PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys/gals,

I have a 99 civic HX that I just converted to OBD1 using a Rywire jumper harness. FIrst, the HX model civic stayed OBD2A even through 99-00 years. I have the correct jumper harness. The ECU is a OBD1 P28 ECU with S300V2 installed. I had it on my integra prior to this and it worked fine. I installed the jumper harness and the ECU with the stock D15y5 and car ran fine with a P28 map on it.

No I swapped my stock motor out for a B series VTEC motor (poor man type r). I used the HX harness and the only wires I have modified at this point are the alternator plug to accept an OBD1/0 plug. I cut and soldered on the OBD1 plug and the Distributor plug. I used the SOHC distributor plug to match the engine harness as I had an OBD1 distributor.

The problem
When I first went to crank the engine, everything seemed to work fine. The engine started to rotate as it should but did not start. Then I tried again and it rotated the same way. Now I do not get a CEL when I turn power on, fuel does not prime, and Hondata does not link which I assume that the ECU is not getting power as well. My first thought is the main relay. I located that on the passenger side behind the glove box and tapped it a few times. Turn the power on and boom I get the check engine light and it primes fuel. Go to crank and it acts as if the battery is dead and nothing happens. I say acts like the battery dead in a sense that the starter clicked and it did not turn. I turn the key off and turn it back on and no CEL again. I swapped the fuel relay with my integra which works every time and the same problem. Now it won't do anything. I'm pretty stumped. I sanded down the ground at the thermostat housing and also the transmission. When I get a CEL and fuel primes the starter gets a signal and when I don't get the CEL and fuel prime nothing happens. I didn't mess with any wiring other than what needs to be removed to pull the engine out.

Rundown of setup

99 civic HX
OBD2a-OBD1 harness
P28 w/ S300v2
Stock wiring harness
OBD1 plug on stock wiring harness
OBD1 distributor with stock distributor plug on it

Does anyone have a flow diagram for a 6th gen civic with my symptoms?

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

So far I have checked some of the main fuses associated and they are not blown. I sanded down the ground connections as well in the engine bay as those are the only ones I detached to pull the motor.

I'm going to unplug the alternator wire to see if anything changes. It's just really strange that the motor was cranking the first time I tried and then it was hit or miss if the ECU was getting power. I'm going to look for some flow diagrams and pull out the multimeter and test the fuel relay and harness and then the ECU. Hopefully I can track down the problem.

tony_2018

Low battery voltage?

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Battery is in perfect shape. Everything else works on the car electrically. Just no power to ECU or fuel relay

chrysler kid

Starter uses amps not volts. Electronics functioning is not an indication of battery strength , try jump starting the car to see if results change

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

I'm 100% sure that the battery is fine b/c I cranked my integra without a problem but I will double check it.

tony_2018

It probably wasn't getting charged from the alternator and could die, also what you can do is manually start the car by turning the ignition to ON and applying power directly to the starter.

chrysler kid

Well it sounds like it is good then.

I couldn't tell in your post but the title says that the ecu is not getting power, is that still true?

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Wait wait guys. We are getting off the topic. The battery is fine. It was not on my car for 2 days while I did the swap and it was on a tender to keep it floating. Nothing was wrong with the car and I'm 100% sure this has to do with the installation of the engine and wiring. I'll do some testing tonight and update the thread. I'm looking for a flowchart for when the CEL does not come on at all.

tony_2018

Bro, read the 2nd part of my post. Tried that yet?

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

I have not checked it with a multimeter but it is not powering on b/c I can see Hondata is not active and it won't link to my laptop when it's doing this. The ECU works with main relay with the grounds. I'm thinking that the grounds are the problem. IF you need more information or a better explanation just and I will explain better. I hope this isn't confusing. Seems like a bad connection b/c everything was working when I first tried and then it barely would try. I could hear the relay clicking a few times even when nothing powered on if I left the key in the on position. It's pointing to a bad ground to me.

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

I do appreciate the help guys. I will update after I try some troubleshooting. I will update the thread.

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

I didn't get a chance to check much yet and I need to get a better multimeter battery. But, I did go outside and fiddle around a bit. I put the key in and the relay works and primes the fuel pump. I go to crank it and I just hear click of the starter wanting to engage. turn everything off and try again and the relay does not activate and no CEL. The relay did start buzzing and then all of a sudden it powered up and primed the fuel. Then I tried to start and it did the same thing as the first time. Then, again, I lost power to the relay and no CEL or fuel priming. No buzzing of the relay. I checked all my fuses with the multimeter before the batter died and I got bat voltage on everything. Seeing how it really was acting like a crapped out battery I tried to jump just to see and same deal. It's doing the same thing on two working relays so that is not the problem. I unplugged the alternator and distributor and tried the key again just to see if the fuel would prime and nothing. I cleaned the grounds off again and nothing. As stated, everything else works in the car electrically.

B series motor
Stock HX engine harness is being used
Working P28 ECU with S300v2
All grounds cleaned x2
all fuses checked x2

tony_2018

Did you manually apply power to the starter?

forbiddenera

I hate to say this but..and maybe I'm way off, but almost everytime I've seen this it's been this..

Check your battery terminals. Make sure they are tight as ****. Check the ground wire on the battwry, to starter. I know you said you checked fuses and grounds but also make sure they're tight, a loose connection will not conduct enough (creates more resistance) power and cause click click.

A multimeter is an essential tool, get a good one, you will thank yourself..

You can also try what Tony suggests, take a large gauge cable and apply power to the starter manually. This will instantly tell you if your starter is messed, if it goes, it's good and the problem is 99% a bad connection somewhere. Make sure the starter has power straight from the battery too, and triple check.

Is it a single click or multiple?

I'm an automotive electrician and I had a client with a no start (click) condition after doing some work (big 3 upgrade ) I had checked certain wires continuity to do my work but somehow mixed up the stock alternator wire and starter wire, stock alternator wire was embedded in harness so it wasn't removed, just disconnected, in fact the starter was disconnected even though I identified the alt wire via continuity test..once the starter had proper connection, went right away. Even experienced techs miss things some days.

chrysler kid

What starter are you using, the stock hx starter?

Former User

What specific grounds have you cleaned/tightened?

Focus on G1, G3, and G101.

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Forbiddeera : I took the grounds off, cleaned and tightened them. I will do it again just to see again. I will double check the battery terminals. I do have a multimeter but the battery died so I'll get a new battery today. The starter power feed is tight and getting 12v. I have not tried to jump the starter. Could a bad ground on the starter cause this? When the relay and ecu would power on and I go to start,i hear a single click from the starter and then everything goes dead. My CEL is barely light up for some reason when this happens. Srs light goes on for 5 seconds and goes off like it should. Everything electronic works in the car except the main relay and the ecu when this happens s.

Chryslerkid: I'm useing a b series starter bx I swapped a b series in. The hx starter is on the old motor still

RonJ: those are the 3 I have been messing with. Also made sure the valve cover ground was good.

chrysler kid

A bad ground would cause those issues you are describing, reccomend you clean the grounding connections with a little sand paper.

The starter needs 3 things, battery connected to solid ground, battery positive connection (to a battery with strong amperage), and the switched power feed from the ignition.

Jumping it would mean using a wire connected to the small connection on the starter directly to 12 volts. I wouldn't reccomend it myself, but you can do it. I would rather use a volt meter to the small blue ignition wire and verify that the connection is receiving a constant 12v when thr ignition is turned and held all the way in the starting position.

You could also take the starter out and have it tested at your local autopats store, oreilleys advanced, and autozone all test then for free. I would also bring in your battery to have them test that as well

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Ok I went outside real quick to jump the starter. WHen I jump the starter from the small wire connector to the +side of the battery it does the same thing as when I turn the key. I can only do it once. If I do it again the starter does nothing but my radiator fan comes on....Not sure what that means. I have to either put the key in the ignition to stop the fan or take the negative off the battery.

forbiddenera

your rad fan should only come on if the temperature sensor is hot, no? Odd

If it's not turning when you give it power directly (assuming you're doing it right) it could be the starter but as kid said, it needs those things..

1. A solid connection from battery to starter, check starter fuse properly.
2. That the battery's grounder is good and the starters ground has good continuity to it,
3. The switched feed from the ignition, which is what you jumped. Which says maybe #1 is the problem

tony_2018

So is it cranking but not running or not cranking at all?

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Did not crank. The start clicked and that was it.

I just went out side again to check a few things out. It's got to be a ground problem b/c I grounded pin 2 of the fuel relay and turned the key to on (I) and the check engine light came up with the oil lamp light. Still no power to the ECU. Wouldn't jumping pin 2 to direct ground power the ECU unless there is no ground to complete the circuit??? Should I try to jump the ECU ground to chassis to see if the ECU powers? It really seems like a ground problem but I don't know how it's not grounding when I have everything hooked up correctly. It's the same engine harness and everything. Just weird.

Former User

Post pics of the G1, G3, and G101 ground connections. Focus on the no-crank because once you fix it, the pump and ECU issues will also likely be solved. Show both ends of G1 and G3 in the pics.

PR8urVtec

iTrader: (1)

Ok I will follow what you are saying. At this point I'm lost. I'm going to get a better multimeter today bc the one I have doesn't have continuity testing on it. Not sure if the diode tester would be the same thing. I have a test light but read not to use those.

I also have the starter with me at work so I can bring it to be properly bench tested. I want to rule it out completely.

RonJ: here are pictures of the grounds. When I removed the engine I only detached the ends that are connected to the engine /transmission and at the battery.

The only picture I did not get was at 5he battery terminal. I will get that for you