Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

b20 swap, SIMPLE questions...

 
Old 09-28-2004, 07:04 PM
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Default b20 swap, SIMPLE questions...

ok, i've been searching around the forum for the last 2 hours, and couldnt find a few things.

im planning a non-vtec b20 swap into a del sol.

i've been reading up and i think this is the setup i want.

b20b, b16 trans, ls ecu, ls intake manifold, homemade arc induction box, jdm itr 4-1 header, safc for tuning, espelir exhaust.

now, for the simple questions that i can't find:

1. what axles will i have to run with this setup
2. does the itr header fit on the b20 block, i heard that it won't fit over the bottom, and then i heard it will.
3. when buying the b20 longblock from hmotorsonline, it doesn't come with an alternator... can i reuse my d15 alternator, or will i have to pay for a new one?
4. what wiring harness would you guys reccomend?


i read this thread. a guy used LS Cams, LS ECU and LS Intake Manifold... worked for him.. i thought the ls cams and b20b cams were the same?
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Old 09-28-2004, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

dont buy the safc/b16 trans

save your money get the trpe r trans. has lsd. only get a safc if you get a vtec head. not worth it otherwise
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Old 09-28-2004, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (maskone909)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maskone909 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dont buy the safc/b16 trans

save your money get the trpe r trans. has lsd. only get a safc if you get a vtec head. not worth it otherwise</TD></TR></TABLE>


safc is good for basic tuning i thought, and vafc was for vtec.
i dont want to spend 1900 on a trans when i can spend under 1000 for the same one wihtout an lsd.
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Old 09-28-2004, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

a non tuned b20vtec with type r trans is better than b20 tuned imo
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Old 09-28-2004, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok, i've been searching around the forum for the last 2 hours, and couldnt find a few things.

im planning a non-vtec b20 swap into a del sol.

i've been reading up and i think this is the setup i want.

b20b, b16 trans, ls ecu, ls intake manifold, homemade arc induction box, jdm itr 4-1 header, safc for tuning, espelir exhaust.

now, for the simple questions that i can't find:

1. what axles will i have to run with this setup
2. does the itr header fit on the b20 block, i heard that it won't fit over the bottom, and then i heard it will.
3. when buying the b20 longblock from hmotorsonline, it doesn't come with an alternator... can i reuse my d15 alternator, or will i have to pay for a new one?
4. what wiring harness would you guys reccomend?


i read this thread. a guy used LS Cams, LS ECU and LS Intake Manifold... worked for him.. i thought the ls cams and b20b cams were the same?
</TD></TR></TABLE>


1. b16 axles will do
2. fit, but will need machine work just like any other LS/Vtec
3. i bought mine from H-motors, no it doesnt come with an alternator but you can use the stock DX one bolts right up to it
4. depends, i used my stock dx wire harness...if you planning on going vtec i think going with a b16 wire harness, you cant go wrong
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (maskone909)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by maskone909 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a non tuned b20vtec with type r trans is better than b20 tuned imo</TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah, and a turbo dart h22 is better than a d15. whats the point.

i have like 3000 to spend.
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (JDMFreak)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMFreak &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


1. b16 axles will do
2. fit, but will need machine work just like any other LS/Vtec
3. i bought mine from H-motors, no it doesnt come with an alternator but you can use the stock DX one bolts right up to it
4. depends, i used my stock dx wire harness...if you planning on going vtec i think going with a b16 wire harness, you cant go wrong</TD></TR></TABLE>

#2, i said header, not head, lol
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
now, for the simple questions that i can't find:

1. what axles will i have to run with this setup
2. does the itr header fit on the b20 block, i heard that it won't fit over the bottom, and then i heard it will.
3. when buying the b20 longblock from hmotorsonline, it doesn't come with an alternator... can i reuse my d15 alternator, or will i have to pay for a new one?
4. what wiring harness would you guys reccomend?</TD></TR></TABLE>

1.) whichever ones match the transmission you end up with. I highly suggest B16's if you can get them for a reasonable price.
2.) if it does it's close because of the taller deck of the b20. I'd go with the stock B20 header until you can find an aftermarket one that you know works.
3.) you can use the D-alternator, although you can only hold it in with 2 bolts (not a real problem)
4.) whatever one goes with the ECU you're using (OBD compliance is important)
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Old 09-28-2004, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (Archidictus)

god damnit. i have 3000 to spend, and this is over that limit when all said and done.

weak.


i think im either just gonna go straight up b16 swap for now (no fun) or build a d series for 150 to the wheels. that would be great.
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Old 09-28-2004, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

now, for the simple questions that i can't find:

1. what axles will i have to run with this setup
2. does the itr header fit on the b20 block, i heard that it won't fit over the bottom, and then i heard it will.
3. when buying the b20 longblock from hmotorsonline, it doesn't come with an alternator... can i reuse my d15 alternator, or will i have to pay for a new one?
4. what wiring harness would you guys reccomend?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

1. any 94-00 teg or 99-00 si axles with intermeditate shaft from the same car as the axles
2. the b20 has THE SAME deck height as the b18. it just has a larger cylinder bore. the it-r header will fit. http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/....html
3. you can use a d-series altenator, but you'll need to shim out the top altenator bracket about 1" away from the block. it's ghetto as hell, but i did it 'till i could afford a b-series one. you can usually pick up a used b altenator for ~$40
4. use your stock harness that came with your car
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Old 09-29-2004, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (dantastic)

hrm. maybe this isn't such a bad idea.

i hope hmotorsonline can get me a b20z (146hp) instead of just a b20b (126hp)
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Old 09-29-2004, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

B20 yo.
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Old 09-29-2004, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

either way your gonna love it, i think it wouldnt matter if your gonna go with b20b or b20z dont just base on the HP becuz if you slap vtec on it, the internals need to be upgraded soon anyway
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hrm. maybe this isn't such a bad idea.

i hope hmotorsonline can get me a b20z (146hp) instead of just a b20b (126hp)</TD></TR></TABLE>

isnt the diff in the ecu for that extra HP?
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Old 10-02-2004, 11:14 AM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (ILuvJDMITR)

matter of fact, rumor has it you can mill the head a little &lt;.030&gt; and add some slightly higher compression pistons (10.6-1) for some big HP gains.... anyone care to elaborate?
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Old 10-02-2004, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (ILuvJDMITR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ILuvJDMITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">matter of fact, rumor has it you can mill the head a little &lt;.030&gt; and add some slightly higher compression pistons (10.6-1) for some big HP gains.... anyone care to elaborate?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd like to hear this.
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Old 10-02-2004, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

i just put a B20Z in my 93 hatch...
1)94-01 Teg,DOHC VTEC Del Sol,99-01 Si
2)i used a stock GSR manifold on my car.as said above,it's no different from an LS block.
3)i used a standard B-series alternator(get whatever OBD your engien harness will be to avoid having to rewire the plug)
4)i used the stock DX harness.that's about as easy as it gets.a 94-01 Teg non-VTEC harness would also be a good choice,but your stock harness is free
i used an OBDI LS ECU and the car runs fine.i'm sure i could tune a little more power out of it with a tool like the SAFC,but keep in mind that requires dyno time to really get the most out of it.my recommendation would be to go with the B16 tranny-you can get these off this board for $600ish,then if you have a little extra money(say if you decide not to get the SAFC),throw an OBX LSD in it.i just bought one for my turbo GSR coupe,and it looks high quality.i paid $350 shipped.trust me,with the torque the B20 has,low speed traction is an issue,so the LSD will be a big help.i'm going to put my GSR tranny with ITR LSD on the B20 after i install the OBX LSD in the coupe.
price breakdown....
i paid $900 for a 20k mile,US B20 Z from Import Auto Salvage.i've seen the JDM B20s go for $700.
i paid $400 for an LS tranny(fuel mileage was a concern since my beater sees LOTS of highway miles,but this tranny sucks so i'm going GSR).figure about $600 for a B16 tranny.
i paid $75 for an OBDI ECU
around $90 each for Autozone lifetime warranty axles.
i paid $20 from a member here for an LS intake mani.
figure about $200-$300 for all your replacement parts(timing belt,water pump,etc.)
i had a Fidanza flywheel and CM stage 3 clutch laying around,so i threw them in,but add about $500-$600 to get a good clutch and flywheel.a while back,R&D had a great deal on the Exedy light flywheel and clutch-something around $400 shipped,so look for a good deal like that.
that puts you right at about $2300 for the basic swap components.
that leaves you about $700 in your $3k budget to spend on your header,exhaust,LSD,etc.....seems do-able to me.
Chris

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Old 10-02-2004, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (jbell)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'd like to hear this. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have a friend that did this with a B18B and sees some respectable power, just wanna hear if it has been done with b20 yet
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Old 10-02-2004, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: b20 swap, SIMPLE questions... (ILuvJDMITR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ILuvJDMITR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have a friend that did this with a B18B and sees some respectable power, just wanna hear if it has been done with b20 yet</TD></TR></TABLE>
isn't the problem finding the B20 bore OEM(read:cheap)higher comp pistons?to the best of my knowledge aren't there just two OEM B20 pistons-the B20B and slightly higher compression B20Z pistons?when you get into aftermarket pistons,you're spending big money then.the LS allows you to use a variety of OEM Honda pistons to change compression,the B20 doesn't.i can't see how this motor would react any differently than any other motor to a big jump in compression-of course it should make an improvement.
Chris
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