HatchEh2

Well my eg hatch has been smoking like crazy after i made the B7 a custom Garrett T3 kit so i decided to take the head off and see exactly what was the problem.
My cylinders were clean as anything w/ nothing but the usual soot, no oil. same with the chambers.
yet the exhaust was coated in it.
Turns out my turbo was shot to hell. shaft play like a ************, oil leaking outta both feed and return lines, oil leaking between internal wastegate and also leaking into the charge and being caked in my SMIC.... COOL!...

so turns out the oil is getting burnt from the exhaust, from the turbo spitting it in the hot downpipe... so since i gotta EX coupe parts car, i decided to do the mini me (to just switch things up... since i cant handle the wrath of the almight B7 warrior... 102hp is WAAAY too much ...)

so, i cleaned up the 'ol z6 head and swaped out internals with another z6 head i have to kinda take the best outta the 2.
removed the turbo, did the head swap.
wont start

The motor sounds like its not turning freely, its hesitating and killing my battery TREMENDIOUSLY with every revolution.
i cranked the motor by hand to make sure timing was right and i didnt really feel any resistance (pistons hitting valves)

im also throwing a code 32???

i was too tired to keep troubleshooting, and now i got work so i thought id put this up, any suggestions... HELP??

HatchEh2

ok ... now that the battery is fully charged, the motor is spinning very freely and healthy it sounds like... i now found a leak in the fuel by the banjo on top of the filter.. took care of that... still wont start, trys too but hesitates.. firing order is correct.. (i didnt touch the wires taking it off the EX coupe and it ran fine when on it so im positive its correct)

Only thing i can think of is that the distributor might not be at TDC or not in sync with the motor... but i thought it wont slide into the cam end unless it was right????


HELP!!!!

HatchEh2

before the swap:



The Z6 head cleaning (right/before, Left/after):


The B7 Deck all cleaned up...yes, just the deck
(and yes, the oil orfice is out...):


Partially complete install of the z6 head, (she so Pwetty ):

chad

do you have fuel?

do you have spark?

TDC?

what head did you put on?

Bond

Real simple to correct and check timing. Pull the cap on the dizzy. It should be


1 3
2 4

Yes the # 1 does point to the top left when looking at the front of it. It's like that on my B7 and built D16Z6 (going in next week ). Now Move the crankpully to read TDC. It will be the white line (there are two and one should be colored). Do not go by the three other lines that are further along and are red. Now line it up and check to see that the rotor is pointing at the #1 spark plug on the cap. If that is all good then you should be fine as timing goes. You can't run a B7 dizzy on a Z6 so that can't be the problem. Yes, it is possable to put a dizzy on 180 out , which would mean you are at #1 on the exhuast stroke. This would prevent the car from running or running like ****. It should be #1 on the compression stroke, but follow my derections above and this should be corrected if that is your problem. Also b7 sparkplug wires fit like *** and are not the correct ohm rating, B7 spark plugs don't run hot enough, so use ones for Z6's. What timing belt are you using? VX or Z6? You will also need to use a Z6 TB tensioner as the B7 is too big and makes the belt very hard to put on and makes it whine. Are you using a B7 ecu?

LShatchie

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchEh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well my eg hatch has been smoking like crazy after i made the B7 a custom Garrett T3 kit so i decided to take the head off and see exactly what was the problem.
My cylinders were clean as anything w/ nothing but the usual soot, no oil. same with the chambers.
yet the exhaust was coated in it.
Turns out my turbo was shot to hell. shaft play like a ************, oil leaking outta both feed and return lines, oil leaking between internal wastegate and also leaking into the charge and being caked in my SMIC.... COOL!...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dammmn! Sounds exactly like what happened to me!... but anyway when I put the head back on my LS after I got it back from the shop, it wouldnt start for me either... it ended up I had the distributor 360 degrees off.

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bond &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Real simple to correct and check timing. Pull the cap on the dizzy. It should be


1 3
2 4

Yes the # 1 does point to the top left when looking at the front of it. It's like that on my B7 and built D16Z6 (going in next week ). Now Move the crankpully to read TDC. It will be the white line (there are two and one should be colored). Do not go by the three other lines that are further along and are red. Now line it up and check to see that the rotor is pointing at the #1 spark plug on the cap. If that is all good then you should be fine as timing goes. You can't run a B7 dizzy on a Z6 so that can't be the problem. Yes, it is possable to put a dizzy on 180 out , which would mean you are at #1 on the exhuast stroke. This would prevent the car from running or running like ****. It should be #1 on the compression stroke, but follow my derections above and this should be corrected if that is your problem. Also b7 sparkplug wires fit like *** and are not the correct ohm rating, B7 spark plugs don't run hot enough, so use ones for Z6's. What timing belt are you using? VX or Z6? You will also need to use a Z6 TB tensioner as the B7 is too big and makes the belt very hard to put on and makes it whine. Are you using a B7 ecu?</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok, im really tired so im kinda havin a hard time understanding what your saying but i think i know what you mean.
i have a whole ex parts car so i used everything from the head up, Dist. IM, wires, Timing belt (new one ofcourse), and ecu, but i didnt use the Z6 tensioner, the B7 seems to be fine the belt is adequaetly snug and not too tight...

I just got done messing with the dist., after taking off the cap (with cam and crank both at TDC) the dizzy points to the top left, which IS the number one wire... although the dot on it (which i was told is TDC for the Dist.) is at the bottom right, and if i rotate the dist that way it wont go back into the cam...

Bond

No that dot doesn't mean anything. a oem cap will have an a, but I still don't go by it. The way you described your timing it's fine. All set at TDC and rotor pointing top left is right. It must be something else other then timing.

HatchEh2

im positive theres fuel, (the spark plug was covered in it when i just now pulled it out)
The crank and cam are definately in sync with on another cuz the cam will point TDC and the number one piston will be all the way up...
Now if the ignition timing is right.. then WTF!?

could it be the ecu????
I have a P28 that i never worked before, i bought it from some H-T member back in january to use on my Z6 swap....

the parts car i have is an auto,... do you think i can hook up that ecu just to see if itll run even if its an auto or it wont work??

I can **** with the resistors and convert it to stick but if i can find out if thats the problem right now, that would be a load of stress off my shoulders...

or will the stock P06 work?

D C 5

did you take out the oil jet in the block??? if not your gonna have to do that if you took that out have you ever taken the crankshaft pulley off? if you did do you remember if you put the little metal square key like thing that goes in the crankshaft pulley? i forgot to put that little key back into my crankshaft pulley and when i did it the motor would turn over but not start and it acted like the battery was about to die so thats what my guess is

HatchEh2

thanks for the input but yea, i read your thread, you had a short in the ground in the starter.

As i stated in the pictures, i removed the oil orfice between cylinders 2&3 (which really wouldnt keep it from starting)

and ofcourse i took off the crank pulley.. i did a head swap, which inturn means timing belt change aswell. i made sure to put back the woodruff key (the little square [its actually a rectangle] thing) back as well..

thanks for trying tho dude!

HatchEh2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95RedCoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">did you take out the oil jet in the block??? if not your gonna have to do that if you took that out have you ever taken the crankshaft pulley off? if you did do you remember if you put the little metal square key like thing that goes in the crankshaft pulley? i forgot to put that little key back into my crankshaft pulley and when i did it the motor would turn over but not start and it acted like the battery was about to die so thats what my guess is</TD></TR></TABLE>
oh and just as you did, i missed honda day too cuz of this lol

D C 5

lol i tried my best at least now i know that its called a woodruff key but yeah i heard honda day wasn't all that great anyways

Bond

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchEh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">thanks for the input but yea, i read your thread, you had a short in the ground in the starter.

As i stated in the pictures, i removed the oil orfice between cylinders 2&3 (which really wouldnt keep it from starting)

and ofcourse i took off the crank pulley.. i did a head swap, which inturn means timing belt change aswell. i made sure to put back the woodruff key (the little square [its actually a rectangle] thing) back as well..

thanks for trying tho dude! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Alright, since timing is correct then that's not it. How about the dizzy? Is the coil still good. If not it won't fire. Take your voltmeter/ohmmeter and test it. Follow your manual (if you have one) and see if it's working o.k. If you don't have a manual then either go get one or I'll try and post the instructions later. By the sounds of it you are not a newb and do know your motor aswell as I do. The auto ecu from what I understand will not work with your manual civic. It has to do with the ecu being told the car is in park and then the ecu allows power to the starter and coil. Same idea that you can't start your car without the clutch all the way in. I am almost sure that it will not work and will not run with an auto ecu, but you can try. Yes, the PO6 will work and only vtec would not work. There are also some different A/F ratios and things like that, but it will still run. Try the PO6 and see what happens. If your timing was way out your valves would hit the piston head when trying to start it. You would know when this happens.

Cliffs: Check coil and try PO6 ecu.

HiProfile

I'd say its the auto ecu. I find it weird that [if it wasn't getting the 'park' signal] it would crank at all. The manual p06 will work [but throw the expected codes], since p06's are essentially p28's with missing parts.


BTW LSHatchie, you can't have a dizzy off 360 degrees. 360 is a complete circle. 90, 180, and 270 would having it firing on the wrong stroke, 360 or 0 never will.

HatchEh2

alright i got it to start but its FUCKED UP... turns out the ecu, timing, etc. wasnt the issue... it was the **** i used to clean the motor, it was flooded and a half w/ kerosene and parts cleaner... but it started right after putting in the P06?? so maybe thats what i needed. So right after i put in the manual P28 it ran too.

now the problem is idle, part throttle, power band and vtec.... im throwin a code 22 but yet the spool selenoid seems fine and is wired up right. part throttle the idle is bouncin up and down between 1500-2300rpm so fast that it sounds like a 2-step?? so im guessin thats my TPS? the power band is weak as **** till like 3500 (yea its a honda, but the B7 pulled harder in lower rpm then that) so im guessin thats my MAP?

Then even AFTER turning the idle adjuster all the way it still stalls out when i coast and/or push in the clutch...
so idle at cold startup is like 1500-2000rpm then once warm its like 350/400-stallish???
now the other probelm is .... THERES A COOLANT LINE comin from the block that im guessin is suppose to go to the head, its one of those little *** ones from the back left corner of the block.. i ended up just T-ing it off to another small coolant line right underneith the throttle... WHAT THE **** IS GOIN ON???!!!!

by the way, could me still haveing the blue box weird up cause all this??? i had the turbo off before with the blue box on and it didnt cause problems like this, the only wire not just tapped in is the map, so y should the blue box matter except for causing it to run rich...

HELP!!
P.S. my computer is down so im on a friends, ill see if i can use his camera to take pics of this hose im talkin about, stay tuned

Bond

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchEh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">alright i got it to start but its FUCKED UP... turns out the ecu, timing, etc. wasnt the issue... it was the **** i used to clean the motor, it was flooded and a half w/ kerosene and parts cleaner... but it started right after putting in the P06?? so maybe thats what i needed. So right after i put in the manual P28 it ran too.

now the problem is idle, part throttle, power band and vtec.... im throwin a code 22 but yet the spool selenoid seems fine and is wired up right. part throttle the idle is bouncin up and down between 1500-2300rpm so fast that it sounds like a 2-step?? so im guessin thats my TPS? the power band is weak as **** till like 3500 (yea its a honda, but the B7 pulled harder in lower rpm then that) so im guessin thats my MAP?

Then even AFTER turning the idle adjuster all the way it still stalls out when i coast and/or push in the clutch...
so idle at cold startup is like 1500-2000rpm then once warm its like 350/400-stallish???
now the other probelm is .... THERES A COOLANT LINE comin from the block that im guessin is suppose to go to the head, its one of those little *** ones from the back left corner of the block.. i ended up just T-ing it off to another small coolant line right underneith the throttle... WHAT THE **** IS GOIN ON???!!!!

by the way, could me still haveing the blue box weird up cause all this??? i had the turbo off before with the blue box on and it didnt cause problems like this, the only wire not just tapped in is the map, so y should the blue box matter except for causing it to run rich...

HELP!!
P.S. my computer is down so im on a friends, ill see if i can use his camera to take pics of this hose im talkin about, stay tuned </TD></TR></TABLE>

What did you use to clean the engine? I prefer to use an engine protectant (the stuff you spray in when you store an engine). It is much safer and burns off easly. Your FITV (controls idle when warming up) sounds about right. Mine sit's at about 1500-1750. Yours is a little more but should be alright. The IACV is what is wrong. When you adjust your idle you are suppost to unplug the IACV. Your idle should be at 420 +/- 50 rpm. Sounds like the IACV is diconnected and is making it run like ****. You should see an increase in power throught the powerband as the displacement is larger and will be an increase in power both down low and higher up (vtec). Adust your TPS aswell. Should read .5 volts when closed and around 4.5volts when fully open. Engines off the whole time and just the power should be on. Also the voltage should steadly increase from .5 to 4.5 and it shouldn't jump drastically. Just leave it hooked up and slowly move the throttle plate and watch the volts increase. Fix all this and see what happens.

HatchEh2

Thanks im gonna try that now. But do you think the blue box might be interfering with all this.. i just found the number 4 inj wire riped out (i soldered EVERYTHING) hooked it back up and it really didnt do ****. ...but suddenly now its running like my Timing belt is of a million teeth?? or atleast when you hit the gas...

now real important: THAT COOLANT LINE!? where the hell does it go? the car now steams tremendiously under the hood and smells like coolant (DUH!) yet it doesnt leak the coolant... fan comes on and everything... BUT IT OVER HEATS!
im gonna remove the line from where i tapped it (under the throttle) and T- it off were someone just told me, the line that runs by the alternator...

SOS!

Bond

I am building a Z6 and it's in my shed. The coolent lines are all the same for the d series. One heads from the intake manny to the coolent rail on the back of the block. Another runs from the top of the block to the FITV. Can you post a picture of what is not connected. I could easly help you out as I have full access and viewing of all the coolent lines.Is it the one that runs from the FITV to the intake manny? Why are you over heating? Did you install the head gasket right side up? You must be leaking coolent somewhere if it smells like it. What condition is your rad cap in? They are often the problem when people over heat as everyone forgets they are a mini thermostat that let's access coolent out. They break down and need to be replaced just as much as the thermostat. Get the TPS adjusted and IACV connected and working and that should help the sluggishness( not even a word..lol) and idle should smooth out a lot. The blue box is for the lock out thingy that auto cars have. It's so you can't start it with it not in park.

HatchEh2

No, the Blue box, The GReddy blue box is a pre-tuned Fuel management system that came with the 92-95 SOHC GReddy Turbo kit, i had it hooked up to my custom T3 kit i made...

HatchEh2

alright im heading back home to start checkin this out and try to get pictures... but if you guys can do me a favor since my computers down, IF YOU READ THIS AND REALLY DONT HAVE ANY ADVICE OR INPUT JUST GIVE ME A BUMP TO KEEP THIS ATOP SO THAT MORE USERS ARE EXPOSED TO MY ISSUE, THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE IT IN ADVANCE!


Ill start the bandwagon: BUMP

Bond

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchEh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, the Blue box, The GReddy blue box is a pre-tuned Fuel management system that came with the 92-95 SOHC GReddy Turbo kit, i had it hooked up to my custom T3 kit i made...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, sorry about that. The FMS is going to have to be removed if your not running a turbo anymore. When running you are getting way to much fuel. I would imagine that your injectors are around 350cc and your FMS is not helping either. You are prolly running super rich, so unplugging it would most likely help. Let the ecu adjust the a/f and disconnect the FMS.

HatchEh2

I cant get the pictures up... WTDR is being real gay...

after i took and edit the pictures w/ circles, colorful pointers and everything... DAMMIT

well anyway, the IM from the b7 has a hose coming out under the throttle going into the end of its runner...
the Z6 doesnt, there isnt a spot for it on the end of the runner... then theres a hose coming out from the top left corner of the b7 block (a small hose from that bunch of hoses) the z6 block didnt have it... where does this hose go on the z6 head??? i just need a picture of this area on someones b7/z6 minime... please!!

ill keep trying with "we todd did racing" to get the pictures up...
stay tuned,
in the mean time, keep helping me out with those bumps

Bond

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HatchEh2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I cant get the pictures up... WTDR is being real gay...

after i took and edit the pictures w/ circles, colorful pointers and everything... DAMMIT

well anyway, the IM from the b7 has a hose coming out under the throttle going into the end of its runner...
the Z6 doesnt, there isnt a spot for it on the end of the runner... then theres a hose coming out from the top left corner of the b7 block (a small hose from that bunch of hoses) the z6 block didnt have it... where does this hose go on the z6 head??? i just need a picture of this area on someones b7/z6 minime... please!!

ill keep trying with "we todd did racing" to get the pictures up...
stay tuned,
in the mean time, keep helping me out with those bumps </TD></TR></TABLE>

Odd, becasue my D15B7 and D16Z6 are exactly the same as far as coolent lines and locations.

HatchEh2

i tried and i tried and i just cant get these pictures up...

is it possible that anyone can get me a few, clear close up and far out pictures of there b7/z6 mini me from the passenger side fender looking at the back corner of the block with all the coolant and vacuum lines under and around the throttle body and intake mani!!!???

PLEASE ITS URGENT THAT I GET MY CAR ON THE ROAD SOOOOON! I START COLLEGE SOON