vtecgod

honda tech mems need some input from you guys i have a civic dx converted it to an si but i wanted some new brakes i have a rear disc conv for it haven't put that on yet. but i wanted to upgrade the front with the big brake setup cannot get a good price on one. what setup should i do i wanted the big setup because i want the show look. should i go with some brembo's. what should i do? keep the oem calipers and upgrade the pads and rotors or what?

Ricey McRicerton

As far as a big brake setup, you don't really need it. You said you wanted it for show purposes, so by all means, go for it, but upgrading your pads on your stock rotors/calipers will be more than enough with some good fluid for track use.

I like the fastbrakes kit for a big brake setup though. Looks good, but you've got to be careful about what size rims you have.

Marauder

For good brakes that look better, I would:

1) paint/powdercoat your caliper and bracket
2) brembo rotors with slots
3) good pads (EBC pads work great and leave minimal dust)
4) steel braided brake lines

Lil Red CRXsi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecgod &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honda tech mems need some input from you guys i have a civic dx converted it to an si but i wanted some new brakes i have a rear disc conv for it haven't put that on yet.

</TD></TR></TABLE>
And you gave me hell about my gauges,lol-Dam you had had that setup for years.

vtecgod

thanks for the info guys appreciate it i will keep that in mind about the brake setup got to do something though can't stop since the accident with the civ. how much is the brembo slotted and drilled rotors cost are they oem size or a little bigger.

Ricey McRicerton

IMHO, drilled and slotted rotors are a waste. I'd just go with Brembo blanks. The drilled rotors (not cast with the holes in them) are prone to cracking and the slotted rotors just tear up pads.

Marauder

I'd only get slotted rotors, since they prevent the pads from glazing, but will wear the pad slightly more. Pads don't have degassing problems anymore, so no need for drilled rotors, except if you have a serious racecar and need lighter weight.

The Brembo slotted rotors go for about $110 a pair. They are more than blanks cause of the slots, but also because they have a plating on them so they wont rust like the blank rotors will.

vtecgod

so the drilled and slotted rotors will mess up the braking process and eat up the pads quicker. do they make them in a bigger size an not a oem size so i can use the relocator with the caliper.

94HatchbackSI

I'd listen to Rice.

Get some cross drilled rotors and Kragen pads with a life time warranty.

s0ulless

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94HatchbackSI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd listen to Rice.

Get some cross drilled rotors and Kragen pads with a life time warranty. </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol thats what i did with autozone life time warranty axels :-) lol only thing that sucks is when you gotta change them.

go with brembo blanks n pads

94HatchbackSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by s0ulless &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

lol thats what i did with autozone life time warranty axels :-) lol only thing that sucks is when you gotta change them.

go with brembo blanks n pads</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thus the lifetime warranty. You take them back and get some new ones for free. At least you can with Kragen.

01SSAP1

I agree with Ricey

i do not take credit for this, i am unable to locate the original author. however it is a very good read.

Here is how it works. The friction between the pad and rotor is what causes you to stop. This friction converts your forward energy into heat (remember: Energy is neither created nor destroyed, it is converted). Now that heat is a bad thing. Yes it is bad for the rotors but it is a lot worse for the pads. A warped rotor will still stop the car - it will just feel like ****. Overheated pads however WILL NOT stop the car. It is here where the rotors secondary responsibility comes in. Its job now is to DISSIPATE the heat away from the pads and DISPERSE it through itself. Notice that DISSIPATE and DISPERSE are interchangeable? Once the heat is removed from the pad/surface area it is then removed. Notice where the removal falls on the list of duties? That's right - number 3. Here is the list again. Memorize it because I will be using it a lot in this post:

#1 Maintains a coefficient of friction with the pad to slow the forward inertia of the vehicle

#2 DISSIPATE the heat

#3 REMOVE the heat from the brake system

Let's look more in-depth at each step now shall we? No? Too bad, assclown, we are doing it anyway.

#1 Maintains a coefficient of friction with the pad to slow the forward inertia of the vehicle:
This one is pretty simple and self-explanatory. The rotor's surface is where the pads contact and generate friction to slow the vehicle down. Since it is this friction that causes the conversion of forward acceleration into deceleration (negative acceleration if you want) you ideally want as much as possible right? The more friction you have the better your stopping will be. This is reason #1 why BIGGER brakes are the best way to improve a vehicle's stopping ability. More surface area on the pad and the rotor = more friction = better stopping.

#2 DISSIPATE The Heat:
Let's assume for a second that the vehicle in question is running with Hawk Blue pads on it. The brand doesn't really matter but that is what I am using as my example. They have an operating range of 400 degrees to 1100 degrees. Once they exceed that 1100 degree mark they fade from overheating. The pad material gets too soft to work effectively - glazing occurs. This means that a layer of crude glass forms on the surface of the pad. As we all know glass is very smooth and very hard. It doesn't have a very high coefficient of friction. This is bad - especially when you're coming down the back straight at VIR at 125MPH. Lucky for us the rotor has a job to do here as well. The rotor, by way of thermal tranfer, DISSIPATES the heat throughout itself. This DISSIPATION lessens the amount of heat at the contact area because it is diluted throughout the whole rotor. The bigger the rotor the better here as well. The more metal it has the more metal the heat can be diluted into.

#3 REMOVE the heat from the brake system:
Now comes the step where the rotor takes the heat it DISSIPATED from the pads and gets rid of it for good. How does it do this? By radiating it to the surface - either the faces or inside the vanes. It is here where cool air interacts with the hot metal to cool it off and remove the heat. Once again there is a reoccuring theme of "the bigger the better" here. The bigger the rotor, the more surface area it will have which means more contact with the cooling air surrounding it.

Now let's look at why cross-drilling is a bad idea.

First - as we have already established, cross-drilling was never done to aid in cooling. Its purpose was to remove the worn away pad material so that the surfaces remained clean. As we all know this doesn't have much of a purpose nowadays.

Next - In terms of cooling: Yes - x-drilling does create more areas for air to go through, but remember - this is step 3 on the list of tasks. Let's look at how this affects steps 1 and 2. The drilling of the rotor removes material from the unit. This removal means less surface area for generating surface friction as well as less material to accept the DISSIPATED heat that was generated by the friction. Now because of this I want to optimize step one and 2 since those are the immediate needs. If it takes longer for the rotor to get rid of the heat it is ok. You will have a straight at some point where you can rest the brakes and let your cooling ducts do their job. My PRIMARY concern is making sure that my car slows down at the end of the straight. This means that the rotor needs to have as much surface as possible to generate as much friction as possible and it needs to DISSIPATE the resulting heat AWAY from the pads as quick as possible so they continue to work. In both cases x-drilling does nothing to help the cause.

Now let's talk about strength - and how x-drilled rotors lack it. This one is simple. What happens to a cast iron molecule when it is overheated? I will give you a little hint - the covalence bonds weaken. These bonds are what hold the molecules together. You do the math - it adds up to fractures.

So why don't race teams use them if they are so much better? Consistency? Hmmmm . . . no. I am gonna go with the real reason here. It is because of several factors actually. They are as follows but in no particular order:

- Less usable surface area for generating friction
- Less material to DISSIPATE the heat away from the pads
- Less reliable and they are a safety risk because of fatigue and stress resulting from the reduced material

And what are the benefits? Removal of particulate matter and enhanced heat removal. I gotta tell ya - it is a tough choice but I think I am going to stick with the safe, reliable, effective-for-my-stopping needs solution.

vtecgod

the guy at the import shop that i was talking to this weekend said to go with the hawk pads as far as the rotors go wanted the slotted and drilled for the show look but if it eats the pads up quick i will get something else thanks for the info guys. just looking for a better stop out of the car, not really a race car even though been to the track with it alot this year but still want the show look too.