philkehn

Well it all started with a small radiator leak, it leaked slowly and drove fine if i filled it up on a daily basis.

The leak obviously got a little larger than I had noticed. I was on my way to work and noticed my check engine light turned on and my engine bogged down, and to my attention was my temp gauge way over heated past the top line. I have no idea how long it was this high for it was already that high when I noticed it. I pulled over at the next exit ramp and let the car sit there for a few hours to cool down.

Later that day I went and temporarily filled her up with water to get it back to the house and again it began to overheat. Of coarse this time I'm watching and I pull over right when it gets a little above half way to refill again.

I finally got her home and replaced the blown radiator and there is no leaks but the engine is running funny, so the first thing I figure is that the head gasket must have a crack and sure enough after i let the engine warm up a bit more, white smoke gallore, there went the rest of my gasket.

So now I have read alot about head gasket changing and have changed a couple my self.

Now my main question is and has to do with later reliability. This car is my daily driver and I commute 20 miles to work everyday and have a child I take with me places, and I of coarse dont want another incedent where I am left stranded on the side of the interstate, especially in the 104 degree weather we have been having and with a baby in the back.

So from what I learned when changing the head gasket its important to get the head checked for warpage and leakage and fixed in necessary and to replace the head studs which i would rather not do for the head studs alone cost 1/4th or more of a new engine...

Is there any damage that my have been applied to the block and I would have to take care of in the process of the change as well?

93preludeh22

I think a lot of people are going to say replace the motor..

philkehn

Yea its like 600 shipped from hmo.com I'm real tight on money right now im trying to take care of it for like 150

But I might just break down and see what I can get locally.

fortymcpants

sounds like youve got it under control, get the head checked out. if its bad it might be time for a swap, or find another head at the junkyard. good luck

philkehn

yea i know a guy trying to sell a z6 head for like 50 bucks with the dizzy... so i was thinking about just buying that a slapping it on instead of paying 50 to get this one checked out.

94EG8

Just pull the engine. If its been overheated 9 times out of 10 your wasting your time and money trying to put a headgasket in. The way i look at it you'll spend at least $150, put it back together and realize the engine is cooked and then you still have to shell out $600 for an engine, plus you've already wasted $150 on the old engine. I look at putting headgaskets in overheated engines like the lottery, occasionally you get very lucky, usually you don't.

philkehn

ok let me ask is it like a lottery when using the same old head that the gaskets blew with due to warpage issues... If i bought a new head to slap on there would that lower the chances of later failure... I guess what I dont understand is how does it cause engine failure.

94EG8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philkehn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok let me ask is it like a lottery when using the same old head that the gaskets blew with due to warpage issues... If i bought a new head to slap on there would that lower the chances of later failure... I guess what I dont understand is how does it cause engine failure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Its not just the head thats the problem, hell the last time i actually tried to put a head gasket in a D15B7 i checked the head with a straight edge it looked perfect, the gasket still didn't seal properly though, the block can warp too as its aluminum. Rings really don't like excessive heat, it takes the spring out of them and then the engine starts burning oil. If you got coolant in the bottom end you could be looking at early bearing failure. Its seriously just not worth putting headgaskets in these things, even honda knows they have a problem with them. theres a tsb on it somewhere. Even my local dealership told me "once you start putting headgaskets in them you pretty much f***ed" - their words, not mine. Basically if it just has to work get another engine, i wouldn't buy rebuilt either, low mileage jdm seems to be the way to go. If you don't mind constantly worrying about when the gasket is going to blow again, and they do, then put a headgasket in it. I look at it this way, replace headgasket is anywhere from $50 - $200 depending on where you buy the gasket and if you use new headbolts or not. If I break down 2 hours from home it costs me over $250 for a tow truck, and i still either have to replace the headgasket, again, or buy another engine. for $450 I can almost buy a used engine. Think about it.

OMGWTFBBQ!

If the new head isn't warped as well then you should be better off than re-using the old one. BUt like the guy above me said, there are all kinds of problems that can stem from a blown hg.

strategy400

Pistons go soft and the wrist pin holes enlarge. Heat does things at a molecular level to metal. All kinds of bad things happen inside an overheated engine. There should be an alarm at 3/4 temp gauge and oil pressure loss. My old 85 Accord beeped/buzzed when the oil light came on. My Ford Escape has a fail safe where the engine runs on alternating cylinders if the temp goes up. I know that feeling though when you look down and your temp gauge is pegged. Sucks.

philkehn

Yea a buzzer for an over heating car would be a great idea, thats exactly what i was thinking when i noticed my car over heating, only if i had more of a warning. anyways im looking at hmotorsonline.com they have a full long block for 400 plus shipping, my b16 i ordered from them previously was only 150 for shipping so im expecting a little less this time.

AndrewHuffman

personally, i'd just rebuild the whole thing. or as much i could offard. buy new bearings, new rings, get the block checked and honed. then either head you end up using, you should still get it checked, people sell bad heads all day, then shave it flat. you can reuse your head bolts as long if they are not stretched/stressed. new timing belt and water pump since you'll have it off. this rebuild ( if everything checks out) should be about the same price of another motor. even if not.... id pay a little extra to have a fresh rebuild motor then buy a iify they will need rebuilding soon anyway. it really depends on how much you like your car.

as over heating goes, first the gasket goes, the the head warps, later it cracks, then the block cracks. so if your head check out good, and your on a tight budget... maybe you don't need to check it.

philkehn

yea i noticed my engine running real odd so it was just sitting in my driveway warming up when the head gasket actually blew. I was standing over my hood with the engine running and was actually watching when the muffler started puffing white smoke, I did not even run the car at all afterwards. But I think the head will warp before the headgasket even blows as where I see the headgasket blowing was just an extra downfall.

philkehn

Okay well i tore down the top half of the engine today and it was not what i expected the head gasket was NOT blown...

So now I have a have tore apart engine and no explaination for the white smoke, I checked the cylinder walls and they all seem to be okay, is there invisible cracks that may have occured..?? What else could of caused this? Just a bad warped head or block.?

94EG8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philkehn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay well i tore down the top half of the engine today and it was not what i expected the head gasket was NOT blown...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Define blown. If you mean theres a chunk of headgasket missing, I have yet to see a honda engine do this, i've seen toyotas do it, especially between 2 cylinders. Generally the gasket just looks kinda rotten, its really the best way I can describe it, it will have several pin holes in it usually that you can see through if you hold it up to the light.

philkehn

Well it still had plenty of sealant around the sides, there was bare metal showing but no rotting or pin holes or any visible cracks...

However now that I am searching around im seeing pics of good headgaskets and it appears the one side of the gasket should be completely covered in sealant if not both sides.

94EG8

Most of the ones i've seen looked more or less ok, if thats of any help, i think i threw out all the blown headgaskets i had laying around or i'd take a pic so you could compare. The last engine i pulled the head off i had no intention of fixing, it was blowing white smoke as far as the eye could see, it blew in traffic one day and it said screw it and pinned it in second for the next 2kms, and it really didn't look bad when i pulled the head off, still seemed like it was sealed good, but obviously not. If you are gonna put in a headgasket check the block with a straight edge and do the same for the block. rings are probably cooked though, they really don't like heat, same goes for a lot of other stuff.

philkehn

Yea i know my engine got pretty hot it was tough getting the spark wires out and the valve cover gasket was caked pretty good to the head, could this heat have melted my stuff.

94EG8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philkehn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea i know my engine got pretty hot it was tough getting the spark wires out and the valve cover gasket was caked pretty good to the head, could this heat have melted my stuff.</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you even think about trying to fix that your nuts. Your looking at rings that cooked, probably a warped head and/or block, seals that are probably ruined from the heat, bearings that may have severly shortened lifespan. essentially 1.5L boat anchor. Buy something else, just about anything would be better than that engine. A lot of importers stock cheap SOHC engines, personally i'm very partial to the D15B Vtec, but there are other choices, some of them non vtec so you don't even need a new ECU. The big reason i'm so fond of JDM over rebuilt or junkyard engines is because most importers preform a leakdown and compression test before they sell the engine, and they also generally include valuable accessories like distributors, alternators, power steering pumps and AC compressors. The price is usually not a lot more than US stripped longblocks in inknown condition.

95dxsir2

ya, if your plug wire caps melted to the head, get a long block.
if not, stop asking questions about a bad head gasket and check the head and block with a straight edge. if you have white smoke, your obviously getting coolant into the combustion chamber.

philkehn

well actually its a z6 so I am decided on just buying a new jdm d15b as in the 3 stage vtec or what ever it is.. I read that this is better than the z6 is this true?

If I were to get that engine would it run on my current p28 ecu? or would i HAVE to switch to the p08 to get the full potential....

And if you know anywhere with a good price I would appreciate it..

philkehn

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95dxsir2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ya, if your plug wire caps melted to the head, get a long block.
if not, stop asking questions about a bad head gasket and check the head and block with a straight edge. if you have white smoke, your obviously getting coolant into the combustion chamber.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well Im sorry im asking questions Im trying to get an understanding of what is happening here not only what happened. You are free to not answer my questions and I already understand that I am getting coolant in my combustion chamber, and my head gasket looks good so I asked from where else could it be...

In my view you wasted alot of time with that post

94EG8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by philkehn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well actually its a z6 so I am decided on just buying a new jdm d15b as in the 3 stage vtec or what ever it is.. I read that this is better than the z6 is this true?

If I were to get that engine would it run on my current p28 ecu? or would i HAVE to switch to the p08 to get the full potential....

And if you know anywhere with a good price I would appreciate it..</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do not get the 3 stage D15B vtec, its OBD2 and takes a special ECU called a P2J, its next to impossible to get and its really the only thing that will run that engine. Get the standard OBD1 single stage D15B vtec, run it with your P28, use your 4 wire O2 sensor and either add the purge solinoid to the back of the intake manifold or reuse your Z6 manifold. I don't think you'll be disapointed. The D15B has about 3hp on the D16Z6, but marginally less torque, it is said to rev quicker as well. Everyone seems to love them including myself. I've got over 20kms on mine now and hasn't taken a drop of anything yet.

sageuvagony

A little lesson for you.

I used to have a D15B7 that had a head gasket go bad since I didn't realize my car was over heating. I discovered my car was overheating when I was at a red light. The car started to slowly die, and then the radiator litterally exploded. This was around when I first got my car, so I didn't know much about them at all. Mechanic fixed everything for about $400 or so (I forgot) and everything was fine (or so it seemed)

6 months down the road, I noticed upon every startup, every morning (or when the engine has sat for more than a few hours) the car would idle all funny as if water was falling into the cylinders. It would only do it for a few seconds then go away. As 2 weeks passed by, the conditions got worse and worse upon startup, until one morning, I noticed white smoke EVERYWHERE out my muffler.



That sucked... My headgasket blew again!!!!!! The smell is horrible as well. So anyways, I decided that this time I would try to tackle the job myself. I spent about $120 for everything I needed (gaskets, seals, etc) When I took off the head, I found this





So yep, the headgasket was bad... FOR SURE... Had a machine shop check the head out both times so far and everything's good. They still machined it to make it as flat as possible. So I replace everything, and wow.. everything went perfectly. I was so proud of myself because I did the headgasket all by myself with little engine experience and a haynes manual.

Well.. 6 months pass again, and the same friggin symptoms come back (weird idle at cold startup) so I KNEW the headgasket was about to go again. I decided to drive the engine till the headgasket completely blew. It got to the point that the cylinders would fill up with so much coolant, the engine wouldn't start and would temporarily hydrolock unless I kept trying to start it. During that time I had a friend who was selling a D16Y7+tranny+ALL underhood components with only 36,050 miles on it for $300. This time, I wasn't going to go through HELL anymore on this engine.

I pulled the engine....



When I pulled the engine, I decided to take off the head again, and found coolant in the cylinders again. This time, I decided to tilt the engine and check to see if there was milky oil, and yes Sir, here's a milkshake for ya!



This is the new engine I ended dropping in. Have been problem free for years!!!!



BTW these pics are OLD!!!!

And yep.. That's 3 TIMES that this headgasket blew. The cause of all of this is probably because I had the car overheat so long. I know swapping isn't the best thing in your current situation, but if you look hard enough, you'll find a great deal, and will save you TONS of money and headaches down the road. Good luck man. Hope all goes well.

Edit : Just because a headgasket looks perfect, that does not mean it's perfect. The smallest defect could make a huge difference.


Modified by sageuvagony at 7:41 PM 8/4/2008

94EG8

I did pretty much the same thing. I replaced the HG in the original engine, didn't seal properly right from the start, bought a used junkyard engine a week later, ran it for few weeks, maybe a month, blew the headgasket, when i pulled the head it had a fel-pro gasket so obviously it had been replaced before. pulled that and replaced it with a nice low mileage JDM D15B vtec, no more problems. I'd just like to keep someone else from going through the expirence i had.