ryanangelo212

INFO: i purchased this car not running (90 teg), but with the b16a2 from 99 si (which is why im in this category). after a few days i got the motor running, but extremely sluggish, no power at all, gained rpm's very slowly. the car looked to be at least a tooth out of time, so im in the process of resetting time. the previous owner had changed the belt as it sat, it was never run with it until i did. compression is still good in all pistons.

QUESTION: the top cams wont line up. i set them with the notches together but the belt pulls it out of time. "up" does not seem to be the same position for both cams. any ideas on what couldve caused this or how i can go about fixing it?

ryanangelo212

this is a pic of the cams when i manually turned them to where the valves are all closed, where the car technically should be in time, and adjusted both cams inward a very small amount so the belt fits in place. as you can see, the middle notches are "close" but not nearly as they should be and the up notches are way off.
SOMEONE PLEASE OFFER SOME INSIGHT

EKstallion

If you line up the notches perfectly what could have happened is that the belt is stretched. For the 100$ it is to buy a new belt its more than worth buying a new one. Also when putting the belt on make sure you eat up all of the slack when putting it onto the intake side gear than then pull it tight over the second.

-__-

yea you should buy a new belt, re-tension it, and line it up again.
*and looking at the picture, that sh** is WAY off. run it like that and you could bend some valves.

ryanangelo212

heres another pic of the cams when the "up" marks are both even. its very hard to explain, but take a look and let me know what you think please.

ryanangelo212

also, if i cant get this perfect for some reason, what would be the best way to run it with timing advanced or behind?

christian7750

It just looks like you needed to move the intake cam one tooth over on the belt.

delsolproblems

Don't use the up marks when setting valve timing. The up marks are just to let you know which arm of the sprocket needs to point in a generally upward direction. You don't need to have the up marks perfectly perpendicular to the ground or head or anything. The upper plastic timing cover is used to set the cam gear timing. When the crank is at TDC (either set by the timing pointer on the lower plastic timing cover & the TDC mark on the balancer, or by pointing the crank timing gear at the TDC mark on the oil pump housing), the little notches on either side of each cam gear should form a straight line across both gears that is parallel to the top of the upper timing cover. Don't worry about the position of the valves- with the key in each cam gear, the cam will be where it should be when the cam gears are.

-__-

^^this guy is correct. line up the two lines on the cam gears PARALLEL to the line on the timing cover. if you have notiming cover (like me), line the two lines up with the cylinder head deck. also, be careful about spinning the motor with the cam in. you risk bending valves. if u unbolt the cams, you can spin the crank.

canadaek

not 100% sure but the older motor's had a hole throw the bearing cap right behind the cam gear's and a matching hole in the cam so that you could put a pin in to hold the cam's in place well you put the belt on. don't know if they had that in 99 or not if you roll the crank over by hand you can usally tell if a valve touch's just don't pull really hard cause it doen't take alot to bend them. good luck

abs0Lut

I didn't know the crank could be at top dead center, I'll help clarify, PISTON!

delsolproblems

If you want to clarify it for everyone, you'll need to say that the crank being at TDC means that when the crankshaft is lined up with the TDC mark, piston #1 is at Top Dead Center, not just "PISTON is at TDC."

ryanangelo212

of course, it is missing the top of the plastic timing cover, as the previous owner had hacked it off (go figure).

is that the best way to go about timing it then, i just want to make sure im precise.

delsolproblems

Yes. It can be a little trickier that way when the motor is in the car. Get a good straight edge, hold it against the gears, lined up with the timing notches, eyeball it from a few angles with good lighting and you'll be golden. Don't forget to never turn the crank backwards, just counterclockwise. Rotate it gingerly and stop if you feel any resistance.

-__-

^^couldn't have said it any better. GL with ur car and post if u get it running.

ryanangelo212

okay, thank you very much, i will give that i try first thing tomorrow and post a pic to make sure i am understanding you correctly, last thing i wanna do is bend vavles.

ryanangelo212

here's my first attempt on this method, which i have gathered to be lining the little notchs in the middle of the cams into a straight line. does this look right?

canadaek

looks ok but make sure you tighten up belt . start at crank then intake cam and so on to keep the slack on the tensioner side.

delsolproblems

Put the belt around the crank sprocket (remembering the inner belt guide) and thread the belt through the water pump and tensioner. Make sure the belt is only holding on to outer edge of the crank sprocket, water pump gear and tensioner- this makes it easier to get the belt over the cams. Hold the crank steady at TDC and pull the belt over just the outer edge of the exhaust cam gear. If the crank is still held steady, the exhaust cam won't move. Still holding the belt taut, turn the intake cam slightly to line up the teeth (pry it with a screwdriver if you can't move it by hand), hold it in that position and pull the tension out of the tensioner side of the belt. You can have someone pull the tensioner out while you do this or disconnect the tensioner spring so you have extra slack to work with. As you pull the belt tight and hold the intake cam gear in place, slide the belt over the intake cam. Push the whole belt fully onto all gears, install the outer belt guide, reset the belt tension, then install the balancer and timing covers. I think that covers the whole installation. Yes your inner notches seem to be lined up but I can't see the outer ones. As long as they are even with a straightedge, they are ok.

1 sLoW hAtCh

first of all check that ur tensioner is on properly. Then pull the tension all the way down n tighten the 14mm bolt, then make sure the crank is line up with the triangular mark on the block the gear down at the crank should have a slit in it n line that up with the triangular mark that determine TDC on No.1, next put a 12mm wrench on the cam bolt n move it slightly that the notches on the gear lines up with the top of head (don't use the top of the back timing belt cover as a marking point), if it lines up with the head there should be a little hole on top of the cam bearing cap about 5 inches away from the cam gears n with that u should b able to insert a skinny long bolt or maybe a small allen wrench in and that would hold the cam in place both cams have that, then put the belt on starting with the crank, tensioner, water pump, intake cam and then exhaust cam. pull as much slack off the belt as you wrap around till you get to the exhaust cam, if it won't line up you can try moving the exhaust cam slightly untill the belt slides on. Once you have the belt on, loosen the tensioner bolt and turn the crank until all the slack is off the belt then tighten the bolt, then turn the crank one full revolution untill you come back to TDC and recheck that all markings are all lines up, if they are then you're good. Don't use the up mark as a set up point. Hope this helps. If i'm wrong let me know fellows...

davidk20ek4

what i have done is set the right cam gear alittle off...( little to the right)... so that way when i tighten the belt it pulls it into place....but i have only done this with toda cam gears.....it worked great for me.....

ryanangelo212

the belt's on now, still in perfect time. havent tensioned it yet, because this is my first time with timing i want a second opinion on the lower crank just to make sure im good before i start her up. ill let you know how it goes, thanks!

Jockone

What do you mean about the crank if the crank is not set then the engine is not timed.

Haynes manual says install belt on the crank then tensioner,waterpump,exhaust camshaft then intake cam.don't have my autodata timingbelt book in front of me so not sure what order they say.

In some of your pics it looks like you are trying to start the belt on the camshafts and that is not the way to go.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.

ryanangelo212

no, the belt is on and from what i believe is in time, i just want another opinion in the crank just to make sure its perfect, although im 99% sure it is.

Jockone

If the notch on the crank gear lines up with the arrow on the oil pump then the crank is right.