Records

Hey guys, i am new to this forum, and new to the whole honda tuning, since i've turned 18 recently, i am already looking for a EK b16 obd1 n stuff
but i want it to run all motor daily, i am pretty much looking for 180+/-WHP?
It seems not too much, but not too less either. what would be a great way to start? i have around to spend €6000, on the car and the built itself, but the budget will grow monthly

Only thing that i am thinking off so far is a spoon N1 exhaust, would that be a good idea? for all motor, and i heard if you start with spoon, you should basically get everything spoon, ecu n stuff

Thanks for the help

(I am planning on using it for an daily drive, so i wont want it to be too loud )

ricky00

if u want around 200whp.. get ctr pistons or (any high comp) skunk2 pro2 cams... intake mani, good set of header, 2.5 piping, dual valve springs.. and with a really good tuner.. u make easily 200whp

ricky00

and throw the n1 away if you dont wanna to be loud.. when i think of n1 i think of fart can.. get a ws2 or something.. it sound nice and deep

Records

Alright, well the spoon is nothing like an fart can ;P i just find it a little loud for city driving lmao, what happends if i put an silencer on it btw? will it **** up the flow?

Im pretty much looking for a deep, sporty sound but not too loud as for example this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3hdJtW0tO8
i find that WAY too loud for holland ;P

Red_Army

wtf...no don't even start with spoon anything. you'll be paying 2k for something worth 20 bucks.
especially an ECU. get a tuneable one.

go check out the all motor forum and look at 200+ b16 builds. some are very easy. look at their parts list and go from there.

the ws2 unless its a universal will mess up air flow so to speak.
in short.
headwork,3in exhaust and intake with vstack, 500+ header or rep(it'll be less then 5), pnps, tuneable ecu(crome, neptune, hondata), get it tuned.

Records

Alright thanks, i'll do that but why is an 3 inch exhaust required?
Wouldnt that be insanely loud? =P I'd like to keep my car pretty much standard and not too big of a exhaust, so not an too loud sound either, any specific type of exhaust recommended? im willing to pay money for it, just not much more then an spoon exhaust
thanks for the info though =]

What are the pro's & Con's of Hondata, Neptune, Crome Ecus?

Thanks

Edit: Its for a daily use in holland

Libertariat

You've got no remote Idea what you're talking about and are just shooting magazine information out of your rear end.
______

3" exhaust will see gains all across the band on any motor. d16/b16/b18/b20/h22/k20.
The "too large exhaust" myth was perpetuated for years.


If you really want to attain 200whp+ goals you'll save yourself a lot of money by starting with a bigger displacement engine. If you're prepared to tear down the engine anyway, might as well make it even easier and do a b20vtec build and do it right.

Don't be brand loyal. Spoon is expensive and isn't always the best part. Be loyal to what works best and buy that instead. Spend a lot of time reading the veterans in the all motor forum.

Spoon n1 isn't going to be quiet unless you run serious resonators. There are also good mufflers out there that don't have a $100 JDM tax.

As far as tuning, use whatever your tuner recommends and is good at using. That is far more important than the brand of software.

In all seriousness please start with a larger engine for an all motor platform. You're really going to have a lot more trouble using such a small engine for high goals like that. Even an h22 in stock form, with .4L more displacement, doesn't get close to 200whp in stock form. With solid cams and a header you can get over 200whp.

Records

Alright thanks for the info, but i'll keep it an 1.6L, perhaps if i change the goal to 170-180WHP would that be possible without TOO much work etc?
Will 170-180WHP be reliable in a b16? and will it affect the fuel economy real bad? thanks

Libertariat

Why are you so intent on the b16?

Records

My friends all run 1.6's and theyre in some kinda "group" together n stuff, and i dont stick out you know
Plus an 1.8 or something will have a bigger? fuel economy then an 1.6L right
correct me if im wrong

DumpdEJ6

For daily driving on the highway, my B16a RPM was sky high. I'm told that its nothing for that engine to chill at 5k+rpms all day, but I didn't like it. Plus (and this is especially important for DDing) the B16 lacks torque at "normal" operating RPM.

If you basically NEVER want to drive at anything under 3k rpm, you'll be fine. I personally would take a B18 ANY DAY over the B16 for daily driving.

Libertariat

There's plenty of people with h22 motors getting 35mpg with the stock engine.

b16s often wind up getting worse gas mileage because you have to keep the pedal on the floor to drive around town due to such a lack of low end power. Most bigger engines get much better fuel economy around down because you aren't bouncing off the rev limiter to keep up with the soccer mom in her Tahoe next to you.

And you have the worst reasons for choosing arguably the worst n/a platform.

You might as well really stand out and keep the d16 and run it at 14.1:1

That would really be impressive.

Records

Hi ryd, thanks for ur reply, but what do you mean by the sentence i "quoted"?
that like its not good to chill at 5k rpm all day? meaning it has to be higher or lower (lower i suppose) anyway its for both normal daily driving/streetracing so its gonna be a mix of both things, im planning on being careful with my 1st car so i wont be driving at 5k rpm all the time

Btw what does DD mean? Im kinda new to the honda civic game thx

Libertariat

You won't have a choice at the 5k rpm thing, that's natural for b16/ITR transmissions to be at ~4200 rpms while cruising at 70-75. So if you ride down the highway at 80 you'll likely see ~5000rpm.

It's a high strung transmission for a high strung engine. The car would be slow as hell without the short gears because b16s are gutless.

DD = Daily driver

Records

Lol :O im completely stunned right now, from the things i've heard/seen the b16 is actually a pretty good engine.. so basically what you're tryna say that b16 is not the way to go for DD, n/a 180whp~?
i actually wanted longer gears but that probably was a stupid idea

2 questions though:
1."It's a high strung transmission for a high strung engine. The car would be slow as hell without the short gears because b16s are gutless."
Is that in a positive or a negative way (highstrung/gutless part)
I'm sorry for the question, but my english aint 100% since im from holland

2.Would a 1.8L 200whp have the same fuel economy as an 1.6l 200whp? pretty stupid question but yea >.<

Thx

Edit: I wont be driving highway quite that often, it'll most likely be alot of city driving

Libertariat

you can get 180whp without totally tearing down the engine, but you'll do it a lot cheaper with a higher displacement engine.

High strung is fine for road racing, but you don't want to have to rev that high all the time to drive around down. a b16 is essentially a d16y8 until you get to 7,000rpm.

More displacement is always going to mean more power made down low. The less you have to rev the car the less fuel you'll use to go somewhere. It's a pretty basic principle but it's a solid rule of thumb.

Records

Ahhh, thanks for clearing that up man ;P
Let me give you some information about myself n how i would like my car to be:
Basically i dont care whether there isnt much torque below 7k Rpms, cos im just chilling and driving, if i want to be fast, i'll just floor the pedal (over 7k rpm) which will create more torque (right?) im not the type of guy that wants to show off their car, and take off real fast every traffic light n stuff, i'd prefer just driving it like a normal car, unless im in the mood to have some fun. it'll just be normal city driving and the price isnt really that big of a deal, for the parts! but i dont want to pay e.g 75 euros each day for fuel, because my car is a alcoholic you know

Thanks for the help man
its greatly appreciated <3 i've learned quite a bit already haha

Edit: Isnt it like possible to have short 1st-4th gears, and then the 5th a little longer then normal? which will allow me to cruise at 3-4k rpm at 65-75?

Libertariat

No, your torque band will stay about the same all across the power band. it will gradually go up accross, but not significantly. You might go from 115 torque at 3000rpm and 134 torque at 8,000rpm.

b16 will certainly be fun, and that's primarily due to the gearing that the b16 transmission has. Put a gsr or b18b transmission on it and it will be slow as all get out.

I'm serious, get at least a 1.8L, it has so much more potential and will make more power than a b16 with an intake, header, and exhaust. Probably still by a fair margin.

There is no replacement for displacement. Even that .2L will make everything you do to a b18 more effective.

apexi_rsx

you want 200hp why not bbuy a motor that already has that hp from the factory like a b18c5 or k20a2/z1? by the time u rebuild a b16 u will probably have the same about of money into it.

Records

Alright thats true, but im not neccesarily looking for insane speed, tho it'll just be my first car & my first honda, so i thought i'd would be a good starters engine? ofcourse once i've own the b16 for a little while i can always consider getting an 1.8 or 2.0 who knows and i can bore it out right? once im ready for it i'd rather start small and then work my way up.. but thats just what i think though
you're the smarter one here atm xD

Btw.. b16 gets more tq at 7k~, does that mean i should get an ecu which will allow me to rev higher? or will that f*ck up the engine too early

Libertariat

You're all over the place. Settle down before you waste your money. That's all I'm trying to help you with here.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Do you want to be swapping the engine out in a year or so after spending thousands trying to be happy with the b16?

Revs don't equal power. Reving the engine a few hundred rpm high isn't going to do anything. I wish there were a way to put you behind the seat of a car with a stock b16, and a car with a stock b18c5.

The cars wouldn't even be close.

Records

Yea unfortanetly i havent ;/
Anyway srry for being "all over the place"
Im the type of guy who wants the best ïtems/parts available (in games and in real life)
So ím basically doing ALOT of research before imma start building up my b16 & im 100% certain i'll stay with b16 longer then a year possibly a couple of years, depending on how long the engine will last.

& Alright, i thought since b16 is getting more tq at 7k+ it'll be better to make it rev to for example 9k (basically just as high as possible for b16) so you'll have the power for a longer period of time

Libertariat

That's a common misnomer, people who look for power at the top of the power band spend lots of time there. I.e. road racing and drag racing.

Reving to the top of the power band for power isn't fun for daily driving.

It's not much different than a b16, just more rpms to go through.

Records

Alrighty then, well i'll be doing both roadracing/daily driving
but thanks for all the useful advice & information about b16's but i think i'll be fine with my current decision, but do you maybe know how to achieve 180+/- WHP in a b16?
im looking for quality stuff

Thanks!

Libertariat

Road racing as in on a track? Like maintaining 50-70mph on long entry turns?

180whp in a b16 is going to require extensive headwork and a solid set of cams. You're looking at ~$3000 in labor/parts. At a minimum. Power you could achieve with minimal effort with a larger engine.

For the money you spend making 180whp 130tq on a b16 you could build an h2b and make 220whp and 170tq.