Alternator Fuse - Running car?
07-09-2007, 10:10 AM
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Alternator Fuse - Running car?
I'm currently blowing fuse 15 in accordance with this diagram:
As you can see from this diagram it's the alternator (among other things) fuse:
I need to make like a 20 mile (one way) trip and it needs to be in this car. That fuse will blow not even 30 seconds of driving it - so I'm thinking, am I actually going to make it there? Or with that fuse blown will the alternator not charge the battery and then the car will run off the battery and die in <10 miles...
Or would it maintain a charge enough to continuously fire?
I find it hard to believe that this underdash mini 7.5a fuse is the sole fuse for the alternator, but I suppose anything is possible.
If anybody could give me some insight on that I'd greatly appreciate it.
As you can see from this diagram it's the alternator (among other things) fuse:
I need to make like a 20 mile (one way) trip and it needs to be in this car. That fuse will blow not even 30 seconds of driving it - so I'm thinking, am I actually going to make it there? Or with that fuse blown will the alternator not charge the battery and then the car will run off the battery and die in <10 miles...
Or would it maintain a charge enough to continuously fire?
I find it hard to believe that this underdash mini 7.5a fuse is the sole fuse for the alternator, but I suppose anything is possible.
If anybody could give me some insight on that I'd greatly appreciate it.
07-09-2007, 10:15 AM
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PS: I'm thinking about bringing a booster pack and running it until the bat dies - then pulling over, replacing the fuse (since it doesn't pop at idle) - charge that bat up a little, and rinse and repeat.
That's gonna be VERY repetitive and VERY time consuming, but I may not have any other choice
.
That's gonna be VERY repetitive and VERY time consuming, but I may not have any other choice
.
07-09-2007, 10:19 AM
#3
Re: (Syndacate)
Looking at the diagram, it would seem that fuse also protects the VSS circuit. Since your fuse does not pop at idle, maybe there is something wrong with the VSS circuit. Try revving the car in neutral and see if it pops. If it only pops when you start moving it may very well be VSS-related.
07-09-2007, 01:01 PM
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Re: (DaiJekBok)
I know what the problem is and possibly can fix it tonight, but if I don't fix it I wanna know if the car will be able to drive the 20mi per way or will the alt not charge the bat and the car die 10 miles out tehre.
07-09-2007, 08:26 PM
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there is a technical service bulletin (TSB) about this problem on the 96+ Civics. Talk to a dealer to get the printout. Basically the harness that runs to your alternator (under the intake manifold) is shorting out to the intake manifold.
07-09-2007, 09:01 PM
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Re: (TomO)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TomO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">there is a technical service bulletin (TSB) about this problem on the 96+ Civics. Talk to a dealer to get the printout. Basically the harness that runs to your alternator (under the intake manifold) is shorting out to the intake manifold.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I know.
I know what's causing the problem but I can't repair it yet - I need an IM gasket so I can remove the intake manifold to work on the harness - but the point is simply whether or not the car's alternator kick on w/ that 7.5a fuse blown or will it drain off the battery and then die?
Yes, I know.
I know what's causing the problem but I can't repair it yet - I need an IM gasket so I can remove the intake manifold to work on the harness - but the point is simply whether or not the car's alternator kick on w/ that 7.5a fuse blown or will it drain off the battery and then die?
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07-09-2007, 10:41 PM
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according to teh TSB you just need to jack up the front of the car, slide under it and pull down the wire, tape it up, put some corrugated tube over it and it's fixed.
Why would you need to remove the intake manifold?
Why would you need to remove the intake manifold?
07-10-2007, 06:52 AM
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Re: (TomO)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TomO »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">according to teh TSB you just need to jack up the front of the car, slide under it and pull down the wire, tape it up, put some corrugated tube over it and it's fixed.
Why would you need to remove the intake manifold?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Go find an EK, go slide under it, go look at this stupid harness, then tell me you don't think it'd be a lot more accessible from the top by removing the intake mani.
Though my Q isn't about that, that's a different question for a different thread - my Q is quite simple, with this 7.5a fuse blown, will my car's alternator output? Will I get power or will it drain the battery then die? I know it's not the "main" alternator fuse which is why I'm inquiring about it.
Why would you need to remove the intake manifold?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Go find an EK, go slide under it, go look at this stupid harness, then tell me you don't think it'd be a lot more accessible from the top by removing the intake mani.
Though my Q isn't about that, that's a different question for a different thread - my Q is quite simple, with this 7.5a fuse blown, will my car's alternator output? Will I get power or will it drain the battery then die? I know it's not the "main" alternator fuse which is why I'm inquiring about it.
07-10-2007, 07:27 AM
#10
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Re: (Syndacate)
No, the alternator will not charge without that fuse. You will be running off of the battery. I can't say for certain how many miles you'd get out of a freshly charged battery, but if anything, don't go at night when you have to use the lights, etc.
07-10-2007, 01:55 PM
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Re: (EE_Chris)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EE_Chris »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, the alternator will not charge without that fuse. You will be running off of the battery. I can't say for certain how many miles you'd get out of a freshly charged battery, but if anything, don't go at night when you have to use the lights, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I plan on going tomorrow during the day so I don't have to use the headlights and bringing a booster pack - maybe I'll bring an extra battery as well if I can find one.
Yeah, I plan on going tomorrow during the day so I don't have to use the headlights and bringing a booster pack - maybe I'll bring an extra battery as well if I can find one.
07-10-2007, 02:37 PM
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Alright, so I just went out there and started the car (fuse was blown from yesterday) - I unplugged the battery - died.
I put a new fuse in there and started it up - unplugged the battery, and it idled fine.
The problem is it'll idle fine for an hour w/o the battery connected, but as soon as I got >5mph or so the fuse will pop.
I was wondering if I could find a way around that.
I wonder if...
Would it be damaging to the car if I put like a 20a fuse in there (assuming it doesn't blow) as a temporary band-aid?
I put a new fuse in there and started it up - unplugged the battery, and it idled fine.
The problem is it'll idle fine for an hour w/o the battery connected, but as soon as I got >5mph or so the fuse will pop
.I was wondering if I could find a way around that.
I wonder if...
Would it be damaging to the car if I put like a 20a fuse in there (assuming it doesn't blow) as a temporary band-aid?
07-10-2007, 02:51 PM
#13
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great way to start fires, by jumping up fuses.......
you have a short, a larger fuse wont hold anyway
fix your **** today - it will take like an hour
you have a short, a larger fuse wont hold anyway
fix your **** today - it will take like an hour
07-10-2007, 03:17 PM
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Re: (pdiggitydogg)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pdiggitydogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">great way to start fires, by jumping up fuses.......
you have a short, a larger fuse wont hold anyway
fix your **** today - it will take like an hour</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't see how you can do it on the ground - you need a lift - to do it on the ground it appears as though the IM needs to be removed first (which ultimately would give me like 100% access).
I'm missing something here - I read the damn service bulletin, I see no way to lay on ur back, reach around the axle, around the header, around the motor mount, to the harness which you can barely reach - and wrap each wire individually.
The Honda TSB mentions a LIFT - I have ramps and I can use jacks if needed - there's a bit of a difference between that and a lift.
Though even on a lift, it's a ****-ton easier to access it w/ the IM removed as everybody knows.
you have a short, a larger fuse wont hold anyway
fix your **** today - it will take like an hour</TD></TR></TABLE>
I don't see how you can do it on the ground - you need a lift - to do it on the ground it appears as though the IM needs to be removed first (which ultimately would give me like 100% access).
I'm missing something here - I read the damn service bulletin, I see no way to lay on ur back, reach around the axle, around the header, around the motor mount, to the harness which you can barely reach - and wrap each wire individually.
The Honda TSB mentions a LIFT - I have ramps and I can use jacks if needed - there's a bit of a difference between that and a lift.
Though even on a lift, it's a ****-ton easier to access it w/ the IM removed as everybody knows
.
07-10-2007, 03:49 PM
#15
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Honda says lift for everything....Im sure it says lift to drain the oil...
Hell, I can move my arm around and under my intake manifold.
Can you change an oil filter? If so, then you can access the harness point.
If you can just slide some tubing over it, that would probably be fine for awhile.
Get it started, slide it down.
Easy? No. However, you seem to be in a tight spot, so suck it up and give it a shot. What do you have to lose - Time.
Hell, I can move my arm around and under my intake manifold.
Can you change an oil filter? If so, then you can access the harness point.
If you can just slide some tubing over it, that would probably be fine for awhile.
Get it started, slide it down.
Easy? No. However, you seem to be in a tight spot, so suck it up and give it a shot. What do you have to lose - Time.
07-10-2007, 04:01 PM
#16
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Re: (pdiggitydogg)
I had this problem plague me because of my own stupidity. I swapped a B16A in my 2000 civic and the second O2 harness shorted to the body (because I tucked it in the car without taping it) and it caused my speedo to fail, alt fuse to blow, and the ELD to throw a code. This was all caused by the second O2 sensor heater shorting to ground, took me 3 freaking days to solve that.
Are you throwing any codes? Mine threw a bunch. That would be the most logical place to start.
That little fuse is for the alt. field coil, the rotor shaft in the alternator is energized by that fuse so that the stator can make power, and the input varies based on the demand.
Alternators use electromagnetic fields to induce stator current.
Are you throwing any codes? Mine threw a bunch. That would be the most logical place to start.
That little fuse is for the alt. field coil, the rotor shaft in the alternator is energized by that fuse so that the stator can make power, and the input varies based on the demand.
Alternators use electromagnetic fields to induce stator current.
07-10-2007, 04:03 PM
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Re: (slowcivic2k)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowcivic2k »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I had this problem plague me because of my own stupidity. I swapped a B16A in my 2000 civic and the second O2 harness shorted to the body (because I tucked it in the car without taping it) and it caused my speedo to fail, alt fuse to blow, and the ELD to throw a code. This was all caused by the second O2 sensor heater shorting to ground, took me 3 freaking days to solve that.
Are you throwing any codes? Mine threw a bunch. That would be the most logical place to start.
That little fuse is for the alt. field coil, the armature in the alternator is energized by that fuse so that the stator can make power, and the input varies based on the demand.
Alternators use electromagnetic fields to induce stator current.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I'm throwing all those codes b/c the fuse keeps popping. I'm going to check the primary and secondary O2 sensors as well - re-tape them, make sure they're not the culprit.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pdiggitydogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda says lift for everything....Im sure it says lift to drain the oil...
Hell, I can move my arm around and under my intake manifold.
Can you change an oil filter? If so, then you can access the harness point.
If you can just slide some tubing over it, that would probably be fine for awhile.
Get it started, slide it down.
Easy? No. However, you seem to be in a tight spot, so suck it up and give it a shot. What do you have to lose - Time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good idea, I'll try to put some tubing or something around it and hope that it can insulate it long enough for me to get time to work on it (outside of RAMPS on my LAWN).
I'll give it a whirl - thx.
Are you throwing any codes? Mine threw a bunch. That would be the most logical place to start.
That little fuse is for the alt. field coil, the armature in the alternator is energized by that fuse so that the stator can make power, and the input varies based on the demand.
Alternators use electromagnetic fields to induce stator current.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah, I'm throwing all those codes b/c the fuse keeps popping. I'm going to check the primary and secondary O2 sensors as well - re-tape them, make sure they're not the culprit.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pdiggitydogg »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda says lift for everything....Im sure it says lift to drain the oil...
Hell, I can move my arm around and under my intake manifold.
Can you change an oil filter? If so, then you can access the harness point.
If you can just slide some tubing over it, that would probably be fine for awhile.
Get it started, slide it down.
Easy? No. However, you seem to be in a tight spot, so suck it up and give it a shot. What do you have to lose - Time.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Good idea, I'll try to put some tubing or something around it and hope that it can insulate it long enough for me to get time to work on it (outside of RAMPS on my LAWN).
I'll give it a whirl - thx.
07-10-2007, 04:19 PM
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Re: (Syndacate)
I'll put all my money on the thick white wire running from the alt. to the ELD.(fuse block) It's most like rubbing against the passenger side shock tower. And yes, there is a TSB for OBD2A civics blowing that fuse. Your alt. is probably charging @ 12v with the fuse blown. You do NOT have to take the IM off to access it. Again, the thick white wire running from the alt. to the ELD.
07-10-2007, 04:24 PM
#19
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Re: (3 Dough)
That is the chargeback wire, and that has NOTHING to do with that fuse blowing, that would blow the 80A fuse in the fuse block if it shorted.
That fuse controls the field circuit in the rotor, like I just said, and it will NOT charge if it is blown, as the electromagnets would have no field to interact with.
That fuse controls the field circuit in the rotor, like I just said, and it will NOT charge if it is blown, as the electromagnets would have no field to interact with.
07-10-2007, 04:46 PM
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Re: (slowcivic2k)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowcivic2k »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is the chargeback wire, and that has NOTHING to do with that fuse blowing, that would blow the 80A fuse in the fuse block if it shorted.
That fuse controls the field circuit in the rotor, like I just said, and it will NOT charge if it is blown, as the electromagnets would have no field to interact with.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wanna bet? I have 3 certifications in automobile electrical, two of them being ASE's. And that's on top of being a Master tech with 7 years field experience.
Just for *****, expose the wire and groud it to the chasis, tell me which fuse blows.
That fuse controls the field circuit in the rotor, like I just said, and it will NOT charge if it is blown, as the electromagnets would have no field to interact with.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wanna bet? I have 3 certifications in automobile electrical, two of them being ASE's. And that's on top of being a Master tech with 7 years field experience.
Just for *****, expose the wire and groud it to the chasis, tell me which fuse blows.
07-10-2007, 04:54 PM
#21
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Re: (3 Dough)
80A underhood fuse will blow, look at a wiring diagram you fool.....
WOW, would you look at that..... the 7.5A fuse feeds the rotor field windings just like I said, and all you have to do is look at the WHT or WHT/RED wire to see that if you ground it, the 80A fuse blows, nice try.....
A1-A8 Automotive ASE tests.... pending my master technician patches... not to brag or anything....
WOW, would you look at that..... the 7.5A fuse feeds the rotor field windings just like I said, and all you have to do is look at the WHT or WHT/RED wire to see that if you ground it, the 80A fuse blows, nice try.....
A1-A8 Automotive ASE tests.... pending my master technician patches... not to brag or anything....
07-10-2007, 05:59 PM
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Re: (slowcivic2k)
A1-A8 Automotive ASE tests.... pending my master technician patches... not to brag or anything....[/QUOTE]
Is that all?? Just a regular old Master tech? PENDING AT THAT!! I have 10 ASE's. Past A1-A8 3 years ago. Im coming up on renewal soon. Maybe by then you won't be pending anymore.
07-10-2007, 06:13 PM
#24
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Re: (3 Dough)
Good for you, 8 is all I need to do my job, and ASE's don't make you smart, experience does. And if you can't understand my logic before my diagram post (which by the way, is how 99% of vehicles on the road run their charging systems.) don't post if you don't have anything but your T-shirt and wallet to prove your point, this is not the World Series of Poker....
