B18C5 in 93 del Sol
10-18-2006, 02:53 PM
#1
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B18C in 93 del Sol
I'm trying figure out if I put a B18C (JDM) in my car that comes w/ ECU and harness, is there anything I have to modify? And what is the difference between 96-97 spec and 98-up spec?
Thanks,
Lambert
Thanks,
Lambert
10-18-2006, 03:01 PM
#2
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Re: B18C in 93 del Sol (LambertdelSol)
man, theres alot for all of us to learn.
The modifications that are going to be needed depend on the trim level that your del sol is. is it s, si, or vtec?
and the difference between the 96-97, and the 98 is just odb, i think but not sure.
The modifications that are going to be needed depend on the trim level that your del sol is. is it s, si, or vtec?
and the difference between the 96-97, and the 98 is just odb, i think but not sure.
10-18-2006, 03:10 PM
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Re: B18C in 93 del Sol (JdelMsolG)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JdelMsolG »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">man, theres alot for all of us to learn.
The modifications that are going to be needed depend on the trim level that your del sol is. is it s, si, or vtec?
and the difference between the 96-97, and the 98 is just odb, i think but not sure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that not entirely true......... to the OP, u must search search.
96-97 JDM ITRs are OBD2 and the 98+ are both obd2
as far as differences, 96-97 were mostly hand built (hand P&P, ect.), have a 4.40 final drive, and not as aggressive cam profile as the 98+, and are OBD2a.
the 98+'s were mostly machine built (Machine P&P, ect.), have a 4.7 final drive, and a more aggressive came profile than the 96-97 spec motors, and are OBD2b.
im sure there are a few more differences, but those are the main differences
The modifications that are going to be needed depend on the trim level that your del sol is. is it s, si, or vtec?
and the difference between the 96-97, and the 98 is just odb, i think but not sure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
that not entirely true......... to the OP, u must search search.
96-97 JDM ITRs are OBD2 and the 98+ are both obd2
as far as differences, 96-97 were mostly hand built (hand P&P, ect.), have a 4.40 final drive, and not as aggressive cam profile as the 98+, and are OBD2a.
the 98+'s were mostly machine built (Machine P&P, ect.), have a 4.7 final drive, and a more aggressive came profile than the 96-97 spec motors, and are OBD2b.
im sure there are a few more differences, but those are the main differences
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10-18-2006, 05:02 PM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
you do not need a conversion harness.
yes it is plug and play mostly.
there's a faq at the top of the page with very good information.
many of the people here chiming in haven't ever performed the swap.....so look for the faq.
yes it is plug and play mostly.
there's a faq at the top of the page with very good information.
many of the people here chiming in haven't ever performed the swap.....so look for the faq.
10-18-2006, 05:44 PM
#9
Re: B18C in 93 del Sol (touchmyHONDA)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by touchmyHONDA »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
the 98+'s were mostly machine built (Machine P&P, ect.), have a 4.7 final drive, and a more aggressive came profile than the 96-97 spec motors, and are OBD2b.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
ONLY 00-01 INTEGRA ARE OBD2B!!!!
the 98+'s were mostly machine built (Machine P&P, ect.), have a 4.7 final drive, and a more aggressive came profile than the 96-97 spec motors, and are OBD2b.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
ONLY 00-01 INTEGRA ARE OBD2B!!!!
10-18-2006, 05:57 PM
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Re: B18C in 93 del Sol (sicones)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sicones »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ONLY 00-01 INTEGRA ARE OBD2B!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
i believe honda changed over to OBD2B after 97.
i may be wrong though.
ONLY 00-01 INTEGRA ARE OBD2B!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
i believe honda changed over to OBD2B after 97.
i may be wrong though.
10-18-2006, 06:38 PM
#12
Re: B18C in 93 del Sol (knockout)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sicones »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ONLY 00-01 INTEGRA ARE OBD2B!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
and 99-00 civic are OBD2B, **** people LEARN something
ONLY 00-01 INTEGRA ARE OBD2B!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>
and 99-00 civic are OBD2B, **** people LEARN something
10-18-2006, 07:27 PM
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Re: Re: (HondaPartsHero)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaPartsHero »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you use an OBD1 ECU it'll plug and play at the ECU. You'll just have to add wiring for the knock sensor and the IAB's</TD></TR></TABLE>
If he wires up for ODB-I there won't be a knock sensor. Though he'll still have to wire up the IAB's.
If he wires up for ODB-I there won't be a knock sensor. Though he'll still have to wire up the IAB's.
10-19-2006, 04:11 AM
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Re: B18C in 93 del Sol (LambertdelSol)
man, there is a lot to learn! B engines wont bolt to D transmisions.
You will need a "complete swap", Engine, trans, axles, re-chip your ecu, plus shift likage, , throttle cable or fab a new bracket, radiator hose size is bigger on the b18c, the exhaust is bigger and the intake is bigger.
But then there is the fact that the jdm engine harness is backwards, (you know they drive of the wrong side of the road over there!), so you will have to cut and splice.
I took my old harness and cut and spliced the connectors from the jdm harness that were either too short to reach (vtec solonoid, air intake temp), or a different style plug, (injectors, alternator, distributor, o2 sensor).
The only trick was that the 93 si had a v-tec switch, but not a knock sensor, and the b18c used a knock sensor, but not the vtec switch. So (at the engine), I used the wire that went to the Vtec switch and routed it to the knock sensor, (near oil filter), and then inside the car, at the ecu connector, moved the wire that from pin (D6) , to (D3).
Start in the FAQ thread, then the HYBRID thread, everything that you need to is here somewhere, if you can find it.
Three months ago I couldn't even spell vtec.
Modified by tietze at 10:10 AM 10/19/2006
You will need a "complete swap", Engine, trans, axles, re-chip your ecu, plus shift likage, , throttle cable or fab a new bracket, radiator hose size is bigger on the b18c, the exhaust is bigger and the intake is bigger.
But then there is the fact that the jdm engine harness is backwards, (you know they drive of the wrong side of the road over there!), so you will have to cut and splice.
I took my old harness and cut and spliced the connectors from the jdm harness that were either too short to reach (vtec solonoid, air intake temp), or a different style plug, (injectors, alternator, distributor, o2 sensor).
The only trick was that the 93 si had a v-tec switch, but not a knock sensor, and the b18c used a knock sensor, but not the vtec switch. So (at the engine), I used the wire that went to the Vtec switch and routed it to the knock sensor, (near oil filter), and then inside the car, at the ecu connector, moved the wire that from pin (D6) , to (D3).
Start in the FAQ thread, then the HYBRID thread, everything that you need to is here somewhere, if you can find it.
Three months ago I couldn't even spell vtec.
Modified by tietze at 10:10 AM 10/19/2006
10-19-2006, 05:05 AM
#16
Former Moderator
Re: B18C in 93 del Sol (LambertdelSol)
God damn it I can't stand when people not only chime in with incorrect info - there are a few good replies mixed in with some really shitty ones in here. I won't name names.
1. You do not need a damn jumper harness for this swap - period.
First of all nobody in their right mind retains the stock ITR P73 ECU for a 92-95 Civic/Del Sol B18C(5) swap, so the first thing you do is sell the P73 ECU to someone with a 1996-up Civic who needs it, then have your stock P28 ECU rechipped with a nice program like the Kenji chip ( kenji211@tampabay.rr.com ) or if you have someone that can run Uberdata or Crome on it and tune it on a dyno then go that route.
2. Wiring
If you get the JDM engine ditch the JDM harness because it is for a RHD drive car and it requires stretching to fit, so don't bother.
Ideally you'd want to find a US-spec 96-01 Integra (ideally GS-R or Type R so you don't have to add VTEC plugs/wiring, but that's not hard to do anyways) engine harness, because that way you can keep the ITR injectors and distributor without having to rewire anything. I have a 1998 B18C5 in my 1992 Civic and I did not have to rewire one damn wire because I used the 1998 C5 harness and a rechipped P28 ECU. Even though the car you have is technically "OBD1" the "OBD2" Integra engine harness still plugs ight into your shock tower underhood chassis harness plugs:
Now on the JDM engine they don't use a VTEC oil pressure switch, so you can swap on your D16Z6 VTEC solenoid and it works the same, but it has the oil pressure switch, which the P28 ECU looks for. Do not buy any bullshit that people say about SOHC and DOHC VTEC solenoids being different - they are not. People kill me by saying they swapped on a B16A VTEC solenoid on their D16Z6 and it makes "VTEC kick harder!" and ****.
I also believe Kenji knows of a way to trick or either program his P28s to not look for the VTEC oil presure switch, but you'd have to PM him - his user name is Kenji.
In any event you do not have to wire a knock sensor if you run the P28 either - the P28 doesn't even look for it.
If you insist on using your D16Z6 engine harness there will be some splicing as the guy above me mentioned because the Type R engine has different injector plugs and distributor plugs, as well as the alternator plug too if I recall correctly.
The distributor is an easy fix - you simply need to convert the one plug ITR distributor to the two plugs to match your Z6 harness - these pics are of my wife's B16A2 dizzy (same as ITR plugs) in her 1992 Civic Si HB with the stock Z6 harness - the first pic is of my ITR distributor to illustrate what they look like unmodified:
You can get the other side of the "extra" OBD1 dizzy plug from a junk OBD1 dizzy of pretty much any kind. I wouldn't ruin your Z6 one by taking its plug.
Again if you run any 96-01 Integra engine harness you don't have to dick around with the dizzy wiring.
Also the ITR injectors won't plug into your Z6 harness, so you either run your Z6 injectors and quite possibly max them out, or find some OBD2 style matching injector plugs (you can cut them off the JDM harness if you have it) and splice them in by soldering the wires for the OBD2 style plugs onto the Z6 harness.
Also I'm pretty damn positive about the alternator plug not matching up, because on my wife's B16A2 I had to swap out the voltage regulator from an OBD1 style alternator to make the Z6 harness plug into the B16A2 alternator - I'm pretty sure this will be the case on that JDM ITR motor too, and if it is your solution might be easier if you have the JDM engine harness. simply cut the alternator plug off the JDM harness and again solder it in the place of the Z6 alternator plug on the Z6 harness.
Now as far as differences between the JDM 96-97 and 98-up engines the 98-up had a tubular 4-1 header on the engine, and the transmissions for the 98-up had a shorter 4.78 final drive (as opposed to the 4.400 found in pre JDM 98 spec) but taller 4th and 5th gears.
To make sure you don't get ripped off check the cylinder head stamp for the year when you get your engine - it's located right above the number four cylinder exhaust port - I can't find the pic i'm talking about, but the stamp is a circle with the year like this - 9l8 if it's a 98 spec, 9l6 if it's 96 spec, etc. etc.
Also because JDM GS-R and ITR engines have the exact same block code of B18C with no number suffix on the end you must make sure you got an ITR engine by looking for a few cues such as the PR3 head stamp above the number 2 cylinder exhaust port
Also note the intake manifold:
Oh and lastly a US-spec ITR swap would be 100% plug and play with its engine harness and a rechipped P28 - I know from experience:
As far as mounts, axles, etc. etc. do you have any specific questions?
I've done a few of these swaps before, so I'll be glad to help.
Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 9:17 AM 10/19/2006
1. You do not need a damn jumper harness for this swap - period.
First of all nobody in their right mind retains the stock ITR P73 ECU for a 92-95 Civic/Del Sol B18C(5) swap, so the first thing you do is sell the P73 ECU to someone with a 1996-up Civic who needs it, then have your stock P28 ECU rechipped with a nice program like the Kenji chip ( kenji211@tampabay.rr.com ) or if you have someone that can run Uberdata or Crome on it and tune it on a dyno then go that route.
2. Wiring
If you get the JDM engine ditch the JDM harness because it is for a RHD drive car and it requires stretching to fit, so don't bother.
Ideally you'd want to find a US-spec 96-01 Integra (ideally GS-R or Type R so you don't have to add VTEC plugs/wiring, but that's not hard to do anyways) engine harness, because that way you can keep the ITR injectors and distributor without having to rewire anything. I have a 1998 B18C5 in my 1992 Civic and I did not have to rewire one damn wire because I used the 1998 C5 harness and a rechipped P28 ECU. Even though the car you have is technically "OBD1" the "OBD2" Integra engine harness still plugs ight into your shock tower underhood chassis harness plugs:
Now on the JDM engine they don't use a VTEC oil pressure switch, so you can swap on your D16Z6 VTEC solenoid and it works the same, but it has the oil pressure switch, which the P28 ECU looks for. Do not buy any bullshit that people say about SOHC and DOHC VTEC solenoids being different - they are not. People kill me by saying they swapped on a B16A VTEC solenoid on their D16Z6 and it makes "VTEC kick harder!" and ****.
I also believe Kenji knows of a way to trick or either program his P28s to not look for the VTEC oil presure switch, but you'd have to PM him - his user name is Kenji.
In any event you do not have to wire a knock sensor if you run the P28 either - the P28 doesn't even look for it.
If you insist on using your D16Z6 engine harness there will be some splicing as the guy above me mentioned because the Type R engine has different injector plugs and distributor plugs, as well as the alternator plug too if I recall correctly.
The distributor is an easy fix - you simply need to convert the one plug ITR distributor to the two plugs to match your Z6 harness - these pics are of my wife's B16A2 dizzy (same as ITR plugs) in her 1992 Civic Si HB with the stock Z6 harness - the first pic is of my ITR distributor to illustrate what they look like unmodified:
You can get the other side of the "extra" OBD1 dizzy plug from a junk OBD1 dizzy of pretty much any kind. I wouldn't ruin your Z6 one by taking its plug.
Again if you run any 96-01 Integra engine harness you don't have to dick around with the dizzy wiring.
Also the ITR injectors won't plug into your Z6 harness, so you either run your Z6 injectors and quite possibly max them out, or find some OBD2 style matching injector plugs (you can cut them off the JDM harness if you have it) and splice them in by soldering the wires for the OBD2 style plugs onto the Z6 harness.
Also I'm pretty damn positive about the alternator plug not matching up, because on my wife's B16A2 I had to swap out the voltage regulator from an OBD1 style alternator to make the Z6 harness plug into the B16A2 alternator - I'm pretty sure this will be the case on that JDM ITR motor too, and if it is your solution might be easier if you have the JDM engine harness. simply cut the alternator plug off the JDM harness and again solder it in the place of the Z6 alternator plug on the Z6 harness.
Now as far as differences between the JDM 96-97 and 98-up engines the 98-up had a tubular 4-1 header on the engine, and the transmissions for the 98-up had a shorter 4.78 final drive (as opposed to the 4.400 found in pre JDM 98 spec) but taller 4th and 5th gears.
To make sure you don't get ripped off check the cylinder head stamp for the year when you get your engine - it's located right above the number four cylinder exhaust port - I can't find the pic i'm talking about, but the stamp is a circle with the year like this - 9l8 if it's a 98 spec, 9l6 if it's 96 spec, etc. etc.
Also because JDM GS-R and ITR engines have the exact same block code of B18C with no number suffix on the end you must make sure you got an ITR engine by looking for a few cues such as the PR3 head stamp above the number 2 cylinder exhaust port
Also note the intake manifold:
Oh and lastly a US-spec ITR swap would be 100% plug and play with its engine harness and a rechipped P28 - I know from experience:
As far as mounts, axles, etc. etc. do you have any specific questions?
I've done a few of these swaps before, so I'll be glad to help.
Modified by B18C5-EH2 at 9:17 AM 10/19/2006
10-19-2006, 05:15 AM
#17
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good response. I did a gsr swap into my 93 del sol, and the guide that B18C5-EH2 posted is exactly what I used. Save yourself any headaches and disregard all other posts on this thread, I can't believe how much BS I just read, lol
10-19-2006, 05:57 AM
#18
Former Moderator
Re: (dorifto_83)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dorifto_83 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good response. I did a gsr swap into my 93 del sol, and the guide that B18C5-EH2 posted is exactly what I used. Save yourself any headaches and disregard all other posts on this thread, I can't believe how much BS I just read, lol</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wouldn't go as far to say ignore all other posts - there were a few good ones mixed in, but the OP won't know which are which.
It's just annoying that people emphasize the wrong points such as jumper harnesses, OBD this and that, and then stay on that topic for like 10 replies when in reality it's of such little importance to the swap seeing as how you ditch the ITR computer and run a re-chipped P28 anyways.
I wouldn't go as far to say ignore all other posts - there were a few good ones mixed in, but the OP won't know which are which.
It's just annoying that people emphasize the wrong points such as jumper harnesses, OBD this and that, and then stay on that topic for like 10 replies when in reality it's of such little importance to the swap seeing as how you ditch the ITR computer and run a re-chipped P28 anyways.
10-19-2006, 06:40 AM
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Re: B18C in 93 del Sol (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
To make sure you don't get ripped off check the cylinder head stamp for the year when you get your engine - it's located right above the number four cylinder exhaust port - I can't find the pic i'm talking about, but the stamp is a circle with the year like this - 9l8 if it's a 98 spec, 9l6 if it's 96 spec, etc. etc.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
THis is what B18C5-EH2 is talking about
Sorry for my crappy pic
To make sure you don't get ripped off check the cylinder head stamp for the year when you get your engine - it's located right above the number four cylinder exhaust port - I can't find the pic i'm talking about, but the stamp is a circle with the year like this - 9l8 if it's a 98 spec, 9l6 if it's 96 spec, etc. etc.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
THis is what B18C5-EH2 is talking about
Sorry for my crappy pic
10-19-2006, 04:36 PM
#21
Former Moderator
Re: Re: (LambertdelSol)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LambertdelSol »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Would this be the same w/ a b16b (type-r)?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes it would, but a B16B is kind of an overpriced swap because for less money you can get a JDM GS-R engine swap with an LSD tranny and probably make the same whp but kill the B16B on torque.
Yes it would, but a B16B is kind of an overpriced swap because for less money you can get a JDM GS-R engine swap with an LSD tranny and probably make the same whp but kill the B16B on torque.
10-19-2006, 04:46 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (B18C5-EH2)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C5-EH2 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I wouldn't go as far to say ignore all other posts - there were a few good ones mixed in, but the OP won't know which are which.
It's just annoying that people emphasize the wrong points such as jumper harnesses, OBD this and that, and then stay on that topic for like 10 replies when in reality it's of such little importance to the swap seeing as how you ditch the ITR computer and run a re-chipped P28 anyways.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you see, this is why i enjoy reading your posts. i learn something everyday.
B18C5-EH2, your the man, man!
if it wasn't for the little people like you this site will be gone.
SAVE HONDA-TECH
I wouldn't go as far to say ignore all other posts - there were a few good ones mixed in, but the OP won't know which are which.
It's just annoying that people emphasize the wrong points such as jumper harnesses, OBD this and that, and then stay on that topic for like 10 replies when in reality it's of such little importance to the swap seeing as how you ditch the ITR computer and run a re-chipped P28 anyways.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you see, this is why i enjoy reading your posts. i learn something everyday.
B18C5-EH2, your the man, man!
if it wasn't for the little people like you this site will be gone.
SAVE HONDA-TECH
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