NonovUrbizniz

i searched... Didn't find anything...

I just got my Fidanza flywheel and in the instruction is says that although it is a CNC machined part you should balance it prior to install to ensure proper balance... especially with an externally balanced engine...

A. Are d16z6's externally balanced ... I didn't think so the crankhaft pully isn't weighted at all which is normally how it's balanced externally.
B. has ANYONE actually gotten it balanced prior to install?

What's everyone's opinion/experience?

IHateJDM

i've never heard of balancing a brand new never installed flywheel. but i don't have a fidanza one either. how high do you plan on revving? with a z6 i think you'll be ok. I have a cluthmasters flywheel in my H, revving to 7500 all the time, and I never balanced mine. if anyone knows any reason why he should, feel free to prove me wrong. My $.02

NonovUrbizniz

Not sure on the reving bit for now... def going to rev to stock redline for now... as the computer isn't chipped...

I'm getting comp cams cam and springs soon... but I still think I'll keep it under 7500 unless I decide to get the titanium retainers...

and even then I'll need to get the computer chipped or bite the bullet and get hondata...(going turbo later)

IHateJDM

pgmfi.org <- that's where all the ecu guru's are. see if someone has a rom for those cams. unless you are tuning it yourself, it probably won't be as good as hondata, but it ll be a hell of a lot cheaper.

NonovUrbizniz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IHateJDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pgmfi.org &lt;- that's where all the ecu guru's are. see if someone has a rom for those cams. unless you are tuning it yourself, it probably won't be as good as hondata, but it ll be a hell of a lot cheaper.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I thought of that but I'd like to get the hondata since i"m going to be going turbo... although I might do uberdata or something cheaper...

Probobly end up tuning it myself as my buddies shop has a dyno for emissions they say they're getting the HP/TRQ software for.

although the chip idea isn't bad either though just for now to raise the rev limit and optimize for the cam.

IHateJDM

Hondata for turbo . Honda's don't like turbos unless they are tuned well. Hondata will make your turbo honda feel like it came from the factory that way.

NonovUrbizniz

anyone got any opinions/experience

NonovUrbizniz

one more bump

T4eg

Id balance it...my competion clutch flywheel was off

NonovUrbizniz

damn... alright I guess I gotta do the right thing... ***** I was going to install it tomorrow too. maybe I'll do my HG instead.

Thanks.

Anyone else feel free to chime back this up.

NonovUrbizniz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by T4eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Id balance it...my competion clutch flywheel was off </TD></TR></TABLE>

How far off was it and what did you pay to get it balanced?

TeamNextGenChris

i've been using a Fidanze flywheel for about six years with no problems.also installed a ton of them over the years and never had problems.if memory serves,i seem to remember seeing where they are balanced from the manufacturer-does yours have any drill markes on the backside?
chris

Jim Truett

The Flywheel will probably be fairly close, but I bet your pressure plate will be fairly out of balance. I have had one that needed 7 grams removed from it.

I would balance the flywheel first, and then the flywheel and pressure plate together.

NonovUrbizniz

So how much does this cost? My buddy said he thinks the service they use is like 100 bucks... I'm not really looking to spend that kind of money... especially not twice...

Also what are the negatives with not doing it... say it's off... it just going to cause premature bearing wear right?

Cuz my motor has a ton of miles on it anyway... so if the bearings go I'll just do it then when I rebuild it...

Thing is the cars at my buddys shop and I was looking to get it done tomorrow...

I don't think they've EVER balanced a flywheel there unless it was warped and they sent it out... I KNOW they've never balanced a pressure plate...

This is just a stock d16 with some minor bolt ons and soon to be a cam...

TeamNextGenChris

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So how much does this cost? My buddy said he thinks the service they use is like 100 bucks... I'm not really looking to spend that kind of money... especially not twice...

Also what are the negatives with not doing it... say it's off... it just going to cause premature bearing wear right?

Cuz my motor has a ton of miles on it anyway... so if the bearings go I'll just do it then when I rebuild it...

Thing is the cars at my buddys shop and I was looking to get it done tomorrow...

I don't think they've EVER balanced a flywheel there unless it was warped and they sent it out... I KNOW they've never balanced a pressure plate...

This is just a stock d16 with some minor bolt ons and soon to be a cam... </TD></TR></TABLE>
i can't imagine there'd be any problems to justify doing it.MAYBE if you plan to really turn the rev limiter up,or are super ****......think about how many people are running around with billet flwyheels with no reported problems,and i'm willing to bet that none have been rebalanced.i've never seen any other manufacturer suggest it be done,including the CM units that used to just be rebadged Fidanze parts.maybe it's just Fidanza covering their ***?seriously,i wouldn't worry about it.
Chris

Jim Truett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamNextGenChris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> super ****.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yep, I sure am. I can instantly feel the difference between a fully balanced rotating assembly, and an unmatched pressure plate, flywheel and crank. My D15B-T is silky-smooth, even at 7600 rpm.

First i zero the crank. Then I balance the flywheel to the crank. Finally I will mount the pressure plate and balance the entire assembly.

If you are not concerned about high HP longevity, and have a basically stock motor, just put it together and go. Honda engines in stock form last fine this way, but I push mine pretty hard.

JDMKid71

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yep, I sure am. I can instantly feel the difference between a fully balanced rotating assembly, and an unmatched pressure plate, flywheel and crank. My D15B-T is silky-smooth, even at 7600 rpm.

First i zero the crank. Then I balance the flywheel to the crank. Finally I will mount the pressure plate and balance the entire assembly.

If you are not concerned about high HP longevity, and have a basically stock motor, just put it together and go. Honda engines in stock form last fine this way, but I push mine pretty hard.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just bought the exact same flywheel... went to a local clutch shop (South Bend Clutch) and asked them what they thought... they said it doesn’t need to be balanced and just run it as is.. so i did.. put it on with a new stock replacement clutch and its fine... seems to be balanced to me.. (no noticeable vibration) and I love it also.... much faster shifts and quicker down shifts

TeamNextGenChris

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yep, I sure am. I can instantly feel the difference between a fully balanced rotating assembly, and an unmatched pressure plate, flywheel and crank. My D15B-T is silky-smooth, even at 7600 rpm.

First i zero the crank. Then I balance the flywheel to the crank. Finally I will mount the pressure plate and balance the entire assembly.

If you are not concerned about longevity, put it together and go. Honda engines in stock form last fine this way, but I push mine pretty hard.</TD></TR></TABLE>
why would you balance the flywheel to the crank?wouldn't that,in effect,almost turn the engine into and externally balanced engine?
if you're building an engine,then obviously you want to balance all the internal parts as a part of your buildup-that's common practice.
so,if the internal engine assembly is balanced,why should the flywheel interact with that?why not balance the flywheel on it's own(or with the PP mounted)?then it's balanced regardless of it's mounting orientation to the crank,and the balance of either is not affected by it's mounting position.do you also balance the crank pulley?if you're that ****,i'm sure it has some amount of imbalance at some degree....the question is whether this stuff(excluding the internal engine parts)are out of balance enough to justify the cost/time of balancing them.where does it stop?cams?cam gears?alternator core?what about axles?tranny components?it's great if you can free-rev your engine and have a perfect balance,but what about when you're actually moving?for the average honda enthusiast,it's not worth it(by performance gains or by money spent)to balance any of those parts.they all come from the manufacturers(assuming quality components)in above acceptable balance.as far as that goes,they are acceptable for even high performance use.
with endless money and time,it may be worth it to balance all those components to the nth degree for deminishing returns,but i can't justify it.my stock B18c is silky smooth at 8200 RPM-with an unbalanced Fidanze flywheel.i'd be willing to bet that your engine is no smoother when actually driving down the road when all the other components that are beyond your control come into play.
Chris

NonovUrbizniz

Sweet.... I'm **** and all but I'm too poor to really care and this is now my second car so I don't really care...

I'm gunna do it over and over and over anyway... this is going to be my project car for at least the next 5-10 years so I'm not looking to make this stuff perfect... it's all going to either come out or be redone eventually anyhow...

Alright thanks guys I will be installing it tomorrow...

Of course by input shaft bearing in my trans is going too so with my luck I'll install this and that will go a couple days later.

thanks for all the input folks.

Jim Truett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TeamNextGenChris &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why would you balance the flywheel to the crank?wouldn't that,in effect,almost turn the engine into and externally balanced engine?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

How did you make that leap?

Why not balance the flywheel to the crank it will be spinning on? All of the other parts you mentioned are not hard mounted to the crank. There are dampener springs in most clutches, and except for the mainshaft, the tranny and axles spin at less than crank rpm. They are also not directly coupled to the crank. I'm referring to crank vibration and harmonics. The drivetrain after the crank is not going to beat up the main bearings.

And yes, I check the balance of the crank pulley, and check it for runout after I install it.

Also, I'm not loaded, so the extra $110 that all of the balancing costs me is a fair amount added in to the build. I just like to know that it was built to the best of my ability. Higher standards are not a bad thing

Jim Truett

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Of course by input shaft bearing in my trans is going too so with my luck I'll install this and that will go a couple days later.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

The ISB is $21 and takes about 30 minutes to install. It's easier with the tranny already out

JDMKid71

very true... did this before christmas...i would just wait a few extra days and get a ISB and do it all in one day so you dont have to pull the tranny off again.. it took me 1 hour to pull my tranny by myself... so why not just do it all in one night?

NonovUrbizniz

Alright thanks guys... I'm probobly going to get the bearing but I'm probobly going to do the clutch/flywheel today anyway... the bearing isn't that bad... it only makes noise when I get really hard on it... and only in first gear so I've got a little time... and I"m gunna be doing a LOT of work to the car so it wouldn't shock me if I pulled the tranny for some other reason in the next couple of weeks/months...

I'd kind of like to do a full rebuild so I may just buy a spare for a while and rebuild my stock trans. then either sell the spare or keep it for just that.

Thanks again for all the input guys.

TeamNextGenChris

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jim Truett &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How did you make that leap?

Why not balance the flywheel to the crank it will be spinning on? All of the other parts you mentioned are not hard mounted to the crank. There are dampener springs in most clutches, and except for the mainshaft, the tranny and axles spin at less than crank rpm. They are also not directly coupled to the crank. I'm referring to crank vibration and harmonics. The drivetrain after the crank is not going to beat up the main bearings.

And yes, I check the balance of the crank pulley, and check it for runout after I install it.

Also, I'm not loaded, so the extra $110 that all of the balancing costs me is a fair amount added in to the build. I just like to know that it was built to the best of my ability. Higher standards are not a bad thing

</TD></TR></TABLE>
i don't have anything against balancing the flywheel to the crank,but it just seems to me to make more sense to balance it by itself so that it isn't dependent on a certain mounting position on the crank to be in balance.if you ever have to pull it off for some reason,or ever sell it,it's still balanced,regardless of what engine it goes on.
chris

T4eg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How far off was it and what did you pay to get it balanced?</TD></TR></TABLE>

dont know how much or how far off , my uncle did it.