all motor or turbo???
10-10-2003, 01:20 PM
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all motor or turbo???
I ahve a civic si with a drag gen 111 kit but all it brings is problems, so i was considering doing a motor swap, a b18c(jdm). what do you think? Do you think that motor will be able to pull my car or is it a waste of time?
10-10-2003, 01:26 PM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (shotty527)
haha, well you have to be more specific. JDM GSR's and ITRS are stamped the same.
but, be more specific, what kinds of problems are you having, and whats your current setup? WHP? PSI? fuel management?
but, be more specific, what kinds of problems are you having, and whats your current setup? WHP? PSI? fuel management?
10-10-2003, 01:31 PM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (JUN EK9)
my current problem is that i think i blew my turbo becuz oil is coming back through my bov and also becuz it is not pulling hard at all. i dont know much about turbos so i am trying to learn, what do you think, all motor would be a hell of a lot easier
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10-10-2003, 01:42 PM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (shotty527)
ironically all motor is alot harder to acheive hp and tq then turbo. imo. granted you can get crazy with turbo kits just like all motor. but a drag kit is as simple as they come (besides greddy). everything you need and not too many problems if your only looking for moderate hp gains.
find out whats going on with your drag kit. shouldnt be more expensive to fix then buying a new motor.
find out whats going on with your drag kit. shouldnt be more expensive to fix then buying a new motor.
10-10-2003, 08:23 PM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (shotty527)
before you put a turbo on your car, you should learn as much as possible about how it works, so things like that wont happen. i suggest you get the book maximum boost by corky bell - read it, and *understand* it. in my opinion, you should stay turbo: read that book, fix what you have, and most importantly, modify it so it doesnt break again - good fuel management and tuning. 
10-10-2003, 08:34 PM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (jwn7)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jwn7 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">before you put a turbo on your car, you should learn as much as possible about how it works, so things like that wont happen. i suggest you get the book maximum boost by corky bell - read it, and *understand* it. in my opinion, you should stay turbo: read that book, fix what you have, and most importantly, modify it so it doesnt break again - good fuel management and tuning. </TD></TR></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TABLE>
10-10-2003, 09:09 PM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (97itr86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97itr86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All motor has it's problems to bro. No way to get big horsepower numbers without the chance of problems occuring.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, obviously.
But we can rely behind the H emblem that it wont.
I got a 99 Si no doubt in my mind in going all motor still got the stock short block running on a shitload of Jun including a 3rd stage head package. I have no redline and yes at many times when Im behind in a race I do take it past 9500rpms.
I got 60,400 miles, still runnin strong, I've got tons of suspension problems, but the motor is still solid.
In the near future I really am lookin onto a different block, for sure an acura trany and hopefully some final drive/lsd goodies.
Go with a c5, dont be sceered on some high revs, get her tuned safely and have fun.
Good Luck.
Well, obviously.
But we can rely behind the H emblem that it wont.
I got a 99 Si no doubt in my mind in going all motor still got the stock short block running on a shitload of Jun including a 3rd stage head package. I have no redline and yes at many times when Im behind in a race I do take it past 9500rpms.
I got 60,400 miles, still runnin strong, I've got tons of suspension problems, but the motor is still solid.
In the near future I really am lookin onto a different block, for sure an acura trany and hopefully some final drive/lsd goodies.
Go with a c5, dont be sceered on some high revs, get her tuned safely and have fun.
Good Luck.
10-11-2003, 06:18 AM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (SLeePeR012)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SLeePeR012 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well, obviously.
But we can rely behind the H emblem that it wont.
I got a 99 Si no doubt in my mind in going all motor still got the stock short block running on a shitload of Jun including a 3rd stage head package. I have no redline and yes at many times when Im behind in a race I do take it past 9500rpms.
I got 60,400 miles, still runnin strong, I've got tons of suspension problems, but the motor is still solid.
In the near future I really am lookin onto a different block, for sure an acura trany and hopefully some final drive/lsd goodies.
Go with a c5, dont be sceered on some high revs, get her tuned safely and have fun.
Good Luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There is also tons of people that get owned by going all motor. A good friend of mine on here with an ITR swapped hatch running some Toda B's had the worst experience I have ever seen. For the amount of money it takes to build a fast all motor setup it is insane. I am not saying I don't like all motor because I really do. You may have some good luck so far but there alot of people on here that went all motor and had some serious problems. I seem to here alot of people having problems with their JUN cams breaking. No matter what problems are gonna always develope.
Well, obviously.
But we can rely behind the H emblem that it wont.
I got a 99 Si no doubt in my mind in going all motor still got the stock short block running on a shitload of Jun including a 3rd stage head package. I have no redline and yes at many times when Im behind in a race I do take it past 9500rpms.
I got 60,400 miles, still runnin strong, I've got tons of suspension problems, but the motor is still solid.
In the near future I really am lookin onto a different block, for sure an acura trany and hopefully some final drive/lsd goodies.
Go with a c5, dont be sceered on some high revs, get her tuned safely and have fun.
Good Luck.</TD></TR></TABLE>
There is also tons of people that get owned by going all motor. A good friend of mine on here with an ITR swapped hatch running some Toda B's had the worst experience I have ever seen. For the amount of money it takes to build a fast all motor setup it is insane. I am not saying I don't like all motor because I really do. You may have some good luck so far but there alot of people on here that went all motor and had some serious problems. I seem to here alot of people having problems with their JUN cams breaking. No matter what problems are gonna always develope.
10-11-2003, 06:53 AM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (97itr86)
spend the money to get it fixed and tuned, definetly cheaper and easier than trying to pull it, sell it, and get another motor.
Hopefully, unless you've just got something retarded in there, it should turn out to be faster than the R swap.
Don't give up, giving up is for quitters.
Hopefully, unless you've just got something retarded in there, it should turn out to be faster than the R swap.
Don't give up, giving up is for quitters.
10-11-2003, 07:29 AM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (Plan B)
all motor is absolutely wonderful IF you have LOTS of money to spend.
all motor power bands are so much fun to use and if you ever track race it or do autox it it is better IMHO.
but if you are using it as just a street car and intend on it being somewhat fast, stick with your turbo set up. just get the oil seal fixed and you are good to go.
do some tuning( hondata) and have some fun.
later on you can swap the block for a 1.8 and make a lot more power. good luck man.
all motor power bands are so much fun to use and if you ever track race it or do autox it it is better IMHO.
but if you are using it as just a street car and intend on it being somewhat fast, stick with your turbo set up. just get the oil seal fixed and you are good to go.
do some tuning( hondata) and have some fun.
later on you can swap the block for a 1.8 and make a lot more power. good luck man.
10-11-2003, 07:47 AM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (97itr86)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97itr86 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There is also tons of people that get owned by going all motor. A good friend of mine on here with an ITR swapped hatch running some Toda B's had the worst experience I have ever seen. For the amount of money it takes to build a fast all motor setup it is insane. I am not saying I don't like all motor because I really do. You may have some good luck so far but there alot of people on here that went all motor and had some serious problems. I seem to here alot of people having problems with their JUN cams breaking. No matter what problems are gonna always develope.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont got a lot of money, I wished I had some ek9 pistons and such, whatever. I understand **** breaks, but hey, so do hair dryers. Its quite obvious somethin isnt working right in his turbo set up. I honestly do believe all motor is funner (IMO) and more reliable (IMO). Im at 105hp per liter at the wheels, pretty satisfied, and proud.
Bottomline: Yea A/M costs a pretty penny, turbos are great, but not my taste. In this case, if he's not happy, why not try something else, something less reliant on a hairdryer and see what they got for non-forced inducted Honda powaaaa, it may jus surprise you.
There is also tons of people that get owned by going all motor. A good friend of mine on here with an ITR swapped hatch running some Toda B's had the worst experience I have ever seen. For the amount of money it takes to build a fast all motor setup it is insane. I am not saying I don't like all motor because I really do. You may have some good luck so far but there alot of people on here that went all motor and had some serious problems. I seem to here alot of people having problems with their JUN cams breaking. No matter what problems are gonna always develope.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I dont got a lot of money, I wished I had some ek9 pistons and such, whatever. I understand **** breaks, but hey, so do hair dryers. Its quite obvious somethin isnt working right in his turbo set up. I honestly do believe all motor is funner (IMO) and more reliable (IMO). Im at 105hp per liter at the wheels, pretty satisfied, and proud.
Bottomline: Yea A/M costs a pretty penny, turbos are great, but not my taste. In this case, if he's not happy, why not try something else, something less reliant on a hairdryer and see what they got for non-forced inducted Honda powaaaa, it may jus surprise you.
10-11-2003, 08:01 AM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (jeremyEG)
Just get a ITR short block. I'll tell you what I have seen with my own car.
I owned a 00 si and wanted to make it faster. I already had the I/H/E. I got the JUN III head package (cams, camgears, valvesprings & retainers) along with a v-afc, OBD-II to OBDI conversion harness, P28 ecu and a day of dyno time with Yoshio. Bottom line:
Price $2900
HP: 24 to the wheels
Reliablity: Just like stock
My reaction: Nice but damm $2900 for 24 HP All motor is $$$!
**Also Yoshio said that I could have yeilded more HP if I had 2.5 from header to exhaust**
After I got tried of my JUN III set up I decided to try turbo on for size. I took the cams and a month later I had my Drag III kit in. Various gauges..etc( too long to list)
Price: $3300
HP: 60 to the wheels on 7.5 pounds of boost
Reliablity: 70% of stock
Everyone says that all motor is alot of money which is true. On the other had turbo takes just as much patience and money. The only difference in my opinion is that the differences in HP are very noticeable with turbo. In all motor they are very suttle. Example: Pistons
All motor 11.1 compression piston install 15-20 HP
Turbo 9.1 compression pistons install crank up boost 40-50 HP.
Cliff notes:
All motor and Turbo are the same. They both take $$, time and patience to produce good numbers and be reliable.
I owned a 00 si and wanted to make it faster. I already had the I/H/E. I got the JUN III head package (cams, camgears, valvesprings & retainers) along with a v-afc, OBD-II to OBDI conversion harness, P28 ecu and a day of dyno time with Yoshio. Bottom line:
Price $2900
HP: 24 to the wheels
Reliablity: Just like stock
My reaction: Nice but damm $2900 for 24 HP All motor is $$$!
**Also Yoshio said that I could have yeilded more HP if I had 2.5 from header to exhaust**
After I got tried of my JUN III set up I decided to try turbo on for size. I took the cams and a month later I had my Drag III kit in. Various gauges..etc( too long to list)
Price: $3300
HP: 60 to the wheels on 7.5 pounds of boost
Reliablity: 70% of stock
Everyone says that all motor is alot of money which is true. On the other had turbo takes just as much patience and money. The only difference in my opinion is that the differences in HP are very noticeable with turbo. In all motor they are very suttle. Example: Pistons
All motor 11.1 compression piston install 15-20 HP
Turbo 9.1 compression pistons install crank up boost 40-50 HP.
Cliff notes:
All motor and Turbo are the same. They both take $$, time and patience to produce good numbers and be reliable.
10-11-2003, 08:19 AM
#22
Re: all motor or turbo??? (Nerv2g)
leave it turbo! all you did was blow your seals on the turbo...just buy a kit or if you know nothing about turbos then have someone...maybe a reputiable shop around your area rebuild it for you. there are tons of things to learn when it comes to going FI. first you've got to learn about the motor just like n/a people do...then you've got to take it to the next setup and learn about the FI system you'll be using and either you work around your motor or build your motor around your FI system. NOTHING is easy when wanting more power. like my buddies and myself always say when one of our cars break down, HIGH PERFORMANCE = HIGH MAINTENANCE.
oh and for those who think that all motor cars are more suitable for autocrossing...you can build a turbo car for autocrossing that will be just as fast if not faster. it's all in the parts you choose to put on. if all the parts work in harmony and you've got a smaller/medium turbo with or without a ballbearing center section, you've got a killer machine with instant power on tap. i ran a small T3 .48/.42 before i got into high hp applications and i tell you, by 2k i was flying already in full boost. top end was still decent as well at 9 psi.
oh and for those who think that all motor cars are more suitable for autocrossing...you can build a turbo car for autocrossing that will be just as fast if not faster. it's all in the parts you choose to put on. if all the parts work in harmony and you've got a smaller/medium turbo with or without a ballbearing center section, you've got a killer machine with instant power on tap. i ran a small T3 .48/.42 before i got into high hp applications and i tell you, by 2k i was flying already in full boost. top end was still decent as well at 9 psi.
10-11-2003, 08:27 AM
#23
Re: all motor or turbo??? (Nerv2g)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nerv2g »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Everyone says that all motor is alot of money which is true. On the other had turbo takes just as much patience and money. The only difference in my opinion is that the differences in HP are very noticeable with turbo. In all motor they are very suttle. Example: Pistons
All motor 11.1 compression piston install 15-20 HP
Turbo 9.1 compression pistons install crank up boost 40-50 HP.
Cliff notes:
All motor and Turbo are the same. They both take $$, time and patience to produce good numbers and be reliable.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
it is not even neccesary to lower your compression to 9:1 if you're just going to drive it on the street and every now and then on the track. stock compression is fine with the stock map sensor limit which is around 10.65 psi. you'll make TONS of power and it'll drive just like stock. if you lower the compression, you'll have a little bit of a harder time driving at lower rpms, especially for a vtec motor which relies heavily on high compression.
All motor 11.1 compression piston install 15-20 HP
Turbo 9.1 compression pistons install crank up boost 40-50 HP.
Cliff notes:
All motor and Turbo are the same. They both take $$, time and patience to produce good numbers and be reliable.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
it is not even neccesary to lower your compression to 9:1 if you're just going to drive it on the street and every now and then on the track. stock compression is fine with the stock map sensor limit which is around 10.65 psi. you'll make TONS of power and it'll drive just like stock. if you lower the compression, you'll have a little bit of a harder time driving at lower rpms, especially for a vtec motor which relies heavily on high compression.
10-11-2003, 01:02 PM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (shermanyang)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shermanyang »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it is not even neccesary to lower your compression to 9:1 if you're just going to drive it on the street and every now and then on the track. stock compression is fine with the stock map sensor limit which is around 10.65 psi. you'll make TONS of power and it'll drive just like stock. if you lower the compression, you'll have a little bit of a harder time driving at lower rpms, especially for a vtec motor which relies heavily on high compression.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know it was just an example
it is not even neccesary to lower your compression to 9:1 if you're just going to drive it on the street and every now and then on the track. stock compression is fine with the stock map sensor limit which is around 10.65 psi. you'll make TONS of power and it'll drive just like stock. if you lower the compression, you'll have a little bit of a harder time driving at lower rpms, especially for a vtec motor which relies heavily on high compression.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I know it was just an example
10-11-2003, 01:38 PM
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Re: all motor or turbo??? (SLeePeR012)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SLeePeR012 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I dont got a lot of money, I wished I had some ek9 pistons and such, whatever. I understand **** breaks, but hey, so do hair dryers. Its quite obvious somethin isnt working right in his turbo set up. I honestly do believe all motor is funner (IMO) and more reliable (IMO). Im at 105hp per liter at the wheels, pretty satisfied, and proud.
Bottomline: Yea A/M costs a pretty penny, turbos are great, but not my taste. In this case, if he's not happy, why not try something else, something less reliant on a hairdryer and see what they got for non-forced inducted Honda powaaaa, it may jus surprise you. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah the problem in this case doesn't seem to serious. I just like boost.
I dont got a lot of money, I wished I had some ek9 pistons and such, whatever. I understand **** breaks, but hey, so do hair dryers. Its quite obvious somethin isnt working right in his turbo set up. I honestly do believe all motor is funner (IMO) and more reliable (IMO). Im at 105hp per liter at the wheels, pretty satisfied, and proud.
Bottomline: Yea A/M costs a pretty penny, turbos are great, but not my taste. In this case, if he's not happy, why not try something else, something less reliant on a hairdryer and see what they got for non-forced inducted Honda powaaaa, it may jus surprise you. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah the problem in this case doesn't seem to serious. I just like boost.