Another Korbach review. (Not all its craked up to be)
10-23-2004, 03:19 PM
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Another Korbach review. (Not all its craked up to be)
Ok first of all like many people, and my friends, I was skeptical that such a little piece of metal would do anything. And would it be worth the high price.
There were two other variables that went thru my mind when reading other people's reviews.
1. What kind of drivers were these people who praise the frame locks? What level of skill would their ability to drive their car be? (cause we all know that there are people who have cars that they can't drive, like ferrari owners who think 'Oh its a ferrari which means its a super car and can do anything'"
2. What kind of suspension were these people using prior? How well did their car handle previously?
Well I would consider my driving ability above par and my KYB AGX Skunk2 isnt too bad of a setup. It's no Apexi N1 or Tein coilovers. Or other better, more reputable suspension companies.
With those combinations, my driving ability and my suspension, my car handles pretty well and not just from my biased point of view.
So I got the Frame locks under a group buy, Still pricey at around 160 (still waiting for my refund though cause we pay full price and get a refund after)
Upon opening the package everything is encased in precut foam inserts. Which is nice but unnecessary. Extra initial cost of the product that jsut doesnt need to be spent. They provide the necessary drill bits which again is nice but not necessary. I have some of these bits and if needed I could go to Home Depot and buy them and return them when Im done.
So I installed them and drove my car. yes I cannot deny they didnt stiffen up the front end of my car. And the handling of the car is more responsive and direct. What I mean by direct is this. I had Falken Azenis a while back. And while driving forward, turn the steering wheel from side to side to test the roll of the car. With falkens there was very little to no roll. I say this may be due to the stiff sidewalls. (I had 14" rims and sidewalls on 14" rims are pretty tall) so that was surprising.
I then got Nitto 460 something, same 14". My car had roll with those wheels. and my new Kumho Ecstas are somewhere inbetween. But now I have 15" rims. I dont recall the sidewall thickness ratio. However while doing the side to side test, there was some squatting of the car and then it would turn.
So my point is with the frame lock it seemed to eliminate that slight roll. So my hypothesis of it being due to sidewall flex is probable wrong. But nontheless the frame locks helped.
Now the downside is that I seem to have a bit more understeer than before. In full throttle turns the car understeers when before it didnot. I need to test some more corners that Im more familiar with and play with my shock settings to get a better setup that I like.
So final word is. They work to a certain degree. It depends on your personal preference of handling, skill as a driver, and suspension setup. But I not sold on the price. I think it is jsut too much for such a little thing.
There were two other variables that went thru my mind when reading other people's reviews.
1. What kind of drivers were these people who praise the frame locks? What level of skill would their ability to drive their car be? (cause we all know that there are people who have cars that they can't drive, like ferrari owners who think 'Oh its a ferrari which means its a super car and can do anything'"
2. What kind of suspension were these people using prior? How well did their car handle previously?
Well I would consider my driving ability above par and my KYB AGX Skunk2 isnt too bad of a setup. It's no Apexi N1 or Tein coilovers. Or other better, more reputable suspension companies.
With those combinations, my driving ability and my suspension, my car handles pretty well and not just from my biased point of view.
So I got the Frame locks under a group buy, Still pricey at around 160 (still waiting for my refund though cause we pay full price and get a refund after)
Upon opening the package everything is encased in precut foam inserts. Which is nice but unnecessary. Extra initial cost of the product that jsut doesnt need to be spent. They provide the necessary drill bits which again is nice but not necessary. I have some of these bits and if needed I could go to Home Depot and buy them and return them when Im done.
So I installed them and drove my car. yes I cannot deny they didnt stiffen up the front end of my car. And the handling of the car is more responsive and direct. What I mean by direct is this. I had Falken Azenis a while back. And while driving forward, turn the steering wheel from side to side to test the roll of the car. With falkens there was very little to no roll. I say this may be due to the stiff sidewalls. (I had 14" rims and sidewalls on 14" rims are pretty tall) so that was surprising.
I then got Nitto 460 something, same 14". My car had roll with those wheels. and my new Kumho Ecstas are somewhere inbetween. But now I have 15" rims. I dont recall the sidewall thickness ratio. However while doing the side to side test, there was some squatting of the car and then it would turn.
So my point is with the frame lock it seemed to eliminate that slight roll. So my hypothesis of it being due to sidewall flex is probable wrong. But nontheless the frame locks helped.
Now the downside is that I seem to have a bit more understeer than before. In full throttle turns the car understeers when before it didnot. I need to test some more corners that Im more familiar with and play with my shock settings to get a better setup that I like.
So final word is. They work to a certain degree. It depends on your personal preference of handling, skill as a driver, and suspension setup. But I not sold on the price. I think it is jsut too much for such a little thing.
10-23-2004, 03:26 PM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (Solscud007)
Good review. It's nice to finally see such a thourogh review that is unbiased and gives details about factors others didn't consider to mention. Good job.
10-23-2004, 05:13 PM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (litterbox)
great review! i also heard of people welding their own, so you would think that Korbach would understand this and drop the price so people would say "i would rather just buy them they are cheap enough". but with a decent price tag on it i would rather just make my own, ya know?
you should try running stock steelies with pep boys tires and see the correction to eliminate the whole idea of a thicker sidewall too!
nice job man
you should try running stock steelies with pep boys tires and see the correction to eliminate the whole idea of a thicker sidewall too!
nice job man
10-25-2004, 08:47 PM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (Solscud007)
Originally Posted by Solscud007
Ok first of all like many people, and my friends, I was skeptical that such a little piece of metal would do anything. And would it be worth the high price.
There were two other variables that went thru my mind when reading other people's reviews.
1. What kind of drivers were these people who praise the frame locks? What level of skill would their ability to drive their car be? (cause we all know that there are people who have cars that they can't drive, like ferrari owners who think 'Oh its a ferrari which means its a super car and can do anything'"
2. What kind of suspension were these people using prior? How well did their car handle previously?
Well I would consider my driving ability above par and my KYB AGX Skunk2 isnt too bad of a setup. It's no Apexi N1 or Tein coilovers. Or other better, more reputable suspension companies.
With those combinations, my driving ability and my suspension, my car handles pretty well and not just from my biased point of view.
So I got the Frame locks under a group buy, Still pricey at around 160 (still waiting for my refund though cause we pay full price and get a refund after)
Upon opening the package everything is encased in precut foam inserts. Which is nice but unnecessary. Extra initial cost of the product that jsut doesnt need to be spent. They provide the necessary drill bits which again is nice but not necessary. I have some of these bits and if needed I could go to Home Depot and buy them and return them when Im done.
So I installed them and drove my car. yes I cannot deny they didnt stiffen up the front end of my car. And the handling of the car is more responsive and direct. What I mean by direct is this. I had Falken Azenis a while back. And while driving forward, turn the steering wheel from side to side to test the roll of the car. With falkens there was very little to no roll. I say this may be due to the stiff sidewalls. (I had 14" rims and sidewalls on 14" rims are pretty tall) so that was surprising.
I then got Nitto 460 something, same 14". My car had roll with those wheels. and my new Kumho Ecstas are somewhere inbetween. But now I have 15" rims. I dont recall the sidewall thickness ratio. However while doing the side to side test, there was some squatting of the car and then it would turn.
So my point is with the frame lock it seemed to eliminate that slight roll. So my hypothesis of it being due to sidewall flex is probable wrong. But nontheless the frame locks helped.
Now the downside is that I seem to have a bit more understeer than before. In full throttle turns the car understeers when before it didnot. I need to test some more corners that Im more familiar with and play with my shock settings to get a better setup that I like.
So final word is. They work to a certain degree. It depends on your personal preference of handling, skill as a driver, and suspension setup. But I not sold on the price. I think it is jsut too much for such a little thing.
There were two other variables that went thru my mind when reading other people's reviews.
1. What kind of drivers were these people who praise the frame locks? What level of skill would their ability to drive their car be? (cause we all know that there are people who have cars that they can't drive, like ferrari owners who think 'Oh its a ferrari which means its a super car and can do anything'"
2. What kind of suspension were these people using prior? How well did their car handle previously?
Well I would consider my driving ability above par and my KYB AGX Skunk2 isnt too bad of a setup. It's no Apexi N1 or Tein coilovers. Or other better, more reputable suspension companies.
With those combinations, my driving ability and my suspension, my car handles pretty well and not just from my biased point of view.
So I got the Frame locks under a group buy, Still pricey at around 160 (still waiting for my refund though cause we pay full price and get a refund after)
Upon opening the package everything is encased in precut foam inserts. Which is nice but unnecessary. Extra initial cost of the product that jsut doesnt need to be spent. They provide the necessary drill bits which again is nice but not necessary. I have some of these bits and if needed I could go to Home Depot and buy them and return them when Im done.
So I installed them and drove my car. yes I cannot deny they didnt stiffen up the front end of my car. And the handling of the car is more responsive and direct. What I mean by direct is this. I had Falken Azenis a while back. And while driving forward, turn the steering wheel from side to side to test the roll of the car. With falkens there was very little to no roll. I say this may be due to the stiff sidewalls. (I had 14" rims and sidewalls on 14" rims are pretty tall) so that was surprising.
I then got Nitto 460 something, same 14". My car had roll with those wheels. and my new Kumho Ecstas are somewhere inbetween. But now I have 15" rims. I dont recall the sidewall thickness ratio. However while doing the side to side test, there was some squatting of the car and then it would turn.
So my point is with the frame lock it seemed to eliminate that slight roll. So my hypothesis of it being due to sidewall flex is probable wrong. But nontheless the frame locks helped.
Now the downside is that I seem to have a bit more understeer than before. In full throttle turns the car understeers when before it didnot. I need to test some more corners that Im more familiar with and play with my shock settings to get a better setup that I like.
So final word is. They work to a certain degree. It depends on your personal preference of handling, skill as a driver, and suspension setup. But I not sold on the price. I think it is jsut too much for such a little thing.
Thanks for the honest review! I do appreciate it. There is no question that your review is the least positive of all the reviews we received. However, hands down, everyone else really likes them and have not complained about the price. But with the volume that we've been selling, I guess it is possible. It really becomes an affordability vs performance gain issue and the appreciation of that gain. We think as well as others that the performance gain is on par with other competitive products. Since you are unhappy with the gain for the dollar, please return them for a full refund. We'll give you an immediate credit. Send me an email at manager@korbachperformance.com about the return and mail them back to 969 G Edgewater Boulevard # 248, Foster City CA 94404.
I hope that seems fair? Whether you return them or not, please let people know on this forum which way you go. I want this to be an open dialogue. We have nothing to hide.
In regards to the packaging. Yes, it was unneccesary, but we did that at our expense. Since we are a new company, we wanted to put our best foot forward and it really does not cost nearly as much as people think. When you think about it, it is not that much different than wearing a nice suit to a job interview or waxing up your car for a hot date. It shows respect to others. Of course with a date it could be enough to tip the scales.
We supplied the drill bits also at our expense. We buy in bulk and can get the drill bits at a much lower cost than buying at a Home Depot unless of course you return them after you used them as you stated. Then I guess they would be free minus the time taken to drive there twice and waiting in line twice. Some people don't mind waiting in lines. I really dislike standing in line.
The vast majority of people do not have a 5/8" drill bit. Drill bit packs stop right at 1/2". We checked. In addition standard 5/8" drill bits for the most part come in a 1/2" shank which will not fit an ordinary household power drill with a 3/8" chuck. So we buy special drill bits that have a 3/8" shank that will fit any drill. So that means that 95% of the customers would have to make an extra trip to the hard ware store. That may not be a big deal to you. But I've bought products where the manufacturer skimped on something I needed and then I had to drive to the hardware store and wait in line. That always ticked me off and I promised that our company would not be like that. Maybe we were wrong in that approach. But that was my gut reaction and my partners totally agreed. We figured that we saved them that trip which is especially important if there fascia was already removed. So we saw that as a big positive. The other small bits only cost us a few bucks, so we threw that in as well to make it a complete set. But the big reason why we supplied fresh drill bits were to insure an easy install. When we were beta testing, we had some worn out drills and we tried to sharpen them with a file so we didn't have to drive out to the hardware store and keep our Korbach Tester waiting. BIG mistake. We actually ended up dulling the point and it took forever to drill a hole. We were actually sore the next day. Because of that experience, we wanted to make sure customers had sharp bits so they did not post how hard it would be to install them. That would be bad for business starting to build a reputation.
On the understeer... honestly, we saw the complete opposite. My partners and I have been in about 15 cars with Frame Locks and actually saw understeer diminish quite a bit.
Side bar. Out marketing VP Josh has arranged to have some Honda Challenge racers try them out right after Thanksgiving. One of them is a member at Clubsi. We will specifically ask them to assess understeer issues.
Last comment. Our parts are small, but that does not equate to low cost to manufacture at all. Decent designed strut bars can cost $ 150 an up and actually are not complicated to make after the tooling is paid for. Our Frame Locks are actually cut with a laser in part due to low volume but also to cut small slits to allow the break away pieces. The kit includes 6 custom cut, stamped braces, 4 stick nuts, a detail installation manual and the drill bits of course. The price should be judged based on performance. If one does not like them, we are happy to refund them no question asked.
Thanks for giving them a try though! If you return them, you will have the honary distinction of being the very first person to do just that. But we don't mind. we're happy to send you your money back to keep everyone happy and to demonstrate to others we stand behind our product.
Thanks again.
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
10-25-2004, 09:11 PM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (Black_SiR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black_SiR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Finally a good honest review on these frame locks. Everyone elses reviews don't have a single negative thing about them. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Interesting. I've seen this product bashed more than any other product on HT, except maybe the AEBS manifold. At the same time, the people praising it, are stating that it's a night and day improvement.
What I'm seeing now seems to be, that in order for a product to recieve a so called "honest review," it must be negative to be accepted as truth. Interesting.
Interesting. I've seen this product bashed more than any other product on HT, except maybe the AEBS manifold. At the same time, the people praising it, are stating that it's a night and day improvement.
What I'm seeing now seems to be, that in order for a product to recieve a so called "honest review," it must be negative to be accepted as truth. Interesting.
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10-26-2004, 09:49 AM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (rodrez.)
Originally Posted by rodrez.
Interesting. I've seen this product bashed more than any other product on HT, except maybe the AEBS manifold. At the same time, the people praising it, are stating that it's a night and day improvement.
What I'm seeing now seems to be, that in order for a product to recieve a so called "honest review," it must be negative to be accepted as truth. Interesting.
We've sold enough of these that it is probably inevitable that someone wouldn't think it's worth the money. Frankly, we are suprised but we are happy to make our very first refund and are awaiting the parts. Value is in the eye of the beholder. It really depends how much one appreciates the gain and how that stacks up against similar products. We think ours certainly stacks up high, but of course we are selling a product. Value is subjective and depends in part to the individual consumer and their individual appreciation of their passion. For example, there are those that have no qualms about spending $ 100 for a great bottle of wine or $ 30,000 for a custom Harley or $ 90,000 for a BMW M5. Is it worth it? It depends on you wallet and whether you appreciate it. Out Tuner customers (except the one above) think they are worth it. Our Frame Locks are now priced at $ 225 and they do make a significant difference. Not happy with them, return them for a full refund. I really think that is a very fair arrangement.
We've been very very open about our product and have gone beyond publishing testimonials that are hard to verify. Instead we took this to the next level and asked members of various clubs to post their reviews. That way, the testimonials can be verified. All of the reivews with the exception of this one has been great. Do a Google search under Korbach Performance and you will see for yourself.
I think that we have done everything possible to keep this an open forum which is more than any other after market company has ever done. It exposes us to critism, but we are willing to take our lumps in exchange for a direct connection to enthusiasts.
I've learned that no matter what, there will always forever remain skeptics despite the front cover of Honda Tuning, reviews from web masters, moderators and racers. I will try to continue posting here as much as I can, but have come to the conclusion that I must focus gaining credibility through the enthusiast magazines. So that will be done. The timing of the reveiws will be around spring/summer time since it takes 3 months for the mags to publish and we intentionally want to not have a press release when the roads are still icey back east.
Incidentally, there is a 3 day Honda Challenge activity right after Thanksgiving in Phoenix. We have made arrangements to be part of that event and allow several well known Honda Challenge racers to test drive our product. This is what we've been waiting for. We will ask them to generate skid pad results. We will specifically ask them if they think it is worth the price. Some how, we will ask them to post some kind of a review in their web site so that people can verify the authenticity of our claims.
One more thing and this is a liability issue. If people decide to fabricate their own Frame Locks, please copy our design verbatim. Especially the 3 triangular holes on the upper and lower face of the front bracket. We designed and tested our Frame Locks on the bumpy roads of Santa Cruz to insure that the air bag will not go off when driven over a pot hole. Our Frame Locks are designed to improve the front lateral stiffness, but to be weaker in the front axial direction. We can not take any responsibility for a copied design that results in a false air bag deployment.
Thank you Honda-Tech for allowing our company to have a direct link to some real car enthusiasts. This has been very enlightening for us.
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
http://www.korbachperformance.com
Modified by Solid_Ride at 12:42 PM 4/3/2005
10-26-2004, 10:13 AM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (Solid_Ride)
This has got to be one of the most helpful, informative, and professional vendors I have ever seen on honda-tech. He even gave instructions and warned of possible flaws for someone who is trying to copy their product.
for you Solid_Ride. and for Korbach. Can't wait to get my framelocks.
for you Solid_Ride. and for Korbach. Can't wait to get my framelocks.
10-26-2004, 10:15 AM
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Re: (jeffbatt)
I don't understand how these products wouldn't create understeer simply because of the physics involved. If you stiffen and reinforce the front of the car, it moves the strain of lateral acceleration to the next weakest link, i.e. the coil springs and tires. This is the same principle behind swaybars that lever your suspension to the ground: it moves the responsibility of keeping you from pitching off track to the tires (mostly).
Maybe the children who installed the other frame locks were enamored with the "enhanced steering response" and "improvement of lane changes" and all that other stuff, but from a mechanical standpoint, there is no reason I can come up with why this product would do anything other than tighten up the front of the car and promote more of the shitty understeer that plagues most front-drive cars.
Maybe the children who installed the other frame locks were enamored with the "enhanced steering response" and "improvement of lane changes" and all that other stuff, but from a mechanical standpoint, there is no reason I can come up with why this product would do anything other than tighten up the front of the car and promote more of the shitty understeer that plagues most front-drive cars.
10-26-2004, 10:18 AM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (rodrez.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rodrez. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Interesting. I've seen this product bashed more than any other product on HT, except maybe the AEBS manifold. At the same time, the people praising it, are stating that it's a night and day improvement.
What I'm seeing now seems to be, that in order for a product to recieve a so called "honest review," it must be negative to be accepted as truth. Interesting.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly...people are always willing to believe negative information before they believe positive and that applies to everything in this world...not just car parts. For some reason people equate negative information with the "real truth".
Interesting. I've seen this product bashed more than any other product on HT, except maybe the AEBS manifold. At the same time, the people praising it, are stating that it's a night and day improvement.
What I'm seeing now seems to be, that in order for a product to recieve a so called "honest review," it must be negative to be accepted as truth. Interesting.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly...people are always willing to believe negative information before they believe positive and that applies to everything in this world...not just car parts. For some reason people equate negative information with the "real truth".
10-26-2004, 05:06 PM
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Re: (jeffbatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jeffbatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When are these things going to start becoming available for other cars?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks. We get this question a lot. We are working hard towards that and think by spring summer time we will have Frame Locks for a few more cars. If we can hire the right people, we may be able to do better than that. We also have another great chassis product in the works too. We appreciate your patience. Please keep in mind our start up company was launched only 2 1/2 months ago! Right now, we're just trying to keep up with demand, streamlining our operations, hiring the right people, revising our patent and keeping in close communications with our customer base through car enthusiast web sites such as Honda-Tech. So, we've been working pretty hard. We want to move faster, but then again we look back and are actually very grateful with the progress we've made in just a short amount of time.
So stay tuned and brace yourselves for more Frame Locks coming. We are looking for Korbach Testers to evaluate 5th gen Civic Frame Locks. So if anyone is interested, email info@korbachperformance.com and we will send you an application. By partipating, you will get Beta level Frame Locks (99% like final production) at a substantially reduced price in exchange for answering a few questions.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
Thanks. We get this question a lot. We are working hard towards that and think by spring summer time we will have Frame Locks for a few more cars. If we can hire the right people, we may be able to do better than that. We also have another great chassis product in the works too. We appreciate your patience. Please keep in mind our start up company was launched only 2 1/2 months ago! Right now, we're just trying to keep up with demand, streamlining our operations, hiring the right people, revising our patent and keeping in close communications with our customer base through car enthusiast web sites such as Honda-Tech. So, we've been working pretty hard. We want to move faster, but then again we look back and are actually very grateful with the progress we've made in just a short amount of time.
So stay tuned and brace yourselves for more Frame Locks coming. We are looking for Korbach Testers to evaluate 5th gen Civic Frame Locks. So if anyone is interested, email info@korbachperformance.com and we will send you an application. By partipating, you will get Beta level Frame Locks (99% like final production) at a substantially reduced price in exchange for answering a few questions.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
10-26-2004, 05:13 PM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (Wilky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wilky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This has got to be one of the most helpful, informative, and professional vendors I have ever seen on honda-tech. He even gave instructions and warned of possible flaws for someone who is trying to copy their product.
for you Solid_Ride. and for Korbach. Can't wait to get my framelocks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks. With all the bashing we get, a compliment like that keeps us going.
We really are striving to be the best after market company out there. As consumers ourselves, we always appreciated the companies that not only know what they are doing but are honest and forthright and not afraid to talk openly and publicly with the customers. That has been one of our guiding lights. We hope as we grow, that we can hold true to those principles. For now, that is what we want to do. We are very glad that you recognize our efforts!
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
for you Solid_Ride. and for Korbach. Can't wait to get my framelocks.</TD></TR></TABLE>Thanks. With all the bashing we get, a compliment like that keeps us going.
We really are striving to be the best after market company out there. As consumers ourselves, we always appreciated the companies that not only know what they are doing but are honest and forthright and not afraid to talk openly and publicly with the customers. That has been one of our guiding lights. We hope as we grow, that we can hold true to those principles. For now, that is what we want to do. We are very glad that you recognize our efforts!
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
10-26-2004, 05:25 PM
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Re: (Archidictus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I don't understand how these products wouldn't create understeer simply because of the physics involved. If you stiffen and reinforce the front of the car, it moves the strain of lateral acceleration to the next weakest link, i.e. the coil springs and tires. This is the same principle behind swaybars that lever your suspension to the ground: it moves the responsibility of keeping you from pitching off track to the tires (mostly).
Maybe the children who installed the other frame locks were enamored with the "enhanced steering response" and "improvement of lane changes" and all that other stuff, but from a mechanical standpoint, there is no reason I can come up with why this product would do anything other than tighten up the front of the car and promote more of the shitty understeer that plagues most front-drive cars.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand your theory and I can't argue with that. But with the exception of this one driver, everyone has reported that understeer is much better including the managing editor of Honda Tuning magazine and his production coordinator. There may be something unique in the set up of this person's car that is different from other people's set up. Honestly, I don't know if we will be able to figure that one out. You'd have to get into a car with the Frame Locks to be a believer. Don't like it, return it in any condition for a full and immediate refund.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
Maybe the children who installed the other frame locks were enamored with the "enhanced steering response" and "improvement of lane changes" and all that other stuff, but from a mechanical standpoint, there is no reason I can come up with why this product would do anything other than tighten up the front of the car and promote more of the shitty understeer that plagues most front-drive cars.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I understand your theory and I can't argue with that. But with the exception of this one driver, everyone has reported that understeer is much better including the managing editor of Honda Tuning magazine and his production coordinator. There may be something unique in the set up of this person's car that is different from other people's set up. Honestly, I don't know if we will be able to figure that one out. You'd have to get into a car with the Frame Locks to be a believer. Don't like it, return it in any condition for a full and immediate refund.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
10-26-2004, 05:27 PM
#16
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Re: Another Korbach review. (Solid_Ride)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solid_Ride »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
We designed and tested our Frame Locks on the bumpy roads of Santa Cruz to insure that the air bag will not go off when driven over a pot hole.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL Santa Cruz, around the boardwalk, has some harsh, harsh roads.
I think it says a lot that the vendor is contributing to the forum and giving personal replys and overall just paying attention to what customers have to say.
I guess this review works for people who consider themselves hot-**** drivers who already have tite setups. The others like me who are average drivers with ground-control setups will probably benefit more from the locks.
Any other Hondas that might benefit from a product like this?
We designed and tested our Frame Locks on the bumpy roads of Santa Cruz to insure that the air bag will not go off when driven over a pot hole.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL Santa Cruz, around the boardwalk, has some harsh, harsh roads.
I think it says a lot that the vendor is contributing to the forum and giving personal replys and overall just paying attention to what customers have to say.
I guess this review works for people who consider themselves hot-**** drivers who already have tite setups. The others like me who are average drivers with ground-control setups will probably benefit more from the locks.
Any other Hondas that might benefit from a product like this?
10-27-2004, 11:01 AM
#17
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Re: Another Korbach review. (Solscud007)
I have only one question:
Since you seem less than satisfied with Korbach's product, have you returned them for a refund?
This is not meant to flame you or dismiss your opinion of Korbach. Just wondering if your biggest complaint is the price.
This is the ONLY product on the market that offers a guarantee of any sort. I wish i was able to return some of the stuff that was supposed to work and didn't.
If your only complaint is the price, well I can't help you there. You might as well start a new thread and **** and moan about the money Mugen/Kingmotorsports, Volk, Tein, Comptech, etc. charge for their products. By the way, I bought the Frame-locks at their intro price of $195. If I had missed the offer, now knowing what a difference they make, I would have no complaints about paying full retail.
After all, if you want the best, you have to pay.
I installed the Frame locks on my 2000 Si and am extremely happy with the results. I now have a solid foundation on which I can build. Everything I can say has been said by a lot of other Honda-tech members; so I won't bore you with it.
Would I recommend them, YES! For anyone on this board who is truly interested in building a great handling car, buy them. These are just ONE component needed to make your car handle, add a good set of coil-overs, sway-bars, brakes and tires and you should be tearing up the roads. However your bank account will take a hit.
Such is life, if you want to go fast, you got to spend the money.
Like everything, some people will love a product and some won't. If you're not satisfied, return the locks. There's no shame in having your opinion and no one should flame you for it either.
Since you seem less than satisfied with Korbach's product, have you returned them for a refund?
This is not meant to flame you or dismiss your opinion of Korbach. Just wondering if your biggest complaint is the price.
This is the ONLY product on the market that offers a guarantee of any sort. I wish i was able to return some of the stuff that was supposed to work and didn't.
If your only complaint is the price, well I can't help you there. You might as well start a new thread and **** and moan about the money Mugen/Kingmotorsports, Volk, Tein, Comptech, etc. charge for their products. By the way, I bought the Frame-locks at their intro price of $195. If I had missed the offer, now knowing what a difference they make, I would have no complaints about paying full retail.
After all, if you want the best, you have to pay.
I installed the Frame locks on my 2000 Si and am extremely happy with the results. I now have a solid foundation on which I can build. Everything I can say has been said by a lot of other Honda-tech members; so I won't bore you with it.
Would I recommend them, YES! For anyone on this board who is truly interested in building a great handling car, buy them. These are just ONE component needed to make your car handle, add a good set of coil-overs, sway-bars, brakes and tires and you should be tearing up the roads. However your bank account will take a hit.
Such is life, if you want to go fast, you got to spend the money.
Like everything, some people will love a product and some won't. If you're not satisfied, return the locks. There's no shame in having your opinion and no one should flame you for it either.
10-27-2004, 11:40 AM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (oh_crx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by oh_crx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
LOL Santa Cruz, around the boardwalk, has some harsh, harsh roads.
I think it says a lot that the vendor is contributing to the forum and giving personal replys and overall just paying attention to what customers have to say.
I guess this review works for people who consider themselves hot-**** drivers who already have tite setups. The others like me who are average drivers with ground-control setups will probably benefit more from the locks.
Any other Hondas that might benefit from a product like this? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I love going to Santa Cruz, but the roads in the mountains are God awful. Very bumpy, but they have been very good for our testing.
Actually our Frame Locks work well with all cars with any set ups. It shows great on cars that are stock and cars set up for racing.
Yes. We think that many cars can benefit from the Frame Locks. We are agressively pursuing other models. We think in time we will be able to have offerings for 10+ cars. The ones for the 96-00 Civic is our test product. Now that it passed the test and has been very well received, we will invest more time and money for other cars.
Thanks for being objective about this!
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
LOL Santa Cruz, around the boardwalk, has some harsh, harsh roads.
I think it says a lot that the vendor is contributing to the forum and giving personal replys and overall just paying attention to what customers have to say.
I guess this review works for people who consider themselves hot-**** drivers who already have tite setups. The others like me who are average drivers with ground-control setups will probably benefit more from the locks.
Any other Hondas that might benefit from a product like this? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I love going to Santa Cruz, but the roads in the mountains are God awful. Very bumpy, but they have been very good for our testing.
Actually our Frame Locks work well with all cars with any set ups. It shows great on cars that are stock and cars set up for racing.
Yes. We think that many cars can benefit from the Frame Locks. We are agressively pursuing other models. We think in time we will be able to have offerings for 10+ cars. The ones for the 96-00 Civic is our test product. Now that it passed the test and has been very well received, we will invest more time and money for other cars.
Thanks for being objective about this!
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
10-27-2004, 11:43 AM
#19
Unceasing Measure
Re: (Solid_Ride)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Solid_Ride »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I understand your theory and I can't argue with that. But with the exception of this one driver, everyone has reported that understeer is much better including the managing editor of Honda Tuning magazine and his production coordinator. There may be something unique in the set up of this person's car that is different from other people's set up. Honestly, I don't know if we will be able to figure that one out. You'd have to get into a car with the Frame Locks to be a believer. Don't like it, return it in any condition for a full and immediate refund.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't get me wrong: I'm not hating on your product in any way. I find it incredibly admirable the way you continually monitor and respond to customer feedback online and through your customer service. Seriously, over time, business practices like that are what bring customers back for bigger and bigger purchases. In that respect, my hat is off to you and your company.
I'm just curious as to the knowledge and experience of the "testers" thus far. I can't argue with results from people I don't know, nor will I try to, but I do have a firm grasp on physics - especially automotive physics - and am always willing to start a discussion if someone can tell me how these frame locks are eliciting the responses people seem to be having.
Good luck with your sales.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance</TD></TR></TABLE>
Don't get me wrong: I'm not hating on your product in any way. I find it incredibly admirable the way you continually monitor and respond to customer feedback online and through your customer service. Seriously, over time, business practices like that are what bring customers back for bigger and bigger purchases. In that respect, my hat is off to you and your company.
I'm just curious as to the knowledge and experience of the "testers" thus far. I can't argue with results from people I don't know, nor will I try to, but I do have a firm grasp on physics - especially automotive physics - and am always willing to start a discussion if someone can tell me how these frame locks are eliciting the responses people seem to be having.
Good luck with your sales
.
10-27-2004, 11:54 AM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (madm@nkey)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by madm@nkey »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have only one question:
Since you seem less than satisfied with Korbach's product, have you returned them for a refund?
This is not meant to flame you or dismiss your opinion of Korbach. Just wondering if your biggest complaint is the price.
This is the ONLY product on the market that offers a guarantee of any sort. I wish i was able to return some of the stuff that was supposed to work and didn't.
If your only complaint is the price, well I can't help you there. You might as well start a new thread and **** and moan about the money Mugen/Kingmotorsports, Volk, Tein, Comptech, etc. charge for their products. By the way, I bought the Frame-locks at their intro price of $195. If I had missed the offer, now knowing what a difference they make, I would have no complaints about paying full retail.
After all, if you want the best, you have to pay.
I installed the Frame locks on my 2000 Si and am extremely happy with the results. I now have a solid foundation on which I can build. Everything I can say has been said by a lot of other Honda-tech members; so I won't bore you with it.
Would I recommend them, YES! For anyone on this board who is truly interested in building a great handling car, buy them. These are just ONE component needed to make your car handle, add a good set of coil-overs, sway-bars, brakes and tires and you should be tearing up the roads. However your bank account will take a hit.
Such is life, if you want to go fast, you got to spend the money.
Like everything, some people will love a product and some won't. If you're not satisfied, return the locks. There's no shame in having your opinion and no one should flame you for it either. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks. We are really glad that you like them.
We did screw up with Solscud's group buy discount. He got a great deal at the promo price of $ 195 (price is now $ 225). Then he jumped on a group buy and got another $ 39 off. We were supposed to give him a $ 39 credit right away, but we got back ordered and his purchase was made from a credit card of a different name and it honestly got lost in the shuffle. We've been swamped. So we botched it up. I totally admit it. We did send him our sincere apologies and personally take the blame for our office staff's mess ups. We are still streamlining our office processes and this one will be corrected. We just launched 2 1/2 months ago and we hired some more people and are going through some growing pains. But I don't mind that kind of pain at all. It's better than down sizing and cutting back!
In regards to him returning it. I wanted to so badly refund his money right away to demonstrate our commitment to our risk free offer. I wanted to turn it form a negative to a positive. He declined to return them. Since I wanted to be good on my offer, I actually offerred him a full refund plus $ 30 (note: I will not offer this to anyone else) just to be able to say we had one return and we refunded it quickly. But he declined and said he was going to keep them.
So we are glad with that scenario because we can still claim not one return.
Solscud - thanks for the purchase! We do appreciate it! Sorry for our mistake!
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
Since you seem less than satisfied with Korbach's product, have you returned them for a refund?
This is not meant to flame you or dismiss your opinion of Korbach. Just wondering if your biggest complaint is the price.
This is the ONLY product on the market that offers a guarantee of any sort. I wish i was able to return some of the stuff that was supposed to work and didn't.
If your only complaint is the price, well I can't help you there. You might as well start a new thread and **** and moan about the money Mugen/Kingmotorsports, Volk, Tein, Comptech, etc. charge for their products. By the way, I bought the Frame-locks at their intro price of $195. If I had missed the offer, now knowing what a difference they make, I would have no complaints about paying full retail.
After all, if you want the best, you have to pay.
I installed the Frame locks on my 2000 Si and am extremely happy with the results. I now have a solid foundation on which I can build. Everything I can say has been said by a lot of other Honda-tech members; so I won't bore you with it.
Would I recommend them, YES! For anyone on this board who is truly interested in building a great handling car, buy them. These are just ONE component needed to make your car handle, add a good set of coil-overs, sway-bars, brakes and tires and you should be tearing up the roads. However your bank account will take a hit.
Such is life, if you want to go fast, you got to spend the money.
Like everything, some people will love a product and some won't. If you're not satisfied, return the locks. There's no shame in having your opinion and no one should flame you for it either.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Thanks. We are really glad that you like them.
We did screw up with Solscud's group buy discount. He got a great deal at the promo price of $ 195 (price is now $ 225). Then he jumped on a group buy and got another $ 39 off. We were supposed to give him a $ 39 credit right away, but we got back ordered and his purchase was made from a credit card of a different name and it honestly got lost in the shuffle. We've been swamped. So we botched it up. I totally admit it. We did send him our sincere apologies and personally take the blame for our office staff's mess ups. We are still streamlining our office processes and this one will be corrected. We just launched 2 1/2 months ago and we hired some more people and are going through some growing pains. But I don't mind that kind of pain at all. It's better than down sizing and cutting back!
In regards to him returning it. I wanted to so badly refund his money right away to demonstrate our commitment to our risk free offer. I wanted to turn it form a negative to a positive. He declined to return them. Since I wanted to be good on my offer, I actually offerred him a full refund plus $ 30 (note: I will not offer this to anyone else) just to be able to say we had one return and we refunded it quickly. But he declined and said he was going to keep them.
So we are glad with that scenario because we can still claim not one return.
Solscud - thanks for the purchase! We do appreciate it! Sorry for our mistake!
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
10-27-2004, 11:01 PM
#22
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Re: (T25So)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by T25So »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Solid or anyone else who might know:
Will the 92-95 eg frame locks (when released) fit del sols also?</TD></TR></TABLE>
My partners and I just had a big meeting to layout the detail schedule for the development cycle of car #2 the 5th gen Civic, which should be ready in Feburary we hope.
If you want to participate as a Korbach Tester, please email Josh at info@korbachperformance.com. Ask for an application. If you are accepted, you will get a Beta version (95-100% close to final production) for a significantly reduced cost. All you need to do is give us feed back on the installation manual and post an honest review.
After that comes car # 3 & # 4 which may be out in April we hope. By then we would have stream lined our development process enough that we can hire more help to assist in the design and development. Then other cars will start coming out very quickly I predict. Then after that, we have some other new products to try out as well.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
Will the 92-95 eg frame locks (when released) fit del sols also?</TD></TR></TABLE>
My partners and I just had a big meeting to layout the detail schedule for the development cycle of car #2 the 5th gen Civic, which should be ready in Feburary we hope.
If you want to participate as a Korbach Tester, please email Josh at info@korbachperformance.com. Ask for an application. If you are accepted, you will get a Beta version (95-100% close to final production) for a significantly reduced cost. All you need to do is give us feed back on the installation manual and post an honest review.
After that comes car # 3 & # 4 which may be out in April we hope. By then we would have stream lined our development process enough that we can hire more help to assist in the design and development. Then other cars will start coming out very quickly I predict. Then after that, we have some other new products to try out as well.
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
04-02-2005, 05:37 PM
#23
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Re: Another Korbach review. (Wilky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Wilky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This has got to be one of the most helpful, informative, and professional vendors I have ever seen on honda-tech. He even gave instructions and warned of possible flaws for someone who is trying to copy their product.
for you Solid_Ride. and for Korbach. Can't wait to get my framelocks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
for you Solid_Ride. and for Korbach. Can't wait to get my framelocks.</TD></TR></TABLE>
04-03-2005, 11:36 AM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (copperfox)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by copperfox »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks for the bump.
We will have Beta Frame Locks for the 92-95 Civic this weekend for sure. These Beta's are made from production tooling (laser cut, formed and powder coated). It should be 98-100% near final release. So this weekend, we will do an install for the installation manual. Then we will be ready to send a few Beta's out to some of the applicants. Shortly after that, we should be able to sell them to the open market.
We tested prototypes for the DC2, RSX and WRX and it works great. Should be able to have these ready by spring/summer time. Other cars coming, but can not divulge it.
Here's a very positive posting from our Beta tester # 1 for the RSX. Check it out.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/show...66234
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
</TD></TR></TABLE>Thanks for the bump.
We will have Beta Frame Locks for the 92-95 Civic this weekend for sure. These Beta's are made from production tooling (laser cut, formed and powder coated). It should be 98-100% near final release. So this weekend, we will do an install for the installation manual. Then we will be ready to send a few Beta's out to some of the applicants. Shortly after that, we should be able to sell them to the open market.
We tested prototypes for the DC2, RSX and WRX and it works great. Should be able to have these ready by spring/summer time. Other cars coming, but can not divulge it.
Here's a very positive posting from our Beta tester # 1 for the RSX. Check it out.
http://forums.clubrsx.com/show...66234
Thanks
David Lawson
Korbach Performance
04-06-2005, 01:04 PM
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Re: Another Korbach review. (Solscud007)
Solscud007,
Did you bolt up the Korbachs with the car on jackstands? If so, the chassis is loaded up differently than if you bolted it on with the tires on the ground. This may have changed the alignment in such a manner that you now have more understeer.
Also, if you're truly concerned about handling, the side effect of increased understeer can be tuned out by increasing the rear swaybar rates (if you have adjustables), or by increasing front/rear (negative) camber bias. This way you get the benefits of the Korbachs without the increased understeer.
Cheers.
Did you bolt up the Korbachs with the car on jackstands? If so, the chassis is loaded up differently than if you bolted it on with the tires on the ground. This may have changed the alignment in such a manner that you now have more understeer.
Also, if you're truly concerned about handling, the side effect of increased understeer can be tuned out by increasing the rear swaybar rates (if you have adjustables), or by increasing front/rear (negative) camber bias. This way you get the benefits of the Korbachs without the increased understeer.
Cheers.
