99 civic rear lower control arm
11-08-2014, 05:31 PM
#1
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99 civic rear lower control arm
i had been hearing creaking from my rear suspension when turning left and going over bumps. I "think" the problem might be the bushing on the lower control arm where the shock/strut (whichever) attaches. I sprayed it with PB and most (not all) of the creaking went away. I'm thinking about just replacing the lower control arm because they are fairly cheap and i don't have a press. can someone advise steps for replacing the lower rear control arm? thanks, ashton
11-08-2014, 06:15 PM
#2
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
It's really quite simple.
Jack the car up, remove the wheel. Remove the 3 bolts holding the arm on (end link if you have a sway bar) 1 bolt on trailing arm, 1 shock, 1 to the subframe.
Put the new arm in. If they have rubber bushings preload the suspension prior to torquing the bolts. --- jack the trailing arm up until it lifts off the jack stand.
Also it's not a bad idea to put some anti seize on the bolts before you reinstall.
Jack the car up, remove the wheel. Remove the 3 bolts holding the arm on (end link if you have a sway bar) 1 bolt on trailing arm, 1 shock, 1 to the subframe.
Put the new arm in. If they have rubber bushings preload the suspension prior to torquing the bolts. --- jack the trailing arm up until it lifts off the jack stand.
Also it's not a bad idea to put some anti seize on the bolts before you reinstall.
11-08-2014, 06:48 PM
#3
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
For anti sieze, you can use CV joint grease or silicone grease, they are formulated to not damage the rubber. Using petroleum based greases will cause the bushing to swell and lose their function and form.
11-09-2014, 07:27 AM
#6
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
The diagram below from the Helm's service manual (best) is for 99 non-Si models, as you did not specify.
Vehicle should be on the ground before any bolts or nuts connected to rubber mounts or bushings are tightened.
11-09-2014, 07:47 AM
#7
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
If you don't have room to get to the bolts with the car on the ground, then the trick people do is to jack up lower control arm until the car just lifts off the jack stand. Then you tighten all three bolts of the lower control arm to torques specs.
The other trick if you don't like jacking up the lower control arm directly is once you get the bolts in but not tightened. Jack up the back end enough that you can put ramps under the tires. Lower the car onto the ramps and now you have space to work and the car is the equivalent to being on the ground. Torque all the bolts and your are done.
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11-09-2014, 08:35 AM
#9
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
If you don't have room to get to the bolts with the car on the ground, then the trick people do is to jack up lower control arm until the car just lifts off the jack stand. Then you tighten all three bolts of the lower control arm to torques specs.
The other trick if you don't like jacking up the lower control arm directly is once you get the bolts in but not tightened. Jack up the back end enough that you can put ramps under the tires. Lower the car onto the ramps and now you have space to work and the car is the equivalent to being on the ground. Torque all the bolts and your are done.
The other trick if you don't like jacking up the lower control arm directly is once you get the bolts in but not tightened. Jack up the back end enough that you can put ramps under the tires. Lower the car onto the ramps and now you have space to work and the car is the equivalent to being on the ground. Torque all the bolts and your are done.
However, I'm not sure that the weight load difference matters in the end or that all nuts/bolts are accessible for tightening with the car flat on the ground.
11-09-2014, 09:53 AM
#10
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
Yeah, it's probably not as precise as if you can do all 4 wheels at the same time.
Ideally, you would have 4 ramps. Or two ramps on the front and jack stands on the back making the car level. So that the lift keeps the angle to 1-3 degrees at most.
I don't know off hand the formula to calculate the percentage of the weight shift based on angle. It's been way to long since I've done any serious mathematics.
I tend to think that the 20-30 degree angle doesn't make that significant of a variance on the preload as many people have done this technique in the driveways without any catastrophic results.
It might be interesting to calculate the percentage variance the angle makes. With that information, you could compensate with some bags of cement in the trunk....
Ideally, you would have 4 ramps. Or two ramps on the front and jack stands on the back making the car level. So that the lift keeps the angle to 1-3 degrees at most.
I don't know off hand the formula to calculate the percentage of the weight shift based on angle. It's been way to long since I've done any serious mathematics.
I tend to think that the 20-30 degree angle doesn't make that significant of a variance on the preload as many people have done this technique in the driveways without any catastrophic results.
It might be interesting to calculate the percentage variance the angle makes. With that information, you could compensate with some bags of cement in the trunk....
11-09-2014, 10:40 AM
#11
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
With the car on flat ground (0-degrees), the rear wheels by definition will bear full load weight (100%).
With the car vertical (90-degrees) with front down and all weight weight on the front wheels, the rear wheels will have no load (0%).
With the car raised 20-degrees in the rear, the rear load weight will be reduced by 20-degrees/90-degrees (~22%). In this case, if each rear wheel bears 500-lbs on flat ground, then they would bear only 390-lbs with the rear raised 20-degrees.
With the car raised 30-degrees in the rear, the rear load weight will be reduced by 30-degrees/90-degrees (~33%). In this case, if each rear wheel bears 500-lbs on flat ground, then they would bear only 333-lbs with the rear raised 30-degrees.
Last edited by Former User; 11-09-2014 at 12:22 PM.
11-09-2014, 03:01 PM
#12
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
Been looking all morning for 92-95 hatchback stock spring rates and it's left out of every resource I can find.
The closest I could find is 96-00 progressives front and back stock rate of 165/80. Which is about a 2:1 ratio.
The 92-95 hatch weighs in at about 3100 pounds (AT is 3200). So really, 2000 lbs up front and 1000 pounds in back via the stock spring ratio I would think.
That being said, your 500 lbs is pretty darn close as far as I can tell. So one would need to put approximately another 170 pounds per wheel if it's about a 30 degree angle they have the back lifted to be closer to stock loading of the rear wheel.
And for the fronts for a hatchback it looks to be double that being the weight up front seems to be double of the rear.
Ron, just for slapping numbers out there, you are amazing I must say.
The closest I could find is 96-00 progressives front and back stock rate of 165/80. Which is about a 2:1 ratio.
The 92-95 hatch weighs in at about 3100 pounds (AT is 3200). So really, 2000 lbs up front and 1000 pounds in back via the stock spring ratio I would think.
That being said, your 500 lbs is pretty darn close as far as I can tell. So one would need to put approximately another 170 pounds per wheel if it's about a 30 degree angle they have the back lifted to be closer to stock loading of the rear wheel.
And for the fronts for a hatchback it looks to be double that being the weight up front seems to be double of the rear.
Ron, just for slapping numbers out there, you are amazing I must say.
11-09-2014, 03:10 PM
#13
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
Ron, just for slapping numbers out there, you are amazing I must say.
11-09-2014, 04:35 PM
#15
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
I made an error. The source I pulled the weight from for the 92-95 hatch was quoting gross weight and not curb weight.
Here is the curb weight of the 96-00:
Then 92-95 is:
So using the 99 DX Hatch manual we'll say 2400 pounds curb weight with a 2:1 spring ratio so should in theory be the 2:1 weight ratio from front to back.
So that would be 800 pounds on the rear and 1600 on the front. So 400 pounds per rear wheel at a 30 degree angle would be 33% reduction which is 132 lbs. short of the full 400 lbs the wheel should be bearing.
Hope this helps and sorry for not catching that I was quoting the gross weight. With the tables above and Ron's formula you should be able to calculate a pretty fair estimate of the extra weight you will need to compensate the non level vehicle.
Here is the curb weight of the 96-00:
Code:
CX Hatch DX Hatch DX Coupe HX Coupe EX Coupe
Auto Manual Auto Manual Auto Manual Auto Manual Auto Manual
1996 2297 2222 2317 2242 2339 2262 no data 2313 2513 2483
1997 2338 2304 2253 2319 2271 2337 2324 2399 2460 2496
1998 2357 2295 2392 2339 2385 2342 2429 2361 2551 2504
1999 2423 2359 2434 2388 2405 2335 2445 2370 2560 2513
2000 2423 2359 2434 2388 2405 2359 2445 2370 2560 2513
DX Sedan LX Sedan EX Sedan Si Coupe Value Package Sedan
Auto Manual Auto Manual Auto Manual Manual Auto
1996 2370 2319 2430 2387 2568 2518
1997 2319 2370 2387 2438 2568 2518
1998 2385 2339 2458 2412 2558 2511
1999 2388 2339 2456 2410 2562 2513 2612
2000 2388 2339 2456 2410 2562 2513 2612 2418
Code:
CX Hatch VX Hatch Si Hatch DX Hatch
Manual Manual Manual Auto Manual
1992–1993 2094 2094 2326 2275 2178
1994–1995 2108 2094 2390 2264 2178
DX Sedan LX Sedan EX Sedan DX Coupe EX Coupe
Auto Manual Auto Manual Auto Manual Auto Manual Auto Manual
1992–1993 2343 2275 2388 2319 2524 2480 2317 2224 2445 2390
1994–1995 2392 2313 2456 2403 2575 2522 2326 2231 2575 2520
So that would be 800 pounds on the rear and 1600 on the front. So 400 pounds per rear wheel at a 30 degree angle would be 33% reduction which is 132 lbs. short of the full 400 lbs the wheel should be bearing.
Hope this helps and sorry for not catching that I was quoting the gross weight. With the tables above and Ron's formula you should be able to calculate a pretty fair estimate of the extra weight you will need to compensate the non level vehicle.
11-10-2014, 03:26 AM
#17
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Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
You could try to make the 4 corners of the car the same level as if it was sitting on all 4 wheels.
3 are already with the wheels on.
the 4th one is raised or lowered by a jack under the LCA(bolts already inserted but still loose, wheel not yet fitted) until you get the car to be as level as possible.
Tighten the bolts, put the wheels on.Remove jack.
3 are already with the wheels on.
the 4th one is raised or lowered by a jack under the LCA(bolts already inserted but still loose, wheel not yet fitted) until you get the car to be as level as possible.
Tighten the bolts, put the wheels on.Remove jack.
11-10-2014, 05:37 AM
#18
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
I think the approximation math is probably straightforward.
With the car on flat ground (0-degrees), the rear wheels by definition will bear full load weight (100%).
With the car vertical (90-degrees) with front down and all weight weight on the front wheels, the rear wheels will have no load (0%).
With the car raised 20-degrees in the rear, the rear load weight will be reduced by 20-degrees/90-degrees (~22%). In this case, if each rear wheel bears 500-lbs on flat ground, then they would bear only 390-lbs with the rear raised 20-degrees.
With the car raised 30-degrees in the rear, the rear load weight will be reduced by 30-degrees/90-degrees (~33%). In this case, if each rear wheel bears 500-lbs on flat ground, then they would bear only 333-lbs with the rear raised 30-degrees.
With the car on flat ground (0-degrees), the rear wheels by definition will bear full load weight (100%).
With the car vertical (90-degrees) with front down and all weight weight on the front wheels, the rear wheels will have no load (0%).
With the car raised 20-degrees in the rear, the rear load weight will be reduced by 20-degrees/90-degrees (~22%). In this case, if each rear wheel bears 500-lbs on flat ground, then they would bear only 390-lbs with the rear raised 20-degrees.
With the car raised 30-degrees in the rear, the rear load weight will be reduced by 30-degrees/90-degrees (~33%). In this case, if each rear wheel bears 500-lbs on flat ground, then they would bear only 333-lbs with the rear raised 30-degrees.
11-10-2014, 05:46 AM
#19
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
In this case, if each rear wheel normally bears 400-lbs, then raising the rear end 24" would reduce the load to 342-lbs.
The change in the amount of weight at the wheel would not even affect the clocking of the bushing at that point.
11-10-2014, 08:52 AM
#20
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
I noticed when the bolt is tight it pinches the frame, strut or trailing arm against the bushing. The bushing only allows so much movement. And I believe this is why the preload is important. It determines the arms position where the bushing gets locked into place when the bolts get torqued down.
Overthinking the subject way too much. You would not be jacking the car up to a 30 degree angle. If you jacked the car up 24 inches you would still only be at a 13 degree angle. The change in the amount of weight at the wheel would not even affect the clocking of the bushing at that point.
11-10-2014, 08:53 AM
#21
Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
I believe clocking is meaning the position on a clock face the bushing is locked into place i.e. 3 o'clock vs. 4 o'clock position.
I noticed when the bolt is tight it pinches the frame, strut or trailing arm against the bushing. The bushing only allows so much movement. And I believe this is why the preload is important. It determines the arms position where the bushing gets locked into place when the bolts get torqued down.
I noticed when the bolt is tight it pinches the frame, strut or trailing arm against the bushing. The bushing only allows so much movement. And I believe this is why the preload is important. It determines the arms position where the bushing gets locked into place when the bolts get torqued down.
Is it really impossible to tighten/torque the rear suspension nuts/bolts with the car on the ground?
It's a little tricky for the front suspension nuts/bolts, but I've always been able to do it using proper length socket extensions.
11-10-2014, 10:57 AM
#24
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Re: 99 civic rear lower control arm
Should, I was able to install an integra rear swaybar at stock height, okay its actually oem integra type r springs on my civic but I was still able to get under the car.
