KrazyDawg

I have a 1995 Civic EX that was purchased in Dec 2007 at 116K miles. It's considered salvage since the cost to repair it was more than the value of the car. The rear quarter panel was replaced according to the body shop owner I purchased it from. It was damaged while parked.

Since it was used, I decided to have the timing belt and waterpump replaced. I chose an independent shop that only works on Japanese vehicles and uses OEM parts. As a bonus, they also give me 10% discounts and provide loaner cars. On my first visit in 1/08 the following was found:

1. Car has been in major accident with left rear damage. Left rear trailing arm dented and put hole in frame. Has frame damage.

2. B-pipe bent. Recommend replace.

3. Note: Entire A/C system aftermarket.

4. Oil pan gasket leaking. Recommend replace.

5. Front crank seal leaking bad. Needs now.

6. Timing belt tensioner making noise. Recommend now.

7. Valve cover gasket rubber stiff. Needs now.

8. Has prior front end damage also. Light does not line up.

9. Left front door drops when opened due to prior body damage.

10. Both front upper ball joint boots, both front lower ball joint boots and both outer tie rod end boots severely cracked and dryrotted. Recommend replace before splitting open and ruining components.

I had them do options 5-7 and ignored the b-pipe, oil pan gasket, and suspension items. I received a second and third opinion from Firestone and my friend that works as a mechanic. Firestone advised that something else could give the illusion that the oil was leaking and they couldn't find anything upon inspection. The shop my friend works at told me the b-pipe bent and suspension was just cosmetics. I also know that my friend doesn’t keep his car in the best condition as far as routine maintenance goes. He only fixes something when it breaks since they spend a lot of time working on other people’s cars and don’t have time of their own.

Comment: The independent shop forgot to do a brake fluid flush and I also forgot to check my invoice for it, so maybe they're not as thorough as I thought. My brakes were acting funny (would go down all the way to the floor) since I had the car before the brake fluid flush was done and worked fine since the flush.

I didn't come back to that independent shop until 10/08 to get the spark plug wires, distributor cap, and a valve adjustment done. It was cheaper than Firestone where I normally get my oil changes and I wanted to use OEM parts. When I brought it in, they told me I was due for my 135k service and also oil was leaking from the oil pan gasket and/or drain plug. They didn’t know the condition of the plugs or threads and thought they might be stripped since I don’t have my oil changes done by them. I told them I would bring it back for the 135k inspection, so it wasn’t checked on the spot.

During the inspection, they found the drain plug washer was crushed, and re-used too many times. It didn’t torque right so they replaced it. I didn’t need to have the oil pan gasket replaced. However, the following was discovered on the 135k check:

1. Radiator leaking at lower seam. Upper seam has rust buildup. Recommend replace radiator with thermostat and auxiliary fan switch.

2. Right outer tie rod end boot torn. No grease in joint.

3. Lower radiator hose leaking at thermostat housing. Recommend replace with new clamps.

4. Powersteering fluid black and nasty. Should be flushed ASAP.

5. Both front strut has some wetness starting around collar.

6. Bolt missing from left rear e-brake cable.

7. Left rear e-brake cable routed wrong and rubbing into cable shroud.

8. Both rear brake lines missing retaining clips.

9. Left rear toe set point is maxed out. Recommend alignment.

They showed me the leak at the radiator and the incorrect routing of the e-brake. I had the rear trailing arm replaced by the body shop owner before I purchased the car. I found it interesting that they didn’t mention anything about the bent b-pipe or the ball joint boot but they only noticed the right tie rod end boot instead of both as it was previously found 10 months ago.

I had a 400 mi road trip scheduled so I had them replace the radiator items, rerouted ebrake cable, and perform the power steering flush. The right outer tie rod wasn’t done.

I came back in Dec 08 to have an oil change done and my rear brakes inspected since it was making noise. The following was found:

1. Rear brakes good. 4.5mm and cylinders good.

2. Recommend clean and adjust rear brakes, dirty.

3. Front brakes 4mm pads plus hardware dry, rotors glazed.

4. Left front bellow boot torn on rack, recommend replace.

I had them replace the right outer tie rod end boot since they said it would wear out the tires. It was during the replacement they discovered the bellow boot needed to be replaced. Also, an alignment needed to be done after these changes which they take to another shop. On a prior alignment with Firestone it was still off but after replacing the parts it was able to be aligned within tolerance.

Recently I went back for an oil change. The following was noted:

1. Pan gasket leaking excessive. Recommend replace.

2. Both front upper, both front lower, and both outer tie rod end boots cracked and dryrotted, all need replaced ASAP (right outer tie rod end boot under warranty)

3. Both outer C.V. boots cracked and dryrotted, recommend replace ASAP.

Items 2 and 3 weren’t noted in the 135k inspection but item 2 was discovered over a year ago. The owner told me it’s normal for a old like mine to have those parts wear out. The car is now over 145k miles. Over 29k miles was put on it since the ball joints and outer tie rod end boots “needed” to be replaced. They expanded their business into American cars now instead of just working on Japanese cars. They’re also focused on preventive maintenance. I did notice everytime they told me they “pressurized” tires they didn’t really check them. I maintain my psi at 44 which is the max sidewell instead of the 32 listed in the manual for increased MPG. I’m thinking of taking my car back to Firestone for a second opinion.

The car was purchased for $3200 and looking over past receipts for things like battery replacement, windshield replacement, headlights, and other parts, I’ve spent $3300 in 14 months. The next set of repairs would cost me about $800.

Maintenance/repair to date: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...YSNqyDUg&gid=2

White Fox

dude i'll be comletely honest with you, i didn't read nearly all of that, but from what i hear it sounds like a pretty beat car that was poorly maintained, alot of that **** was wrong with my 2nd civic, sounds to me like they are making up a ton of **** to charge you out the *** for, cause you said they changed all those boots and greased them up and now they are severely dry rotted again?? that doesn't make any sense, it would have taken another like 50K to dry rot that stuff out, and the pan gasket leaking excessive again, i dont like all the things they supposedly fixed that are all of a sudden horribly wrong again after like 20K miles. your not driving a domestic, your driving a stock civic.

thats why i NEVERRRRRRRR let a shop do anything for me, i always do my own stuff, shops will "FIND" so much **** to change that isn't necessarily bad... did you see bright green liquid here and there and smell a sweet smell (antifreeze) from the radiator hoses, radiator itself?? did you see it dripping water from the radiator? if the cooling system had all those things wrong with it then you would have had to put water in it all the time to keep it from overheating.

did you look at the cv boots yourself and the oil pan and crank seal yourself and see if they are leaking as bad as they say? if they are leaking as bad as they say then you'd be dumping oil in the thing all the time to keep it running properly other wise you'd run dry on oil, not to mention you'd see oil covering **** all over in the engine bay and might even smell it burn every now and then on exhaust piping if its in the right spot.

i had half of those things you mentioned wrong with my 2nd civic like the door dropping when i opened it and some other things mentioned and i just drove the bitch hard and she ran. i changed a c.v. axle in the whole 2 years i had the car. thats it. and that was on a 200K civic dx that had been in a few accidents.

oh and fyi if you put 44 psi in there its going to get abnormal wear on the tires from the inside out, 32 is perfect for tires to run at. keeping the tires at 44 doesn't really do anything

95vxtealhatch

It sounds like they are streching the truth a little bit. motor seals don't NEED to be replaced as long as you keep oil in the motor. If you want your car brough back up to like new condition then have the guys do all that stuff to your car.

CivicSpoon

You definitely got screwed by the person you bought it from. But it sounds like you probably got a little screwed by the shop you're taking it to. But that is kind of the shops job, to make money. If you take your car to a shop, they're going to try to sell you as many parts as possible, that's how they stay in business. But with all of that money you have spent, you could have bought yourself a Helms service manual, tools, jackstands, and an air compressor (for air tools), and done all that work yourself for cheaper.

dangthemang

did you carfax the vin before you bought it? wouldn't all those accidents show up if you did?

roadsqueegy95

ya man most shops always "find" something that needs fixed, i remember when i took my EM1 in to get inspected, they told me my aftermarket control arms that lowered my car needed to be replaced with oem ones. i said sir, controls arms are stock, and my coilovers is what lows the car, he studdered a lil and put a sticker on my car !!

KrazyDawg

The boots were never changed out. I drove the car without those repairs for over 29k miles. The right tie rod end boot, however was replaced after the 135k inspection was performed. They didn't mention anything about the other boots until my oil change two days ago and the cv boots issue is a new one that wasn't previously mentioned. That's why I'm wondering if they're telling the truth or they're not paying attention.

I brought up the tire pressure for that reason. Contrary to what most people believe, the max sidewell is safe. The hypermiling community at cleanmpg have been running it at the max side well for quite some time. I've been running it at that tire pressure for over 11 months and I've been told my tires still look new. I'm able to coast farther and for a longer period of time. My cornering is also better. There's an article about police officers that use a higher tire pressure http://www.officer.com/article/artic...on=19&id=27281

I did check on carfax prior to purchase. It didn't show anything. The title had listed the prior owner but not the name of the body shop owner, so it didn't have the most up-to-date record.

I'm still a car newbie. I learned how to change my headlights after someone showed me and I've also managed to install my radio and do the wiring for it. The antenna also needed to be replaced which I failed at but in that attempt I managed to somehow stop the power window on the driver side from working. I'm good with computers but I also learned them inside and out by messing it up first hand. I rather not do that with a car and I don't see myself as a great DIY person. I have a friend that's a mechanic but he's not exactly a close friend and he also lives 70 miles away from me.

jdmstatus13

damn dude...most def sounds like ur gettin raped

u might wanna get second opinions next time u take ur car in...compare what both o the shops say need replacing...as for the body damage that sucks man i know how it feels and it might be a good decision to get rid of it...might cost u more in the long run than losin some dough in it right now...

ALLxMOTOR EG

Cost less to do your own work

xwhitchx

3200 for a salvaged car? i got mine for 1600 and that was too much, as for all the rest of you problems, go buy a book on your car, and do it all you self like i did, i when to the shop, and there were going to charge me 800 to fix the front main seal, so i when to honda and got the seal for $8 and 1 hour later no more leak and i still have the $792 that they were going to charge me. so what im treing to say is, do it all your self its cheaper and you feel better about it cuz you did it

94EG8

Its kind of hard to say if you're getting ripped off or not without actually knowing if the stuff the claim is bad really is, and it also depends on just how much they are charging you. Cracked boots are common, and yes if you let them go you will get dirt in the joints and ruin them. You can look under any 14 year old car and nearly always find stuff that should be done. The key is knowing what can wait and what can't.

lovelove

why a salvage car????? damn, I'm thinking that you have the money to fix everything. why not another car without a salvage title so it will be much more easier to get insurance for a car with a clean title. you should slap yourself and think it over again!!!

KrazyDawg

This is my second car, the first one I had was "totaled." So, I needed a car and after checking craigslist this was the better deal (Civics in the San Francisco bay area are not cheap). There was another civic of the same year and model with more miles listed for $4,500 with the roof rusted. Other cars I looked at were out of my range in either distance or price and I already took to much time off of work. It might seem like an impulse purchase now but the car is reliable. I'm more concerned about whether I can trust my mechanic since it seems like I'm getting repairs quoted every time I go in.

Hondas are reliable and supposedly last forever so I figured even if it was salvage it shouldn't have any problems...

Labor and parts would run me $562.50 before tax and after the 10% discount applied. I'm getting a second opinion at Firestone tomorrow but I'll likely be driving 20 mi out to Berkeley to get it checked out. There's a shop called Art's Automotive that works on Japanese cars with great reviews. http://www.yelp.com/biz/arts-automotive-berkeley

john666

afew things you listed typical things i feel you will have to replace with a older honda.
honestly i think you just over paid on a salvaged car and any shop will tell you to replace everything and anything expecially if you arent mechanically inclined.
honestly i think afew of those things you HAVE to replace are cheap to do if you have afew basic tools.

Warhawk

Well, lets think about it this way. So far you have put $6,000 into a beat up poorly maintained vehicle that has frame damage and has been in at least 2 major accidents. This is outrageous!!

The KBB value of my '00 civic which runs FLAWLESSLY and has not been in a single accident, is also worth around $6,000!! And if you follow through with the repairs you would have almost spend $7,000 on this car!! That is ludacris!! Like somone else said, get a helms manual, they are usually like 14 bucks on amazon and go from there.

93wip

you really need to learn how to do your own work. it will save you alot of money and time. get your self a haynes or chiltons manual and read it. it will tell you just about everything you need to know. they are based on a complete teardown and rebuild. Working on cars is really very easy if you have some common sense and just take your time.

Pothole987

I would say you are getting ripped off. either you overpaid for the car or the shop is just looking for fast cash sort of thing.
Did you have the car looked at by a garage to make sure everything was in good working order, or are you the type who is like, hmm i like the color, i'll take it for a quick spin and give you the money. honestly, 3200 for a salvaged 14 year old car is kind of ... much. if you say your brake pedal is going to the floor, then you have a master cylinder problem. i've heard of the whole 40PSI in the tires thing to make your gas mileage improve. But did you know, as the tire turns on the car it makes heat. this heat then adds to your PSI so your PSI is now higher than rated if at COLD its at 44. So be cautious of that.

other than that i've had oil pan problems where it would not seal what so ever. i used an OEM gasket, RTV sealant on it and it still leaked. but if its leaking the shop SHOULD COVER IT SINCE IT WAS THEIR MISTAKE. I would keep up with the oil changes but perhaps get a second, even third opinion other than the ones you stated.

eg613

yeah I think your geting ripped a good one man, watch your shelf some shops do this kind of thing to make more money

No_xqcs

Yes you got ripped off and keep getting ripped off.

Instead of spending $3000 dollars in repairs, you should have bought tools, and parts from a parts store or even a dealership

wow if i was a shop owner i would be ripping dumb people like you new ones too.

stop believing what the shops are telling you, they only want your monies

KrazyDawg

The "$3000" wasn't just in repairs. If you look at the spreadsheet it was spent on scheduled maintenance items and parts that needed to be replaced such as the battery, front windshield since I had a crack that ran from the passenger side to the driver's side (this happened months after I had the car), headlights, timing belt and water pump, etc. It adds up over time.

89excoupe

hey man not to add to the negative comments or anything but im in li, New york..and i got a 99 ex with 90k on it for 3500 with very minor glitches that dont bother the everyday use of my car..i know hondas arent the cheapest and i imagine its more down there but u def been getting ripped of since you bought the car i mean if u really needed a car after u totalled ur old one dats cool but save a little on the repairs and just drive it till u can afford a better car man its way too many headaches....and btw oil changes are the easiest thing to do i been doin them myself since i was like 16

Jimster480

all in all your getting ripped off. You overpaid for the car and your overpaying for the work. You need to learn how to do your own work or you will continue to get ripped off by shops forever.

ccarey

Doesn't seem to appear you got ripped off, sounds more like you bought a car you that was never taken care of from someone who also had no idea how it was treated. But no worries it can still be a great car. As far as you services go sounds like the shop just did not do a great inspection. Let me share how we do it. I work for a Honda Dealership as a service advisor and if your car came through, I would have recommended a 120k service which has you oil and filter change, tire rotation, engine air filter, interior cabin filter, spark plugs, valve adjustment, idle adjustment, transmission service, all of your inspections which include interior, exterior under hood, under vehicle, tire tread measurement and wear pattern, battery test, fluids topped off and replaces your coolant. This service runs about $400 bucks and takes about 3 hours total. From there any and all problems should be found if they are visible at that time. Then a quote be made which includes parts tax and labor for each item. Bear in mind everyone thinks that there shops are trying to screw them over which that is not always true because they know you as a customer can call them out at any time and request to see what they are talking about. They will show you and from there you can make your own judgement call as to weather you feel it is bad enough to replace or not. So all in all I recommend a honda dealership they may be higher but there parts have warranty that covers the labor and they will be more likely to catch things the first time since working on Hondas are what they do everyday

Jimster480

lol he way overpaid for what he got though.

LumpyTheGrumpyCamshaft

i skipped everything and just saw how much everyone is talking about it, yes you are getting ripped off it you have a list of **** that long. It's a civic dood, i can find 20 right now for 1k