than you better get one now. Most people opt for a 2.5" collector. This is also know as a JDM header design. 4-2-1 will pull you more midrange and IMO is a better header all around compared to its counterpart a 4-1. If you have money to spend look towards a Spoon, Toda, Mugen etc... If you are on a budget go for an OEM JDM ITR, or a JDM DC 4-1. These are on average $500 cheaper than the Spoon etc. But will make less power, and not look as bling!

Exhaust - 2.5" is best for an NA build. If you are using ITR cams or better than 2.5" will be perfect. Look for a madrel bent exhaust in stainless steel. It will outlast aluminized and isn't too much more to afford. Many muffler shops can make you piping or you can buy from any manufacturer you like the design of. Personally I'm a large fan of the Mugen Twin Loop, and the SMSP.

Hi-Flow Cat or Test Pipe - Match it to your header and exhaust. http://www.testpipes.com or look for a carsound catalytic converter. Both are offered in 2.5" or 2.25" if you choose.

The above information is all you "really" need to feel the cams and enjoy them. Obviosuly the next step will be to build the block for more compression and port the head for more flow. We are getting ahead of ourselves here and this isn't what the thread is about so we must seize.

What Type Of Power Can I Expect From The Cams Listed Above?

This is a very broad question. All the cams above are designed a little bit differently. For example. The Toda A will make very nice midrange but will not produce the same top end as the Skunk2 Stage 1. They are profiled differently. This is where you need to look at a dyno chart/graph and see where the cams peak, where they start to pull more power than stock, and this way you can help decide on which cams you want to go with.

A lot of people like midrange for daily driving, because the car feels strong up to the VTEC crossover where VTEC will pull the top end. Others like a top end screamer. A Skunk2 Stage 1 cam will have similar profiles to an ITR cam with about equal midrange, the top end however will pull harder and longer than an ITR cam.

Again reading dyno charts and further researching independantly will help you drastically in your decision.

Final thoughts

Before even thinking of cams or an NA build altogether, there are a few things you must remember.
1) The power will not come overnight. An NA build is a process, it is not a bolt on JRSC that will give you 50whp.
2) Mild cams that use ITR valvetrain may not be "enough" for the person in quest of 12's or the extreme speed junkie
3) If you do not tune them properly, you will not make any power, and your car will run like ****. We cannot stress tunign enough.
4) With any modification such as cams, you need to make sure proper maintenece is done and that a routine checkup for things such as cam gear bolts being tight, timing belt wear, valve adjustments, and teh all mighty frequent oil change.

If you do choose to install cams however you will feel the exhiliration of a smooth midrange all the way up to a marval VTEC crossover that will literally "snap" the slience and allow your B series engine to sing her favourite song all the way up until 8600 RPM (considering you have already tuned to this RPM and know you make power here. Remember what we talked about ) Cams rank very high on my list of worthy modifications. After riding on JUN 3's I know what cams are capable of, and just how much a few lobes can make a difference.

Good Luck & Keep Tuning!

Regards
Cal

PinchE NegRo

hey 137 where did u get that info from...???

137

read the whole post again

rodrez.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EK-TUNED &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey 137 where did u get that info from...???</TD></TR></TABLE>

QUOTE: taken from jdm civic's post form clubsi.com's n/a forum. QUOTE