c-pillar bar question
11-03-2004, 01:52 PM
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c-pillar bar question
i'm looking for at a c-pillar bar for my ek, i notice when installed the bar hangs right over the rear seats to the seat belt brackets, is that a problem for people riding in the back?
Modified by bboy at 1:34 PM 11/4/2004
Modified by bboy at 1:35 PM 11/4/2004
Modified by bboy at 1:34 PM 11/4/2004
Modified by bboy at 1:35 PM 11/4/2004
11-04-2004, 12:55 PM
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Re: (sohcvtec1995)
i had no problem with mine when i had backseats..never got in the way of any headroom.. any1 who was sittin back there usually used it to hang on for dear life 
11-04-2004, 08:40 PM
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Re: (jay.dee.em1)
haha, sounds like a good idea. instead of the c-pillar bar for suspension and chassis flex, it is meant for holding on for dear life while the driver is speeding... i like that 
...now this brings me to my next question, where can i get this exact jspec 3-pcs c-pillar bar besides JHPUSA and jspec, i e-mailed them and they never replied, so i'm thinking maybe they discontinued them or don't have any in stock anymore?
...now this brings me to my next question, where can i get this exact jspec 3-pcs c-pillar bar besides JHPUSA and jspec, i e-mailed them and they never replied, so i'm thinking maybe they discontinued them or don't have any in stock anymore?
11-04-2004, 08:46 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (bboy)
Taken from the welding section
Picture 1: A cross section of a parked car with a B-pillar installed. Woooooo purty!! Hey, where are the triangles? We don't need no stinking triangles cuz it's purty!
Picture 2: A picture of a chassis showing which way the chassis would flex. See the lenght of the pillar bar? It's still the same lenght as when it's parked. It just moves with both pillars side to side. That means the bar isn't experiencing any strain in the lenght direction of the bar. So it's doing absoluting nothing.
Picture 3: Yeah, a pillar bar CAN work, but it only works in the direction it's being stretched or compressed. If the B or C pillar wanted to BOW out, then the bar will work to stop the pillars from bowing because the bar would have to stretch if the pillars were bowing out. We only have one problem here... the pillars DON'T bow out. So, dude, the pillar bar does nothing but look purty.
A pillar bar that WOULD work would tie up the opposite corners of the chassis like the picture below. See the triangles?
C pillar bars do nothing.
Modified by 90blackcrx at 8:25 PM 11/6/2004
Picture 1: A cross section of a parked car with a B-pillar installed. Woooooo purty!! Hey, where are the triangles? We don't need no stinking triangles cuz it's purty!
Picture 2: A picture of a chassis showing which way the chassis would flex. See the lenght of the pillar bar? It's still the same lenght as when it's parked. It just moves with both pillars side to side. That means the bar isn't experiencing any strain in the lenght direction of the bar. So it's doing absoluting nothing.
Picture 3: Yeah, a pillar bar CAN work, but it only works in the direction it's being stretched or compressed. If the B or C pillar wanted to BOW out, then the bar will work to stop the pillars from bowing because the bar would have to stretch if the pillars were bowing out. We only have one problem here... the pillars DON'T bow out. So, dude, the pillar bar does nothing but look purty.
A pillar bar that WOULD work would tie up the opposite corners of the chassis like the picture below. See the triangles?
C pillar bars do nothing.
Modified by 90blackcrx at 8:25 PM 11/6/2004
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11-04-2004, 09:07 PM
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11-04-2004, 09:11 PM
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Re: (bboy)
camp1320.com sells them. they wont to **** to help with chassi flex. but i wouldn't let passangers sit back there, you slam on the brakes or get into an accident, and they get FUCKN OWNED
11-04-2004, 10:28 PM
#11
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Re: (slammed_93_hatch)
Actually testing has shown that a B pillar bar is one of the most effective bracing techniques in a hatchback except for bracing the frame rails (Handling - Honda Civic CXi, AutoSalon Magazine, August 2003). More effective than a strut tower brace, more effective than a lower tie bar. Just goes to show that LOGIC is no substitute for science. There are factors that you're not even aware of.
http://www.whiteline.com.au/im...2.jpg
Substitute B pillar for C pillar in your 2 dimensional diagram and you have the same logic. What makes you think that in a turn, both the drivers side and passenger side c pillars move parallel? Actually the unibody twists, which puts a rotational load on the c or b pillar bar.
Unfortunately on a 6th gen, you can't have rear passengers because it puts them at high risk of head injury. On a 5th gen, the rear seat belt mounting may be far back enough not to pose a risk to rear passengers with a c pillar brace installed, but I make that judgement just by eyeballing it and I haven't actually test fit one. In either case, your view out the rear window is diminished.
I got an autopower roll bar with spacers moving it all the way up to the roofline, with BSCI padding and a custom floor bar, but that's just me.
http://www.whiteline.com.au/im...2.jpg
Substitute B pillar for C pillar in your 2 dimensional diagram and you have the same logic. What makes you think that in a turn, both the drivers side and passenger side c pillars move parallel? Actually the unibody twists, which puts a rotational load on the c or b pillar bar.
Unfortunately on a 6th gen, you can't have rear passengers because it puts them at high risk of head injury. On a 5th gen, the rear seat belt mounting may be far back enough not to pose a risk to rear passengers with a c pillar brace installed, but I make that judgement just by eyeballing it and I haven't actually test fit one. In either case, your view out the rear window is diminished.
I got an autopower roll bar with spacers moving it all the way up to the roofline, with BSCI padding and a custom floor bar, but that's just me.
11-04-2004, 10:56 PM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (shaundrake)
I took the pic from the welding section, there are some people in there that know there stuff when it comes to roll cages.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=990889
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=990889
11-04-2004, 11:33 PM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (shaundrake)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Just goes to show that LOGIC is no substitute for science. </TD></TR></TABLE>
aside from the fact that "Logic" is the basis for the scientific process......
wow. there wasn't any "science" in that article. they noticed a "phenomenal" difference. there was no testing to determine any increase in torsional stiffness. 90blackcrx's diagrams are mostly right, completely correct if you assume that the connection are "pinned". pinned connections cannot resist moment forces. now if the connections are rigid, then forces can be transfered. however, since the C pillar is pretty well framed already, a c pillar bar seems pretty useless. the b pillar is wide open and can benefit greatly from bracing.
aside from the fact that "Logic" is the basis for the scientific process......
wow. there wasn't any "science" in that article. they noticed a "phenomenal" difference. there was no testing to determine any increase in torsional stiffness. 90blackcrx's diagrams are mostly right, completely correct if you assume that the connection are "pinned". pinned connections cannot resist moment forces. now if the connections are rigid, then forces can be transfered. however, since the C pillar is pretty well framed already, a c pillar bar seems pretty useless. the b pillar is wide open and can benefit greatly from bracing.
11-04-2004, 11:58 PM
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Re: (dantastic)
imo c-pillar bars are pretty dangerous if you're going to have passengers in the rear. just imagine how hard someones head is gonna bounce off of the c-pillar bar if someone rear ended you with a decent amount of speed.
11-05-2004, 12:02 AM
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Re: (AzntaggeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AzntaggeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">imo c-pillar bars are pretty dangerous if you're going to have passengers in the rear. just imagine how hard someones head is gonna bounce off of the c-pillar bar if someone rear ended you with a decent amount of speed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
in my dad's old 91 frod f-250, with the bench seats in the back, my head would always hit the window under hard braking. FUCKN SUCKS. No way i would want to hit a nice small peace of metal
in my dad's old 91 frod f-250, with the bench seats in the back, my head would always hit the window under hard braking. FUCKN SUCKS. No way i would want to hit a nice small peace of metal
11-05-2004, 04:46 AM
#18
Re: (bboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...now this brings me to my next question, where can i get this exact jspec 3-pcs c-pillar bar besides JHPUSA and jspec, i e-mailed them and they never replied, so i'm thinking maybe they discontinued them or don't have any in stock anymore?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
got mine from Sosoxgino https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=869414 Jspec doesn't carry them any more
here is a pic of my riced out POS with the B2C bar(s) (not the best pic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AzntaggeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">imo c-pillar bars are pretty dangerous if you're going to have passengers in the rear. just imagine how hard someones head is gonna bounce off of the c-pillar bar if someone rear ended you with a decent amount of speed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you have to be a tall motherF'r to head your head on that one ^ (B2C bars) -at least the C-pillar section lol
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90blackcrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Picture 2: A picture of a chassis showing which way the chassis would flex. See the lenght of the pillar bar? It's still the same lenght as when it's parked. It just moves with both pillars side to side. That means the bar isn't experiencing any strain in the lenght direction of the bar. So it's doing absoluting nothing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
who is to say your **** is going to stay perpendicular without a C-pillar bar...its called chassis flex where loads can basically (don't get me wrong - most of the time "slightly") twist the frame
call me a ricer but I noticed a difference when i installed the B2C bars
Modified by adirondackR at 9:10 AM 11/5/2004
...now this brings me to my next question, where can i get this exact jspec 3-pcs c-pillar bar besides JHPUSA and jspec, i e-mailed them and they never replied, so i'm thinking maybe they discontinued them or don't have any in stock anymore?
</TD></TR></TABLE>got mine from Sosoxgino https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=869414 Jspec doesn't carry them any more
here is a pic of my riced out POS with the B2C bar(s) (not the best pic
)<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AzntaggeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">imo c-pillar bars are pretty dangerous if you're going to have passengers in the rear. just imagine how hard someones head is gonna bounce off of the c-pillar bar if someone rear ended you with a decent amount of speed.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you have to be a tall motherF'r to head your head on that one ^ (B2C bars) -at least the C-pillar section
lol<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90blackcrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Picture 2: A picture of a chassis showing which way the chassis would flex. See the lenght of the pillar bar? It's still the same lenght as when it's parked. It just moves with both pillars side to side. That means the bar isn't experiencing any strain in the lenght direction of the bar. So it's doing absoluting nothing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
who is to say your **** is going to stay perpendicular without a C-pillar bar...its called chassis flex where loads can basically (don't get me wrong - most of the time "slightly") twist the frame
call me a ricer but I noticed a difference when i installed the B2C bars
Modified by adirondackR at 9:10 AM 11/5/2004
11-05-2004, 04:52 AM
#19
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Re: c-pillar bar question (bboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i'm looking for at a c-pillar bar for my ek, i notice when installed the bar hangs right over the rear seats to the seat belt brackets, is that a problem for people riding in the back?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If it isn't a problem for them just sitting there, it will be a problem when you get rear ended, they get their heads bashed in, and then they sue you for installing that worthless piece of **** into your car . . .
How "convenient," it bolts right up to the existing seat belt mounting points, too
If it isn't a problem for them just sitting there, it will be a problem when you get rear ended, they get their heads bashed in, and then they sue you for installing that worthless piece of **** into your car . . .
How "convenient," it bolts right up to the existing seat belt mounting points, too
11-05-2004, 09:42 PM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: c-pillar bar question (Targa250R)
Convenient and smart, since that point is reinforced to take a lot of load.
Logic alone is not scientific. Logic alone is for philosophers. Scientists have this thing called the scientific method and it doesn't involve working out your theory on photoshop.
Sorry my article doesn't give the complete picture. It's referring to testing that had already been done, and the original testing article is there in the Whiteline archives somewhere. I could dig down there if I'm going to do a research paper but oh well it's just honda tech, not like your mind is going to change unless I photoshop something up for you.
I say again, the chassis TWISTS. It would be pretty funny if both sides of your car tipped parallel like that from cornering load, and your roof and floor adhered to the same plane. But logically... that just doesn't make sense.
Use that same logic to explain how swaybars work. Oh well I guess those are just for show too. Internet welders and fabricators are so smart! My dad is a highly skilled welder for military ships and he's a highschool dropout. Let's go ask him what he thinks. No thanks I'll go ask an engineer in a related field.
Logic alone is not scientific. Logic alone is for philosophers. Scientists have this thing called the scientific method and it doesn't involve working out your theory on photoshop.
Sorry my article doesn't give the complete picture. It's referring to testing that had already been done, and the original testing article is there in the Whiteline archives somewhere. I could dig down there if I'm going to do a research paper but oh well it's just honda tech, not like your mind is going to change unless I photoshop something up for you.
I say again, the chassis TWISTS. It would be pretty funny if both sides of your car tipped parallel like that from cornering load, and your roof and floor adhered to the same plane. But logically... that just doesn't make sense.
Use that same logic to explain how swaybars work. Oh well I guess those are just for show too. Internet welders and fabricators are so smart! My dad is a highly skilled welder for military ships and he's a highschool dropout. Let's go ask him what he thinks. No thanks I'll go ask an engineer in a related field.
11-06-2004, 02:09 PM
#22
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Re: (90blackcrx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ha ha the pillar bar in the second diagram is longer than in the first. Already proves everything right there!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90blackcrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Picture 1: A cross section of a parked car with a B-pillar installed. Woooooo purty!! Hey, where are the triangles? We don't need no stinking triangles cuz it's purty!
Picture 2: A picture of a chassis showing which way the chassis would flex. See the lenght of the pillar bar? It's still the same lenght as when it's parked. It just moves with both pillars side to side. That means the bar isn't experiencing any strain in the lenght direction of the bar. So it's doing absoluting nothing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
this guy doesn't know what he's talking about...
and he needs to retake english as well
</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90blackcrx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Picture 1: A cross section of a parked car with a B-pillar installed. Woooooo purty!! Hey, where are the triangles? We don't need no stinking triangles cuz it's purty!
Picture 2: A picture of a chassis showing which way the chassis would flex. See the lenght of the pillar bar? It's still the same lenght as when it's parked. It just moves with both pillars side to side. That means the bar isn't experiencing any strain in the lenght direction of the bar. So it's doing absoluting nothing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
this guy doesn't know what he's talking about...
and he needs to retake english as well
11-10-2004, 09:25 PM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (bboy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bboy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
this guy doesn't know what he's talking about...
and he needs to retake english as well</TD></TR></TABLE>
Actually the guy does, I did not write any of that. I copied and pasted it from the welding forum, form this post
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=990889
He's built this
What have you built ? He is also an engineer, what credentials do you have ?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually testing has shown that a B pillar bar is one of the most effective bracing techniques in a hatchback except for bracing the frame rails (Handling - Honda Civic CXi, AutoSalon Magazine, August 2003). More effective than a strut tower brace, more effective than a lower tie bar. Just goes to show that LOGIC is no substitute for science. There are factors that you're not even aware of.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So since you read it in a magazine that means it has to be true ? I'm not gonna get any scientific information from autosalon.
this guy doesn't know what he's talking about...
and he needs to retake english as well
</TD></TR></TABLE>Actually the guy does, I did not write any of that. I copied and pasted it from the welding forum, form this post
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=990889
He's built this
What have you built ? He is also an engineer, what credentials do you have ?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shaundrake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Actually testing has shown that a B pillar bar is one of the most effective bracing techniques in a hatchback except for bracing the frame rails (Handling - Honda Civic CXi, AutoSalon Magazine, August 2003). More effective than a strut tower brace, more effective than a lower tie bar. Just goes to show that LOGIC is no substitute for science. There are factors that you're not even aware of.</TD></TR></TABLE>
So since you read it in a magazine that means it has to be true ? I'm not gonna get any scientific information from autosalon.
11-10-2004, 09:52 PM
#25
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Re: (90blackcrx)
the only time anyone has ever sat in the back seat of my car is when my mommy did when i first bought the car 3 years ago....
backseaters = ******* gay
backseaters = ******* gay