tony_2018

how long has the car been sitting?

TomCat39

Not long, and I did take her for a solid spin yesterday and no change. Motor has 284,000 kilometers which isn't that much but not super low either. No CEL's and the CEL operates normally with fuel pump prime etc. I should probably add, the car has been started and run at least twice a month for the last couple of months of working on her. Whether to bleed the cooling system or to run the car listening to tranny, motor with stethoscope etc.

When I say rough, not like misfire. Still very consistent firing, just more noisy running until higher rpm. I tend to think it's just the sound of the motor running on 12 instead of 16 valve. Lean burn firing prolly sounds a bit different.

Wasn't noticed when car was bought being there was a short ram and no muffler so all you heard was exhaust, couldn't hear the motor. Ever since getting the air box back in and getting the muffler in place, you can actually hear the car. And the sound to me sounds similar to piston slap but all 4 not just one cylinder.

tony_2018

I think what you're experiencing is that the engine is running only on 3 valves in each cylinder until you go past 3k rpms, thats when all 4 valves are operating like normal. The valve that is disengage is one of the intake valves.

TomCat39

My thoughts too. Just wanted to confirm the motor sounds a little different at this stage as I'm not familiar with it and I tend to hear much from the cars. So much so I wasted money on my first Honda being paranoid with the sounds I was hearing. Don't want to go that road again for a new sounding motor. :D

tony_2018

I don't know d-series that well. The d15z7 was my 1st, fun car if I keep it revving high, great mpg, even better if I find non-eth (which I do have in Louisiana, only).

tony_2018

To give a bit more on my findings on dual ecu setup with a 99-00 civic the PCM side of the ecu needed some engine sensors to function. I think it was bout 3 or 4 sensors that it needed data. So I spliced what was needed and left the rest to the d5z7 ecu. I still have my concerns because sometimes it would take a while before eco mode would kick in, or the LED would light up vs using a 5spd and it would kick on when I'm cruising immediately. But the tranny shifted up/down smoothly.

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

You'll find there's a slight hesitation at VTEC-E switchover, too. This is normal but some people think the motor is running funny.

TomCat39

Yeah I noticed that, it feels like the car is stuttering or going to die sometimes but I believe its the ECU caught in a spot of switching back and forth. I also have to get used to the lack of power in 12 valve mode. Feels like something is wrong but it's just the high economy lean burn. Once above 2500 rpm and enough throttle and load, 16 valve kicks in and the power just jumps massively.

Definitely a learning experience.

Thanks deschlong and Tony, it's not something one is expecting if they haven't ever experienced it before.

chrysler kid

Mine in the d16y5 only sounded different because of the idle air control valve. I never noticed any rough cross over because the y5 changed to 16valve at 3500 rpms and at a certain throttle position.

The z1 was known for its jerkiness in between cross overs though. It should not feel like its dying though. You may just be noticing engine vibrations at idle which is common. Some one once posted on the d15 there is an engine mount torquing procedure

chrysler kid

Also make sure the egr valve passages are clean, the 12valve and lean burn rely heavily on the Egr for extra air.

I'm not sure about the z1, but the y5 had different ecus for California and national cars. I believe the z1 also had a California ecu, again I'm not sure about Canadian air quality so Canadian models may have the California ecu?

tony_2018

Like i said, can't expect any performance out of these engines, just take a long cruise and enjoy the mpg on some winding roads.

TomCat39

Yeah, a bit of a learning curve, especially since I've been driving the tuned K20Z3 for the past couple of months.

I still think the motor is in rougher shape than I had hoped. I have a hard time believing it's supposed to sound how it sounds. This weekend, I'll verify rod bearings by doing the push down test and then maybe listen at 2000 rpm with the stethoscope.

Once in awhile the noisyness vanishes and it sounds like a normal Honda motor in low RPM so I am wondering if the cylinders are out of round enough to cause near constant piston slap in lower rpm's. I don't think it's rod knock but if it slowly gets louder over time, it just might be. No CEL's and the fuel seems pretty decent for being on the DX gearing. Anxd I'm pretty sure piston slap can run a long time before becoming a real problem especially on low load type driving of fuel economy focus.

I wish there was another VX around that I could take a ride in and listen too. I hate my tone sensitive hard of hearing ears sometimes. I probably should keep my eye open for a D15Z1 motor. Be good to have a back up for the time this one does need a rebuild.

Tonight I aimed my headlights since I put new Stanley lenses in just before buttoning her up. Only been daytime driving so not that big of a deal but now she's good for night time too.

TomCat39

I was thinking about the EGR. Thinking I should give her a clean.

As far as I know Canada has has the 49 state equivalent ECU. Cali VX has the 4 wire O2 narrow band heated like the DX/LX and Si. Canada and 49 state uses the 5 wire wide band expensive O2 and has true lean burn mode. Cali doesn't get the same fuel economy.

And I believe you are right, I'm feeling the vibration changes when it drops in idle at a light and it feels like she's sputtering but she's not. Just going full lean methinks.

The sound on the other hand is especially prominent on take off and I honestly think it's piston slap. This weekend I was going to rule out rod knock. Car almost sounds like a diesel when loaded but idle sounds pretty normal. Higher RPM sounds more normal. Seems to be in the 1500-3500 rpm range it sounds off from what I know Honda motors sound like.

I have definitely noticed the jerky transitions. Not always but many times and it initially makes you think something is wrong until you get used to it.

I also noticed my up shift light comes on even with light throttle cruising. You almost have to not be any gas to keep it off even though it's still running in 12 valve mode at 1500 or 2000 rpm. I just shift normally at 2500 rpm and don't bother with the shift light. Another thing to get used to. heh.

TomCat39

Well, my paranoia got to me today and I pulled the spark plugs, put each piston to tdc and started to let it drop and I tried pushing down on the piston. None of them moved. I redid my compression test and I was able to get 180 or just over on every cylinder in 5 cranks. All 5 spark plugs looked pretty good for the past week 4 days of driving, highway and in town. #4 had a touch of black carbon deposit on the porcelain so one or two fo the valve seals might be beginning to leak. I also have a metal chirping (cricket like) sound when driving that I cannot get to happen when parked but I can get it after it starts when driving and after pushing in the clutch. It sort of coincides with rpm but not 1:1. That one is going to drive me nuts as I can not repeat when not driving. I think it might be in the head. Not sure if the rollers on the roller rockers can go bad or if maybe it's LMA's that need cleaning etc.

I took a video of the motor running of what sounds like rough motor. About 30 seconds in I can lightly pop the gas multiple times to get the sound clearly. To me it sounds like bad piston slap but might just be lean burn action as it's usually motor under some load from roughly 1500 rpm to 3000 rpm or so that it's the loudest.

You take a listen and share your thoughts if you'd be so kind. It's a 46 second video so not long.

chrysler kid

Sounds like an exhaust leak

D-series arent exactly known to be silent motors, id say its within acceptable tolerances. Should just sounds like a sewing machine.

TomCat39

@chrysler kid did you get to the 30-45 second mark where it sounds strongly of knocking everytime I kicked the throttle a bit?

I'll look again but wouldn't an exhaust leak leave a tell tale sign of black carbon at the leak site?

For this car it could only be at the head or after the cat which just got a brand new seal so is highly unlikely there. Beyond that it wouldn't be sounding like it was coming from the motor itself. I can also check the flex gasket underneath, that might just do it too methinks.

TomCat39

I'm not a fan of how the engine sounds but I will drive it until it dies.

Today I went to pick a part and picked up 2 SI door cards, the large square empty face plate for the left side of the dash under the dimmer switch. Mine had a hole cut into it for the non working AFR gauge. Two wipers for a buck each and a decent alternator belt as mine is cracked. I also nabbed a handful of the cowl push pins as Honda charges 10 bucks each for those new, 3 of those and 3 of the other clips on the cowl cost me 58 bucks after tax. I will be stocking up on those each time I go to pick a part now, that's too bloody expensive for what they are.

I also grabbed the rear washer stalk switch with the extra plug my harness is missing. The collection begins to eventually add rear washer/wiper to the VX.

Also driving around in the rain, the sunroof is still dripping in so I need to retape it as the old tape isn't doing the job thoroughly. I was pricing sunroofs and it's about 200 USD for one to replace this one that will work. So thats more like 300 CAD once shipping, duty/tax and conversion is all factored in. Will be awhile before I can do that.

The other night (Friday or Saturday night) I aimed the head lights and got them adjusted properly two inches down and two inches to the right of headlight center.

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

I believe you complained about others modifying VXs with non VX parts but you've been doing the same. Why didn't you just buy a DX?

tony_2018

I watched the video and didn't here any metal on metal at the 35 sec mark. Also it seems a bit chatty at idle.

chrysler kid

Hard to pinpoint, drive it for a while and see if it gets worse as the engine warms up. It sounds like gasket tick more than knock.




Ive also had low oil pressure from a leaky rear main seal cause oil pressure issues and cause a noisy top end when warm. But you dont have any miles on the build so far, so id recommend running some miles on it to check for more issues or to see if it gets worse or better.

I don't remember which car it was that I had, but a bad alternator was once the cause of my ticking noise at idle. You can use a mechanics stethoscope to help pinpoint the location and ifnit is metal on metal. I usually do use an oil additive on neglected enginges, typically motor honey or mystery oil to clean out oil varnish that can collect in the oil passageways in the head

TomCat39

If you notice I'm adding OEM upgrades but keeping it as a VX retaining value.

I was talking about taking a VX and turning it into a race car which devalues the vehicle as a collectible.

My car already had a sunroof so not a whole lot I can do about that, the rest is easily reversible if a collector doesn't want the OEM upgrades. I don't think the OEM upgrades reduces collect-ability. I could be wrong and can adjust if I decide it's time to sell the car. I do know motor swaps do reduce collect-ability, as well as aftermarket suspension does etc.

On the plus side, there is not VIN stamps on motors and trannies of this year so you can put in other of the same motor and tranny and it probably doesn't affect value. I don't think anyone has access to a Honda serial database to confirm "numbers matching".

The VX is a pretty rare car so I get a little sad when one gets turned into a race car as I know it will never be a VX again. That makes one less rare car. Hell, I was sad to see how mine was riced out. I was surprised it had the original motor and tranny. It's been a chore reversing what was done.

I guess the plus side is it makes mine that much more valuable as so few survive or kept relatively unmolested as a VX.

And as the cost of fuel goes up, the value of the good running VX's will continue to rise. Possibly even surpass Si's of the era.

TomCat39

It's always there but lessens a little once warm but still there. I also poked around under the car with it running and could not smell any exhaust. As well don't smell any exhaust ever around the engine at all.

I'm going to add some Lucas Heavy duty Oil Stabilizer to thicken the oil up and see if there is any change. I didn't hear anything like this when I bought it, only after I changed the oil and put in 5w30 oil. If my suspicions are correct, I believe the previous owner was using heavier weight motor oil. The only positive I've seen with this car is the compression numbers are good.

Chrisfrom1986

iTrader: (1)

I know what you're saying, I was just kind of poking at you a bit because your really turning the chassis into a DX, regardless of the engine staying the same. The roof cap is also somewhat easily replaceable these cars, you could find a wrecked DX and restore the roof to its original hardtop. I may have an extra rear wiper setup if you want to continue your DX conversion though

TomCat39

Could be a CDM CX conversion too. Some of our CX's had rear wiper and handles. I had to add the handle to my wife's DX. Also, the other reason I went with the VX was for the fuel economy to force me to not be so heavy footed. Even on my CX I ran it like a banshee. The VX just doesn't do it. This will save me from more tickets etc. Also the VIN says VX so I can sell it at the higher price if the car is clean and has the VX motor and Trans.

I think there may be some confusion regarding my video. The video was regarding knock, whether it be piston slap, wrist pin or bearing knock. The metal chirping I mentioned only happens when car gets fully warm and I'm driving 50-60 KPH. By the time I get to my driveway it's gone and I cannot get it to reproduce when not moving so I won't get a video of it. Might be pilot bearing or tranny related or maybe I spun a bearing? I dunno.

I added a full 946ml bottle of lucas oil stabilizer (honey) and it's a touch quieter but it is too late methinks. I can now hear the knock at idle when warm. Poking around with the stethoscope it seems most prominent (yet still not loud) at the bottom of #3... The head sounds good, just the usual valve tick and the knock isn't very noticable anywhere at the top of the block. This is all when idling.

I had the thought of just replacing all the bearings with the colors corresponding from factory but I'm not sure if it's being caught early enough to assume no material loss on the journals. Nor do I know if you can successfully torque the girdle from underneath properly. Rod caps maybe okay but not sure on the mains. Knowing my luck it's a wrist pin issue.... All of this is bothersome as I am strapped for cash and really need the extra fuel economy of the VX. I just hit 600 KM on less than 38 liters of gas with mixed in town and highway driving on a DX trans... Wouldn't come close to that in my Si....

Looks like I have to put the insurance back on the more expensive to run Si....

tony_2018

****......