neverstop

hey guys,

new to the board and relatively new to hondas but not new fast cars. My daily is a 100 shot ls1 camaro and I've been racing/building shifter karts and vintage porsches for a long time.

since I'm new to hondas was hoping you guys could give me some tips and input.

goal: build a bad *** prius out of a vtec swapped eg. 14.00 quarter mile and ability of >40mpg with the right driving and RELIABLE is the goal.

going to look at a 1994 civic dx hatch with a ls vtec motor in it. It used to put down 196whp with some aggressive blox cams and all bolt ons (hytech header, etc) but it has stock gsr cams in it now. so guessing 175whp maybe?


questions:

1. how reliable is this motor? the guy who built it seems to really knows his honda Sh*t but he did the bottom end himself. He says it's stock rods and crank with gsr oil pump and b16 pistons built 4k miles ago (but I'm sure some hard driving). Top end is built but with gsr cams in it now, (which I plan to keep.)

2. is 14.00 possible with this setup on nt555r tires? has stock integra ls tranny too (which I plan to keep but add lsd)

3. any thing in particular I should look out for both in ls vtec motor and eg civic chassis? common weak points to check? (every car has some)

4. can a ls vtec without block guard or sleeves RELIABLY take a 50 shot of nitrous if it's done smart/right?


any input is SUPER appreciated guys, thanks!

andrewk

the nitrous issue will play a factor with your tune.

i wuold just check make sure no head gasket leaks, check all the plumbing for the vtec conversion. maybe bring a compression tester with you as they're pretty easy to carry around.

maybe pull the plugs and read them if the owner is willing.

what is he using for tuning/fuel management?

weight wil play a factor with the 14's but with the 50 shot and some lightening you could get to low 14's if not high 13's. also driver mod too lol

you shuold be okay on the stock sleeves unless you're wanting to rebuild the bottom end with beefier counter parts and have the block sleeved.
i'd prefer sleeving over a block guard. but for this scenario with onyl 14's in mind pretty easily attainable goal on stock sleeves even if you turbocharge you could hit 12's-13's and still have the fuel economy

edit: was ARP hardware used for rod bolts? head studs? ls rod bolts have been known to stretch after 7500-8000 rpm with stock bolts.

neverstop

thanks man!

I plan to run a wet shot of nitrous but have it tuned by a pro and tuned conservatively.

was hoping for less than 14.00 in the 1/4 mile naturally aspirated, maybe this is aggressive? My buddy said with his 180whp b18c1 eg he did 13.7 on bfg drag radials but maybe he is fully of it....I would think a ls vtec would be faster due to more torque and same hp?

hoping for low 13's on a 50 shot but I'm not trying to get too crazy, I already have some race cars, just want something fun and efficient, don't want to go the turbo route, done that on other cars and it gets much less reliable and more complicated. spraying it once in a blue moon to kick subaru and mustang *** is good enough for me....lol

car is pretty light but is certainly not gutted and I don't plan to do that. I plan to do some weight reduction

not sure on engine management, GOOD question, thanks, I'll ask about ARP stuff too, pretty sure he used that but worth asking


you think $4k is good price for this car? car is somewhat clean, probably 7 on a 10 scale. has very fresh paint job.

neverstop

also, what do you think is the largest shot I could SAFELY run on a b18 ls vtec if it's tuned and done right?

itsnotfast

One thing to watch out for with the LS-V, many people put the VTEC head on a LS bottom end and think they can turn the 8500-9000r's that the VTEC motors are capable of. I think the LS motor has a redline of like 7200rpms. Over-taching is the end of alot of LS-V motors. Just some food for thought.

neverstop

thanks for the input,

yeah..... that is a concern of mine, if he was running some stage 3 or whatver bloxC cams then he was likely turning some pretty good rpm.

any way to see if the bottom end is ok without taking it apart? aka if it runs ok and sounds ok likely ok right?

fyi, with the stock gsr cams I don't expect to every really rev it over 7800-8000rpm max.

itsnotfast

Not to sure how or if tou could check the bottom end. Luckially LS motors are cheap enough if you have problems.

neverstop

yeah, good point, but this will be my only car so I'm really trying to focus on the reliable part of things. I guess if there is something wrong with the bottom end it would probably be pretty obvious....like rod through the block or piston slap....lol....

andrewk

ask him what he used for rod bolts.
then i would go through the car if you do pick it up and check every nut and bolt. pull the pan and put in arp hardware if he didn't use it.

itsnotfast

x2

neverstop

given that the guy is an old school honda guy and has built a few of them I'm 90% certain he wouldn't do something like put this together without ARP bolts but I guess you never know. I'll certainly be asking him that and asking for receipts and checking though. If he didn't use ARP bolts that would suck, stupid.

thanks for bringing that up though, I totally forgot about that rod bolt issue on ls vtec motors. another good point.

neverstop

you guys are freakin awesome, love this site btw.

anything in particular I should be looking out for on the chassis? what are some common eg hatch issues?

neverstop

here are some pics too in case you're interested. if i don't get this car it will likely be another one too, I'll just keep looking till the right one comes along.

Fine silver birch exterior - painted inside out.. trunk and engine bay
Black interior
Autometer A/F Gauge
JDM Sir wing
JDM All around windows ( Bronze tint )
JDM Armrest
JDM Cluster
JDM Clock
JDM Fenders
JDM Taillights
JDM Foglights
JDM Amber Corners
CF Mirrors
EK Sideskirts
16" Rota Circuit 8s wrapped in Toyo proxes 4 205/40/16
Momo Monte Carlo Steering wheel attached to a Momo hub
Shell is bar'd for a b18b1
2.5" Magna flow exhaust
hytech replica header
Motor: fully built LS-VTEC less than 5k miles ago
b18b1 w/ b16 head
put down 196whp with blox C cams but has stock gsr cams now

itsnotfast

It looks nice. The GSR swapped hatch would probably be more reliable unless this guy took his time and did the LSV right.

neverstop

that's what I'm thinking too but this one really has all the little stuff I want anyway that adds up (hytech header, good clutch, cam gears, etc) and is a little more clean and the car being BAR'd is hugggge to me since I just don't want to deal with cops at all anymore. did that with a loud and very illegal mustang 5.0 before and I'm over it plus I work 100+ hours a week and don't have time to do the BAR thing. Plus the guy with the ls vtec seems to really know his stuff and the other guy with the gsr motor doesn't know anything and barely speaks english....hahaha... we'll see though! I'm super excited.

drove a b18c1 swapped hatch the other day for the first time and it was AWESOME. of course my ls1 camaro is WAYYY faster but the hatch was just way more fun to drive and actually fealt quite a bit faster than I expected too

neverstop

so he says the ls vtec has ARP rod and head bolts but no block girdle. running a gsr oil pump. going to check it out probably on saturday!

neverstop

here are photos of the other car I'm thinking of getting

it is BAR'd and has a gsr b18c1 swap and brand new tranny and paint. PLUS it has working AC!!! but it is not as built to doesn't have much mods other than cheap coilovers, gsr rear brakes, aem intake, dc header and s2 intake manifold. Plus it needs a new heater core and has a small leak in the windshield. It is $1k cheaper than the other car though and is immaculate

ys1civicsi

I don't want to stir up the measures, but you do know you are posting these other individuals cars with their license plates in tact? Do them a favor and blur the plates so you actually have a car to buy before it is stolen.

neverstop

**** man, good point, these pics were posted on craigslist but still, I'll take those down. thanks.

fungus mungus

You'll probably be happy you're going with the GSR...the LS/VTEC isn't legal to smog here. You'll either luck out and they won't notice the different head or you'll be having to pay for an illegal smog.

AC is good to have in an EG...otherwise you're windows will be steamed up for the first 45 minutes of driving.

fm

neverstop

yeah, if i get the ls vtec I'll definately have to get a non vtec valve cover or something to try to sneak it by since the shell is only BAR'd for the ls motor

fungus mungus

One other thing...if the LS/VTEC motor you're considering had a Blox C cam in it, did it have upgraded valve springs/guides? If not, the valves may be mushroomed. Just some food for thought.

fm

killahatch

i would highly recommend changing out the transmission to a b16 or a gsr. the gsr is perfect for daily driving and it has like 2 or 3 shorter gears than the ls. b16 wouldnt be as great for daily but would definitely help in your 1/4 mile goal due to the shorter gears. just something to think about. and you can always add lsd to those trannies as well. or if money isnt a concern a integra type r or civic type r tranny would b something to think of. stock lsd and 4.75 final drive(i think thats it)

neverstop

had upgraded valve springs for sure but not sure about guides. motor only has like 3k miles on it though. another good point though fungus. thanks man.


you're totally right on the tranny too, i was thinking I'll most likely get an itr tranny with the lsd and put an ls fifth gear in it since I drive alot on the freeway and like to haul *** (my camaro does 1500rpm at like 75mph). I'd rather have the gsr or itr tranny though due to the tougher synchros than the b16 tranny.
I want to take it to the track and see how it does with the ls tranny first though. I bet a lower final drive would help on mpg around town too. thanks though, good food for thought.

car to guess how much a itr tranny would get me in the quarter mile vs an ls tranny in a 170-180whp ls vtec eh hatch? I"m guessing 2 tenths on street tires?

neverstop

hey fungus,

does your eg have a b18 in it? if so what times you put down with it at the track?