SteamedRice

hey guys, i'm pretty new to honda-tech. i'm an auto technician in the making and i take in as much info as possible. i've searched the forums for a thread like this one and can't find one, so forgive me if this is a repost; i hate 'em too.

i love the clean look that the JDM style can give a car so i'm picking H-T for this thread. i've ordered some OEM bumpers to replace my old beat up ones, mugen style ABS lip and some side moldings cuz my CX dont got 'em. along with some other minor mods to help my rusty POS look a little better. i'm basically doing a tear down and rebuild in stages that would allow me to still drive the car since it's my means of getting around.

as much as i love a clean looking car, im more of a motor head, and to keep this thread on topic i'll explain my next step and the questions i have about it. if this turns out to be a good thread i'll post pics and update as much as possible in the next 3 or 4 months when i predict the project will be done.

i love B series motors and i love boost. so i think to myself, 'what could be better than a turbo b18?' so i've been looking into either the GSR (b18c1) or the ITR (b18c5) and i'm torn between the two. i would hope to use this thread as update on the progression of my project and some advice from you guys here. ok, let's assume money is NOT an issue, (and if it was i woulda swapped in a b20 and called it a day) i'm willing to burn my wallet on this one for the sake of central jersey's rep and the H-T community lol.

in hopes to build a street monster, my assumption was to go ITR turbo. but the most popular turbo teg engine i've seen was the GSR, and i'm guessing it has something to do with the compression ratio differences when under boost? i guess i'm asking for you guys to school me on what the best engine for boost is, effects of forced induction with vtec spool, stroker vs. sleeving... the works. i know some of you guys have the gsr-t, and i think i've seen a guy on here with a naturally aspired ITR.

so let me know what you think of my possible set up, im open for harsh criticism and disses. if this is a repost again, sorry but i think it can be a decent thread if it isn't, thanks for the advice in advanced.

my current set up is my bone stock cx chassis with a 95 dx motor
and a list of things i've ordered/going to order for my B series bubble beast. it's up to your answers, comments and advice to help me make this concept a reality:

-fixing rusted 1/4 panels and shaving antenna
-black 1 piece halo headlights + 6000K HID kit (i know not JDM... but i like -them lol)
-smoked amber side markers for new fenders
-full mugen style lip kit (going to be painted deal with it )
-tokico illumina shocks + tein S tech springs and progress camber
-RS*R exhaust magic system
-black 16" GT3 rota wheels
-JDM CTR power folding side mirrors
-LS rear drum-to-rotor conversion
-OEM style CF hood and hatch and Spoon style rear spoiler
-SI blue paint

-more goods for the interior but power and a clean look is my priority.

prettylew

i run a N/A b18c5 in my cx and i LOVE it. personally id go with a b18c5 swap because the motors are hand built, come with a ported and polished head, better cams, stronger pistons. and the fantastic S80 transmission with LSD.

run a b18c5 with just 7-8 pounds of boost on a decent sized turbo and prepare for around 270whp. which is plenty for the streets. AND you still will have enough compression for it not to feel like a dog off the boost.

but im satisfied as it is with a N/A b18c5

SteamedRice

yeah, i've noticed that a lot of the boost applications for the ITR engine only has like 9 pounds of boost max... not that i would want much more than that, would be nice to have the engine for a bit longer

prettylew

well i think everyone picks the C1 to boost because its alot cheaper to buy in the first place. and then strip it and build it. no one wants to strip down and molest a perfectly good C5 motor.

BlakeJ53

iTrader: (1)

I have a C1 why waste the money on a C5. I can do everything to a C1 and better than a C5 ever wood be.

SteamedRice

so you would suggest the GSR cuz the Type R is so much more? if both motors had similar modification i assume the GSR would benefit more since honda already squeezed the extra 25HP out with a tuned head, huh. what about tranny... most motor stores online have the LSD option now. i think that's a good sub for the S80 from the C5 don't you think?

prettylew

i just think the C5's are built better with better parts. there is a reason why they cost more.

its like sayin youd rather buy a 2003 mustang mach1 motor. over a 2003 cobra motor, yea theyre both DOHC but the cobra is hand built with all forged internals.

im not saying the C5 is all forged, im just saying that theres a reason a C5 costs more. i think the gears are stronger in the S80 as well.

prettylew

c5 has a better intake manifold, WAY better than the C1 design, the head design is superior. theres a reason p72 heads didnt go on the c5 motors. the pistons are stronger, the head is already ported, cams are better, oil and water pumps have a higher flow.

so by the time you get the C1 as fast and as reliable as a c5 you already spent the extra cash u saved by buying the c1. machine shop, pistons, water and oil pump, cams, head porting, DYNO TUNING!.

and your still left with the bullshit GSR tranny.

idno. maybe im biased to the argument. but i believe my points are valid and backed by facts.

who wants to buy a good running motor and before u even swap it, tear it down and send it to the machine shop? then spend weeks installing and tuning it.

you buy a C5 then you can drop it in, still make a 13 second pass in the quarter mile while saving for boost. then add the turbo setup later on and tune it, and it should last a while. if it blows up. then you get to build like you were gonna with the c1.

SteamedRice

makes mucho sense-o. that 200hp out the box sounds nice tho lol. i dont plan on going with stock head internals so i could do a lot more with the extra gwap if i copped the GSR . the GSR is cheaper, but why is it so much better for boost?

prettylew

well, it has lower compression.

put it this way. the lower the compression to start with the more boost you can run without detonation. which in turn can equal more max power.

so if your planning on building the motor before u even drop it in then get the C1. and if your gonna boost it for sure than get 9 to 1 compression forged pistons, some forged Hbeam rods, use OEM honda bearings and rings theyre the best for these motors, then have the crank knife edged , and have the entire rotating assembly balanced and blueprinted .
then port and polish the head, get some bigger valves. and some big cams for more air flow. some cam gears for tuning,
get a hondata S300. and have it DYNO TUNED!! very important!

as far as the turbo setup. a bigger turbo will make more power at the same psi as a smaller turbo because of the CFM's it pushes.

so get a quality ball bearing turbo. a nice ram-horn manifold. and a QUALITY intercooler no ebay ****.

oh yea and look into getting a oil catch can to replace your PCV system, because your stock PCV does not like boost! lol.

SteamedRice

do stroker kits hurt max power or add turbo lag?

prettylew

hmm? i dont think it would add any lag. but the thing i would do is have the C1 sleeved if you want more displacement.

and i personally wouldnt want a LONGER stroke. especially at 8500 RPMS. lol.

SteamedRice

lololololol, wouldn't knifing the crankshaft ruin structural integrity? and i'm guessing this either a weight reduction of the crank counterweights or a reduction of parasitic drag caused from the crank spinning thru oil?? sorry, i gotta ask all this shyte so i dont mess up when i build ya know?

prettylew

knifing the crank shaft doesnt mean grind it down to nothing! lol. they sharpen the edges of the crank thus lightening it a lil bit, AND like u said reducing the drag when it goes thru the oil. so when its knife edges it CUTS thru the oil like a knife. take a tub of water, and take a butter knife and hit the knife into the water widest side first. see how it makes a BIG splash and takes some force before it gets under the water. no take the sharp side and do it again and it makes almost no splash and slices right thru the water with minimal effort.

and dont worry about the whole "well if it doesnt splash then it wont oil the piston skirts!"

c1's and c5's have oil squirters!!! LS motors dont! woohoo go LS/vtec lol. i ****** hate LS/vtec motors. theyre SOOO unreliable.

prettylew

and you dont HAVE TO knife edge the crank, just thats what i personally would do if money was no object. id build the motor right the first time. and squeeze every ounce of power out of it.

SteamedRice

i hear you on that one, wouldnt want to pull the motor apart 100 times

Mr. Giggles

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prettylew &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> woohoo go LS/vtec lol. i ****** hate LS/vtec motors. theyre SOOO unreliable. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Wrong.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prettylew &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so get a quality ball bearing turbo. a nice ram-horn manifold. and a QUALITY intercooler no ebay ****.

oh yea and look into getting a oil catch can to replace your PCV system, because your stock PCV does not like boost! lol.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Whats wrong with an egay IC?? I personally have one on my boosted gsr and it works great..It's a great place to save money in a build, search throughout HT and the majority of searches you will find that ebay IC's are overall a pretty good buy..

SteamedRice

i think what he meant was dont get an intercooler made in someones basement, get a known brand

SteamedRice

btw, whats the set up on your GSR-T?

Mr. Giggles

Lolz do yourself a favor:

Go to ebay.com
Type in "honda intercooler"
Tell me the name of a brand you recognize...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SteamedRice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">btw, whats the set up on your GSR-T?</TD></TR></TABLE>

T3/TO4E w/ V-Band
Tial 44mm WG
Apexi BOV
Boost Werks Top Mount Mani
Custom 3in Down Pipe
Custom Charge Pipes
Egay Front Mount
Studs
Cp pistons
550 injectors
cometic hg

SteamedRice

for you folks at home &gt;&gt; http://search.ebay.com/search/...gory0=

looks like i coulda made it in my basement lol, either way i dont think he meant any harm by it

prettylew

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SmrCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wrong.

Whats wrong with an egay IC?? I personally have one on my boosted gsr and it works great..It's a great place to save money in a build, search throughout HT and the majority of searches you will find that ebay IC's are overall a pretty good buy..</TD></TR></TABLE>


all i ever here and SEE is ls/vtecs or b20/vtecs blowing smoke, buring oil. or blowin head gaskets. they suck. plain and simple.

and whats wrong with an ebay intercooler are u freakin kiddin me right now? then why would you upgrade a stock evo intercooler? i mean if an intercooler is an intercooler regardless? why would anyone upgrade their intercooler from stock?

ever hear of heat soak? how about backin it up with some facts? i can tell you right now a high quality intercooler will FLOW better and cool faster than any ebay intercooler.

id never trust my motor to a ebay intercooler.

SteamedRice

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prettylew &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

id never trust my motor to a ebay intercooler.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

what if you have an ebay motor? then what? lol

prettylew

a shitty no name intercooler, can have more boost drop which in turn will make your turbo work harder to make the same psi it wouldve made with the better intercooler.

and a shitty intercooler wont cool the air as good either. cooler denser air=more power.

prettylew

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SteamedRice &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

what if you have an ebay motor? then what? lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol. GOOD question.


only Ebay intercooler id buy is one thats made by spearco lol