Petah

iTrader: (1)

I am about to install a AC kit which i have purchased at a local wreckers. I am flipping through the shop manual reading up on the information regarding the install and it seems that i will have to fill the system up with some compressor oil that lubes the compressor as it works. I can't seem to firgure out how do i fill the system up with this oil.....where do i add this oil? Any info? Thanks.

Caveman74

Do you have R-12 or 134a. They sell kits that come with all mixed together. Freon and oil. Go to a parts store they will have it there

GimpyAccord

basically what you're SUPPOSED to do is drain the oil out of the part you're changing into a graduated cylender and then refill with new oil in the same amount. when doing repair anyway.

However if you have a new system thats dry the pre-mix oil+freeon works pretty darn well, but that only applied to R-134 systems.

Nameless RB26

AC systems aren't things you mess with on your own.

If you bought it from a yard you need to put it all together, take it to a professional shop, and have them evacuate the system to clean it out (because it's usually contaminated), then they will fill it up with the correct stuff (134a).

BatuKing

Welll just to let you guys know.. Freon = R12 we dont use that term anymore..

Now just to let you know there is one disavantage to using the all in one containter. esp the Interdynamics.. If you get it and you use too much oil it will damage your AC systems compressor. Plus the so called sealer in side thats bad. If you ever want to get your AC system checked by a pro and they find the sealer they will either charge you more or just reject you. The sealer is the biggest problem right now in the Automotive industry as we speak.

If you dont have a vaccum pump or access to a AC machine then put it together by replacing the o-rings with the correct matching refegerant. Then take it to a shop who can check to see if your install when well by doing a vaccum test on your AC system. Then they can charge the system with the oil required. I know it will be expensive but it will be worth it. Infact if you have a local CC your attending see if they have an autoshop class and ask the instructor to see if they will work on charging your car for you.

Nameless RB26

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BatuKing &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Infact if you have a local CC your attending see if they have an autoshop class and ask the instructor to see if they will work on charging your car for you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

VERY good idea. We did many customer cars in my cc class.

GimpyAccord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Nameless EJ6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">AC systems aren't things you mess with on your own.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats bullshit, but I'm the kinda guy who buys 700 dollars of tools to do stuff myself. I own my own Robinair vacuum and a really nice set of Snap-on manifold guages (which i got cheap).

This guy should have NO PROBLEM putting the stuff in, new orings and stop short of putting in the dryer (go ahead and let them do this at the time of evacuation !) Just make sure you use a new expansion valve, might as well they're only 20-30 bucks... and it would suck to get screwed by that.

I agree the all-in-one **** does kinda suck, but on the otherhand I did 3 accords two years ago using it and thus FAR all is well.

freeon, refridgerent.. pick your word of the day AC is not the voodoo technology people would have you believe.

Nameless RB26

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GimpyAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thats bullshit, but I'm the kinda guy who buys 700 dollars of tools to do stuff myself. I own my own Robinair vacuum and a really nice set of Snap-on manifold guages (which i got cheap).</TD></TR></TABLE>

No ****? Well that's different. Did he say he had a vacuum or any AC system tools? I didn't think so. And I doubt filling his one AC system justifies going out and buying them.

Don't call me bullshit. It really isn't something someone messes with on their own without tools.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GimpyAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
AC is not the voodoo technology people would have you believe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

We're trying to let people know that it's not DIY ****. No one ever said it was some kind of rare skill to master.

I'm sorry if I come off as an ******* on this. I payed alot of attention in my AC course and I don't like to see people do it wrong. There are alot of people out there that do it wrong. And I'm not saying he is going to do it wrong.. just trying to guide him along before he starts.

GimpyAccord

I'm sorry for coming off rash dude, I understand where you're coming from... but heres my reasoning:

I say buy the tools, manifold guages are 100-800 depending on the quality .. and a simple venturi style vaccum (while not EPA approved hu hu hu) works a lot better than some of the electric vacuums as I found out after i blew 300 on mine I have about 600 in tools and I also have the venturi style vacuum and a hoss air compressor anyway. Basically a lot of AC shops try to shaft you as I'm sure you can agree. When my Mustang AC puked (which is why i ended up with all the tools) they wanted 1000 bucks... because they and otheres were crooked saying my compressor and evaporator were shot. Ended up being the orfice tube only so I saved myself big money and a lot of my friend too by helping them out too!

Once you're an "AC pro" suddenly you're everyones friend though.. which kinda sucks.

----

However I digress and agree that as long as he assembles and troubleshoots his AC system himself, but allows a shop to evacuate and charge his system he'll be sittin pretty. I apologize for any hard feelings.

Nameless RB26

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GimpyAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">as long as he assembles and troubleshoots his AC system himself, but allows a shop to evacuate and charge his system he'll be sittin pretty. I apologize for any hard feelings. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's basically all I should've said in my first post. Please disregard my crappiness.

Petah

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GimpyAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This guy should have NO PROBLEM putting the stuff in, new orings and stop short of putting in the dryer (go ahead and let them do this at the time of evacuation !) Just make sure you use a new expansion valve, might as well they're only 20-30 sucks... and it would suck to get screwed by that.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I really appreciate all the tips and hints regarding the AC....i am a newbie with this AC stuff so any tips will be helpful. Why should i not install the dryer myself? And where is this expansion valve?

=GAME=

expansion valve should be located in the evaporator box behind the glove.

mathusala

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Petah &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...Why should i not install the dryer myself?...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
The drier is a liquid line filter/receiver that also contains a dessicant. I don't see any reason you can't install it if you make sure your system is fairly clean to begin with. On 134a systems, vacuum pumps are for pussies. I just start blowing (slowly) a can of gas into the suction line and hook up the parts. After the system is sealed, vent the residual pressure down to just a trickle. If you've been reasonably careful, your system won't have any air in it. If you want to have a warm fuzzy feeling, blow another can of gas through it (daltons law). After that, figure out how much oil you need, add it (via oil/gas cans), and charge it. ... and Freon is a Dupont trademark.

GimpyAccord

Vaccum pumps are for pussies? Surely you jest! if your system can't hold a vacuum it sure as hell isnt going to hold any refridgerent. So that in itself would save you a lot of money/time rather than blowing refridgerent into the system and then just having it pissout. ALSO vaccuming is to get the MOISTURE out of the system (hello, ... evaporation when under vacuum).

The reason I suggest letting whoever does the evacuation install the dryer is that #1 on a EG+ Civic it takes all of 2 minutes to do. #2 you want to minimize the exposure to moisture in the dryer, which i hate to tell you won't do if you install it then putt-putt to your favorite AC shop.

I have tried before, and thats why I bought my vacuums. I promise you if you attempt to charge the system without first vacuuming you'll DEFINETLY need an expansion valve and another dryer very soon.

GimpyAccord

here are some pics from when i had to fix the AC on one of my EG... i forgot i had these



see that gold thing? thats the expansion valve



yikes... leaves anyone? good pic of the expansion valve for ya

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mathusala &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The drier is a liquid line filter/receiver that also contains a dessicant. I don't see any reason you can't install it if you make sure your system is fairly clean to begin with. On 134a systems, vacuum pumps are for pussies. I just start blowing (slowly) a can of gas into the suction line and hook up the parts. After the system is sealed, vent the residual pressure down to just a trickle. If you've been reasonably careful, your system won't have any air in it. If you want to have a warm fuzzy feeling, blow another can of gas through it (daltons law). After that, figure out how much oil you need, add it (via oil/gas cans), and charge it. ... and Freon is a Dupont trademark. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Its very scary to see what some people are doing out there to "fix" thier own AC systems. Lots of redneck oakie fixes and people who think they have a clue but really don't. Sure, you can half *** it, but its going to lead to problems later on down the road.

99blackcivicSi

well guess what anyone got a chiltons manual or any kind of other manual look up A/C system in there see what it say and i quote

"Repair or service of air conditioning components is not covered by this manual, because of the risk of personal injury or death, and because of the legal ramifications on servicing these components without proper EPA certification and experiance. Cost, personal injury or death , enviromental damage, and legal considerations (such as the fact it is a federal crime to vent refrigerant into the atomosphere), dictate that the A/C components on your vehicle should be serviced by a Motor Vehicle Air Conditioning (MVAC) trained, and EPA certified automotive technition"

Refrigerant is dangerous and most people shouldn't be allowed to work on it on thier own due to lack of experiance. If you have Little to NO experiance in dealing with such things DON'T do it. Take it to a professional and have it done.

I myself am like gimpy accord i have spent a shitload of money to buy the tools i need and i can do it my self but if you don't have access to tools or knowledge take it to a pro.

mathusala

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GimpyAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Vaccum pumps are for pussies? Surely you jest! if your system can't hold a vacuum it sure as hell isnt going to hold any refridgerent. So that in itself would save you a lot of money/time rather than blowing refridgerent into the system and then just having it pissout. ALSO vaccuming is to get the MOISTURE out of the system (hello, ... evaporation when under vacuum).

The reason I suggest letting whoever does the evacuation install the dryer is that #1 on a EG+ Civic it takes all of 2 minutes to do. #2 you want to minimize the exposure to moisture in the dryer, which i hate to tell you won't do if you install it then putt-putt to your favorite AC shop.

I have tried before, and thats why I bought my vacuums. I promise you if you attempt to charge the system without first vacuuming you'll DEFINETLY need an expansion valve and another dryer very soon.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think you have it backwards. Surely you are not suggesting that refrigeration mechanics find leaks on ac systems with a vacuum pump? I know all about evacuation, moisture, acid, oil, (every type of) expansion device, driers, contamination, condensor, evaporators... If you keep your system clean by purging gas through it while you're doing a little piddly work, you don't need to pull a 15 micron vacuum on your refrigeration system - just change the drier. If you try to pull a deep vacuum on a car system, you will just be pulling crap around (and ruining their little sealing abilities) the little o-ring joints that are designed to keep things in, not out.

If you want to help these poor smucks that are just trying to get cold, give some good real-world advice like DONT MIX mineral oil with 134a synthetic oil or don't expect your r12 o-rings to live very long with 134a synthetic oil...

And Hybrid93Eg, I'm not from Oklahoma, I've just worked a bit on sub -100 degree (2-stage) blood-plasma freezers.

And 99blackcivicSi, I actually agree with you, take it to a pro... but if a person can't afford $50 for that 2 min filter change and $100 bucks to charge the system maybe they'd like a little real-world advice on how to just get by...

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mathusala &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think you have it backwards. Surely you are not suggesting that refrigeration mechanics find leaks on ac systems with a vacuum pump? I know all about evacuation, moisture, acid, oil, (every type of) expansion device, driers, contamination, condensor, evaporators... If you keep your system clean by purging gas through it while you're doing a little piddly work, you don't need to pull a 15 micron vacuum on your refrigeration system - just change the drier. If you try to pull a deep vacuum on a car system, you will just be pulling crap around (and ruining their little sealing abilities) the little o-ring joints that are designed to keep things in, not out.

If you want to help these poor smucks that are just trying to get cold, give some good real-world advice like DONT MIX mineral oil with 134a synthetic oil or don't expect your r12 o-rings to live very long with 134a synthetic oil...

And Hybrid93Eg, I'm not from Oklahoma, I've just worked a bit on sub -100 degree (2-stage) blood-plasma freezers.

And 99blackcivicSi, I actually agree with you, take it to a pro... but if a person can't afford $50 for that 2 min filter change and $100 bucks to charge the system maybe they'd like a little real-world advice on how to just get by...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here is where I am confused. YES, you can use a vac pump to find leaks. I do it all the time. Is there a problem with this? No, not at all. If its not holding vac, then there is a leak somewhere. Plain and simple. You can also charge the system to a min of 50psi and use dye as well to find leaks. Sometimes both methods will work, other times, one will and the other won't. I don't see how your theroy of not vacuuming the system makes any sense. Especially the part where you claim it can damage the AC system by pulling debris in past the O-rings. If debris gets in past the O-rings then its obvious there isn't a good seal. If it can't hold 15in of mercury on the vac gauge, then what makes you think its going to hold the 200psi high side pressures? And of course you are "pulling crap around" with a vac.. Thats the whole point. To remove air and debris from the line. Are you certified to be working on mobile HVAC systems?

GimpyAccord

I first use the vac to see if she'll hold 15-18in on the vac guage.. if it wont then I go searching for the leak usually with dye. I have also had some leaks so severe that are hard to 'see' (pressure sendors and the like) immediatly revealed by the SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKING noise

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GimpyAccord &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I first use the vac to see if she'll hold 15-18in on the vac guage.. if it wont then I go searching for the leak usually with dye. I have also had some leaks so severe that are hard to 'see' (pressure sendors and the like) immediatly revealed by the SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKING noise </TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly. It pulls the Oring back which can help to spot leaks. Its not hurting anything as stated above. The rings should NOT allow leaks under vac, if they do, then there is a problem.

mathusala

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...I don't see how your theroy of not vacuuming the system makes any sense... Are you certified to be working on mobile HVAC systems? </TD></TR></TABLE>
it's just a matter of form fitting function and economics. The idea of claiming to need a $3-400 vacuum pump to fix a hi-temp refrigeration system is not real for a garage mechanic. It's very similar to some h-t people claiming that you need a $400 IR impact gun and a 6scfm compressor to remove axle nuts. And yes, i'm actually certified (class A tx) to work on any size refrigeration system.

And guys, any real refrigeration mechanic knows an 18" vacuum isn't doing **** but mildly colapsing rubber hoses so give it a break.

GimpyAccord

first of all, if you have limited funds but own or have access to a decent air compressor a venturi style vacuum (like 10 dollars at harbor freight tools) does nicely. secondly this isnt a matter of using a 5 ft long lead pipe or a 500 dollar impact on axel nuts, this is the difference between doing the job RIGHT and doing it HALFASS, and if you think not removing the moisture via evacuation isnt neccissary.... then you're just out of touch with reality IMO. A system which hasnt been evacuated is going to A.) not work efficently (if at all really), B.) residual moisture will KILL the dryer and/or the expansion valve.

Thats about as far as this thread can go I think.

Petah

iTrader: (1)

Wow! Thanks for all the reponse. I think i will install the system (except he drier) and have pros evacuate and charge the system up! Too complex for me to be playing around with. But let's hope the install is as straight forward as a motor swap! Thanks to all those that has responded!

GimpyAccord

oh and remember as you install/replace all those orings (dont cheap out.. replace EVERYONE from the junkyard stuff.. we're talkin about like 10 bucks here) make sure to lube them in PAG oil.. which is 2 bucks in the AC section of your favorite auto parts house. don't over torque stuff either, alumnum fittings dont like that *break*