? about a magazine article ( How to get b16 power out of a d16 for cheap)
05-23-2008, 06:29 AM
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? about a magazine article ( How to get b16 power out of a d16 for cheap)
a while a go I want to say about a year or 2 ago a magazine publication did an article on how to make b16 power out of a d16. My friend and I where talking about this and he was thinking about trying it. My ? is I cant seem to find my magazine with the article in it any more. I have so many magazine to look through, dose any one know the article I am talking about and what magazine brand wrote the article. I know the article talked about using mostly uesed parts I think it cost them like $145-$200 to get the job done, thanks for the help
05-23-2008, 10:06 AM
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Re: ? about a magazine article (95 honda8)
i remember seeing that article honestly i laughed at it.. i'm sure it can been done but i have never seen an NA d-series with $200 of mods run in the 14's
05-23-2008, 06:29 PM
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Re: ? about a magazine article (95 honda8)
well...considering that the best mod for a D series is to chuck it for a B series, I would just do that. You could buy a B16 and make B16 power...with a B16.
You'd have to have more than a few hook ups to make reliable 160hp out of a NA D series.
You'd have to have more than a few hook ups to make reliable 160hp out of a NA D series.
05-23-2008, 09:06 PM
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Re: ? about a magazine article (B serious)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well...considering that the best mod for a D series is to chuck it for a B series, I would just do that. You could buy a B16 and make B16 power...with a B16. </TD></TR></TABLE>
.
.
05-24-2008, 12:11 AM
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its gotta be force induction im sure!.. a truly n/a d-series will not make much even with bolt onS.. force induction and fine tuning then i might say yEss!!... until then, i don't know!??!?!
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05-24-2008, 05:29 AM
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It was in a honda tuning magazine sometime last year. They did pm7 pistons, and got hooked up with a bunch of free **** from bdl. Yea, and with all those mods, it made as much power as a bone stock b16 with no mods, even stock exhaust. D-series is what it is, and unless you have some money, or throw some boost at it, they are rather useless.
05-24-2008, 05:38 AM
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Re: (singleslammer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by singleslammer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ...D-series is what it is, and unless you have some money, or throw some boost at it, they are rather useless.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i will gladly accept any useless D-series parts you have wasting space in your garage.... they work fine for me.
i will gladly accept any useless D-series parts you have wasting space in your garage.... they work fine for me.
05-24-2008, 10:00 AM
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Re: (hondamark35)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondamark35 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i will gladly accept any useless D-series parts you have wasting space in your garage.... they work fine for me.</TD></TR></TABLE>'
so true. So unfortunate my D-series walks every b16 I have come across.
i will gladly accept any useless D-series parts you have wasting space in your garage.... they work fine for me.</TD></TR></TABLE>'
so true. So unfortunate my D-series walks every b16 I have come across.
05-24-2008, 11:45 AM
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Re: (sku3397)
People who make ignorant comments like "a D can't make as much power as a B16 reliably" obviously have no experience with a D and they appear to be justifying their swap. To lash out at people like that you probably are disappointed in your B swap. I've driven B16 swaps and they're nice but not as nice as I expected. I expected it to at least equal a stock GSR. I rode along in a 93 GSR and that was pretty impressive for a stock car.
How much does a B16 put to the wheels? I'm making 119 to the wheels with my D and I haven't even tried to make power. I wouldn't mind having a B18C1, but I'm not willing to spend the money and I would rather have the fuel economy of the D. Not to mention easier maintenance and more space in the engine compartment. When I get the money I'll put a GSR motor in my DA.
A stock-internal low mileage D series is good for 200 reliable whp. Most of us who don't have our heads in our asses aspire to less than that. If you want to make stock B power from a D, try some high compression pistons and an aftermarket cam.
How much does a B16 put to the wheels? I'm making 119 to the wheels with my D and I haven't even tried to make power. I wouldn't mind having a B18C1, but I'm not willing to spend the money and I would rather have the fuel economy of the D. Not to mention easier maintenance and more space in the engine compartment. When I get the money I'll put a GSR motor in my DA.
A stock-internal low mileage D series is good for 200 reliable whp. Most of us who don't have our heads in our asses aspire to less than that. If you want to make stock B power from a D, try some high compression pistons and an aftermarket cam.
05-24-2008, 12:22 PM
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Re: (suspendedHatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People who make ignorant comments like "a D can't make as much power as a B16 reliably" obviously have no experience with a D and they appear to be justifying their swap. To lash out at people like that you probably are disappointed in your B swap. I've driven B16 swaps and they're nice but not as nice as I expected. I expected it to at least equal a stock GSR. I rode along in a 93 GSR and that was pretty impressive for a stock car.
How much does a B16 put to the wheels? I'm making 119 to the wheels with my D and I haven't even tried to make power. I wouldn't mind having a B18C1, but I'm not willing to spend the money and I would rather have the fuel economy of the D. Not to mention easier maintenance and more space in the engine compartment. When I get the money I'll put a GSR motor in my DA.
A stock-internal low mileage D series is good for 200 reliable whp. Most of us who don't have our heads in our asses aspire to less than that. If you want to make stock B power from a D, try some high compression pistons and an aftermarket cam.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can check out more at D-series.org. And defendants of the B16, your power curves sicken me. That is all
How much does a B16 put to the wheels? I'm making 119 to the wheels with my D and I haven't even tried to make power. I wouldn't mind having a B18C1, but I'm not willing to spend the money and I would rather have the fuel economy of the D. Not to mention easier maintenance and more space in the engine compartment. When I get the money I'll put a GSR motor in my DA.
A stock-internal low mileage D series is good for 200 reliable whp. Most of us who don't have our heads in our asses aspire to less than that. If you want to make stock B power from a D, try some high compression pistons and an aftermarket cam.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can check out more at D-series.org. And defendants of the B16, your power curves sicken me. That is all
05-24-2008, 01:04 PM
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The B16A2/3 is a pretty low target to aim for. My buddy's ED7 (89 Si) with a semi-built D16A6 was just as fast as, and maybe faster, than my EM1 (2000 Si) with stock B16A2. Of course there is a few hundred pound difference but...
IMO the biggest difference between D and B series is the transmission. No matter how much power you're putting down with the D, I'd still take a stock B-series tranny any day of the week. By the way, there is a z6 in my daily driver and I still love it. Makes a decent amount of power and gets way better mileage than my B18C1 did.
IMO the biggest difference between D and B series is the transmission. No matter how much power you're putting down with the D, I'd still take a stock B-series tranny any day of the week. By the way, there is a z6 in my daily driver and I still love it. Makes a decent amount of power and gets way better mileage than my B18C1 did.
05-24-2008, 01:09 PM
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Re: (hushypushy)
my d is better than your b hehe, i had a buddy with a d16z6 with p29s crowler cam springs valves and retainers that walked gsr hatches and ****, car ran 13.4 i believe on street tires and spinning, and everyone **** a brick when u popped his hood and said "yea, its a d". lol
05-24-2008, 01:14 PM
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Re: (hushypushy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hushypushy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The B16A2/3 is a pretty low target to aim for. My buddy's ED7 (89 Si) with a semi-built D16A6 was just as fast as, and maybe faster, than my EM1 (2000 Si) with stock B16A2. Of course there is a few hundred pound difference but...
IMO the biggest difference between D and B series is the transmission. No matter how much power you're putting down with the D, I'd still take a stock B-series tranny any day of the week. By the way, there is a z6 in my daily driver and I still love it. Makes a decent amount of power and gets way better mileage than my B18C1 did.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That all changes when lsd, "bense" gear ratio's and a 11.8lb flywheen come into play.
IMO the biggest difference between D and B series is the transmission. No matter how much power you're putting down with the D, I'd still take a stock B-series tranny any day of the week. By the way, there is a z6 in my daily driver and I still love it. Makes a decent amount of power and gets way better mileage than my B18C1 did.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That all changes when lsd, "bense" gear ratio's and a 11.8lb flywheen come into play.
05-24-2008, 04:09 PM
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Re: (hushypushy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hushypushy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The B16A2/3 is a pretty low target to aim for. My buddy's ED7 (89 Si) with a semi-built D16A6 was just as fast as, and maybe faster, than my EM1 (2000 Si) with stock B16A2. Of course there is a few hundred pound difference but...
IMO the biggest difference between D and B series is the transmission. No matter how much power you're putting down with the D, I'd still take a stock B-series tranny any day of the week. By the way, there is a z6 in my daily driver and I still love it. Makes a decent amount of power and gets way better mileage than my B18C1 did.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That has nothing to do with the thread. He wanted to make B16A power out of a D16. 160-170 hp NA out of a D series is not going to happen for $1k (without nitrous). The only reason it happened for the magazine is because of all the hookups they got. For a normal person, it would cost much more. No point. Like you said, the transmissions for the D series are not as nice as the B16 trans. So the car will still be slower. Not to mention it will be much less streetable and driveable. It might make the same power, but it wont be as fast as a stock B16A in the same car.
A modded ED7 that weighs 2000lbs is obviously going to beat a 160hp slow as hell EM1. I have an EM1. It's slow as hell.
The B16 trans or the ITR trans are the only ones that have advantages over the "sporty" D series transmissions. The Z6 trans is geared a lot like a GSR, IIRC. More like an LS when the gears get higher.
IMO the biggest difference between D and B series is the transmission. No matter how much power you're putting down with the D, I'd still take a stock B-series tranny any day of the week. By the way, there is a z6 in my daily driver and I still love it. Makes a decent amount of power and gets way better mileage than my B18C1 did.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That has nothing to do with the thread. He wanted to make B16A power out of a D16. 160-170 hp NA out of a D series is not going to happen for $1k (without nitrous). The only reason it happened for the magazine is because of all the hookups they got. For a normal person, it would cost much more. No point. Like you said, the transmissions for the D series are not as nice as the B16 trans. So the car will still be slower. Not to mention it will be much less streetable and driveable. It might make the same power, but it wont be as fast as a stock B16A in the same car.
A modded ED7 that weighs 2000lbs is obviously going to beat a 160hp slow as hell EM1. I have an EM1. It's slow as hell.
The B16 trans or the ITR trans are the only ones that have advantages over the "sporty" D series transmissions. The Z6 trans is geared a lot like a GSR, IIRC. More like an LS when the gears get higher.
05-24-2008, 05:12 PM
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Re: (bigsyke)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bigsyke »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">'
so true. So unfortunate my D-series walks every b16 I have come across. </TD></TR></TABLE>
it's obvious the other driver isn't trying.
so true. So unfortunate my D-series walks every b16 I have come across. </TD></TR></TABLE>
it's obvious the other driver isn't trying.
05-24-2008, 05:27 PM
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Re: (artudeetoo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by artudeetoo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I drive both a B series civic and a D series civic and I must say im more impressed with the D series than the B, but, but...the B is faster...</TD></TR></TABLE>
So do I and I don't get what you are saying.
So do I and I don't get what you are saying.
05-24-2008, 06:35 PM
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Re: (mcvtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bigsyke »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">'
so true. So unfortunate my D-series walks every b16 I have come across. </TD></TR></TABLE>
BWAHAHA unless your boosted i doubt it
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sk8shorty012 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it's obvious the other driver isn't trying. </TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed
[QUOTE=suspendedHatch]
How much does a B16 put to the wheels? I'm making 119 to the wheels with my D and I haven't even tried to make power.
QUOTE]
those are good numbers i'd like to see the dyno and mod list
i've seen a stock b16a2 with intake and exhaust put 132 to the wheels
so true. So unfortunate my D-series walks every b16 I have come across. </TD></TR></TABLE>
BWAHAHA unless your boosted i doubt it
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sk8shorty012 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it's obvious the other driver isn't trying. </TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed
[QUOTE=suspendedHatch]
How much does a B16 put to the wheels? I'm making 119 to the wheels with my D and I haven't even tried to make power.
QUOTE]
those are good numbers i'd like to see the dyno and mod list
i've seen a stock b16a2 with intake and exhaust put 132 to the wheels
05-24-2008, 09:12 PM
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Re: (B serious)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B serious »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That has nothing to do with the thread. He wanted to make B16A power out of a D16. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ok, I apologize for going slightly off topic for a minute there. What I meant to say was, regardless of power, the B series transmission is better. And I don't mean gear ratios.
Ok, I apologize for going slightly off topic for a minute there. What I meant to say was, regardless of power, the B series transmission is better. And I don't mean gear ratios.
05-24-2008, 10:09 PM
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Re: (hushypushy)
160 - 170 hp under $1k is doable, and has been done many many times over. for those who dont know, id like to introduce you to http://www.homemadeturbo.com.
you can find plenty of turbos kits for d's under 1k. if your willing to spend more then there are lots of examples of boosted d's with rods and pistons (vitara / eagle) that make upwards of 300 hp. i would not be so quick to say the d-series is garbage and needs thousands of dollars to make any significant horsepower gains.
yes, if you want to make 4-500 hp then go with the b, but if you want a streetable, cheap, fun car the d series is definately an option.
and
to bense gearing, he was def my idle growing up in h-t
you can find plenty of turbos kits for d's under 1k. if your willing to spend more then there are lots of examples of boosted d's with rods and pistons (vitara / eagle) that make upwards of 300 hp. i would not be so quick to say the d-series is garbage and needs thousands of dollars to make any significant horsepower gains.
yes, if you want to make 4-500 hp then go with the b, but if you want a streetable, cheap, fun car the d series is definately an option.
and
to bense gearing, he was def my idle growing up in h-t
05-25-2008, 12:27 AM
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Re: (egcivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by egcivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">160 - 170 hp under $1k is doable, and has been done many many times over. for those who dont know, id like to introduce you to http://www.homemadeturbo.com.
you can find plenty of turbos kits for d's under 1k. if your willing to spend more then there are lots of examples of boosted d's with rods and pistons (vitara / eagle) that make upwards of 300 hp. i would not be so quick to say the d-series is garbage and needs thousands of dollars to make any significant horsepower gains.
yes, if you want to make 4-500 hp then go with the b, but if you want a streetable, cheap, fun car the d series is definately an option.
and to bense gearing, he was def my idle growing up in h-t</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think they were talking about NA. Obviously, making 160hp is easy as hell with a turbo. You can get some junkyard turbo and make 35 more hp...that's ridiculously easy.
you can find plenty of turbos kits for d's under 1k. if your willing to spend more then there are lots of examples of boosted d's with rods and pistons (vitara / eagle) that make upwards of 300 hp. i would not be so quick to say the d-series is garbage and needs thousands of dollars to make any significant horsepower gains.
yes, if you want to make 4-500 hp then go with the b, but if you want a streetable, cheap, fun car the d series is definately an option.
and
to bense gearing, he was def my idle growing up in h-t</TD></TR></TABLE>I think they were talking about NA. Obviously, making 160hp is easy as hell with a turbo. You can get some junkyard turbo and make 35 more hp...that's ridiculously easy.
05-25-2008, 08:19 AM
#25
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Re: (2wheelhunter)
You requested my dyno graph and mods list so here it is:
This is on 87 Octane and a crappy winter mix. I had some shitty spark plugs in there and I was getting an occasional misfire, so we didn't advance the timing any more to see if it would make more power. I didn't care that much I just wanted to get the heavy load portion of the calibration dyno tuned so I could tune the rest on my own. The priority here is MPG, and currently I'm averaging 38 mpg. This is an OBD2 JDM D15B (D15Z7 equivalent) BTW.
Relevant mods are as follows:
ebay CAI (sucks ***, hence the large dip in my power band before VTEC)
AEM dryflow filter
DC 421 header
bad cat converter
crappy custom 2.25 exhaust
Magnaflow muffler
JDM D15B LSD Transmission
OE replacement Clutch
11lb flywheel
AEM EMS
I know what you're saying. AEM EMS costs a fortune. You can get a used EMS for $800. One hour on the dyno costs $100. I've had mine since 2001. It's good for about 9hp across the entire power band on my relatively stock motor.
To bring this back on topic; I could sell the EMS, get some pistons and a cam, and easily make more than stock B16 power RELIABLY, W/OUT BOOST, AND AT NO GREAT EXPENSE. If you don't believe me after seeing the dyno graph then you can paypal me at my email address and I'll prove it.
The B16 makes what, 130-140 wheel hp? You think a stock bottom D series can't handle that reliably?!? A B series on paper is just a D with higher compression and VTEC added to the exhaust lobes. In other words, D-series VTEC + pistons + cam >= stock B16 power.
The B16 is a great motor and it has tons more potential than any D. However; the D is the best platform for most of us because most of us will never exceed 200 whp. Most of us will never have more than I/H/E.
Modified by suspendedHatch at 10:26 AM 5/25/2008
This is on 87 Octane and a crappy winter mix. I had some shitty spark plugs in there and I was getting an occasional misfire, so we didn't advance the timing any more to see if it would make more power. I didn't care that much I just wanted to get the heavy load portion of the calibration dyno tuned so I could tune the rest on my own. The priority here is MPG, and currently I'm averaging 38 mpg. This is an OBD2 JDM D15B (D15Z7 equivalent) BTW.
Relevant mods are as follows:
ebay CAI (sucks ***, hence the large dip in my power band before VTEC)
AEM dryflow filter
DC 421 header
bad cat converter
crappy custom 2.25 exhaust
Magnaflow muffler
JDM D15B LSD Transmission
OE replacement Clutch
11lb flywheel
AEM EMS
I know what you're saying. AEM EMS costs a fortune. You can get a used EMS for $800. One hour on the dyno costs $100. I've had mine since 2001. It's good for about 9hp across the entire power band on my relatively stock motor.
To bring this back on topic; I could sell the EMS, get some pistons and a cam, and easily make more than stock B16 power RELIABLY, W/OUT BOOST, AND AT NO GREAT EXPENSE. If you don't believe me after seeing the dyno graph then you can paypal me at my email address and I'll prove it.
The B16 makes what, 130-140 wheel hp? You think a stock bottom D series can't handle that reliably?!? A B series on paper is just a D with higher compression and VTEC added to the exhaust lobes. In other words, D-series VTEC + pistons + cam >= stock B16 power.
The B16 is a great motor and it has tons more potential than any D. However; the D is the best platform for most of us because most of us will never exceed 200 whp. Most of us will never have more than I/H/E.
Modified by suspendedHatch at 10:26 AM 5/25/2008