Codielee2832

Hey guys got a dilemma. Here's some back story to help with diagnosis. I had a heater hose leak recently and the car overheated bad then. Got the heater hose fixed and when I was putting in coolant about 2 weeks and probably 1k miles (I drive alot) I put some washing flushed with hose then put in system cleaner and flushed it after I let the car run for 10 minutes.

now to now. About 2 days after I put new antifreeze in the car overheated and all the to the red before I noticed it. Reservoir was boiling. I thought maybe i didn't bleed it right put more water in and came home and lifted front of car up and jammed a waterhose down it's throat. Reved the car for a good 30 mins. No water loss but it kept boiling over like a bad head gasket letting exhaust gas into coolant. I went and got a pressure tester and a block tester can't use the block tester yet bc nowhere had fluid 2 of them couldn't even find the part number. But on the pressure test it won't hold 1.1 bar at all it will hit 0 in 5 seconfs. And I can hear bubbling right at the radiator cap, can't find no water on radiator only water I see is a small leak on a hose going to the block. It doesn't leak when running only the pressure tester could make it leak. No oil in coolant and no coolant in oil although the oil level does seem to be higher than it was when I filled it. Alot higher about 2 inches high on the dipstick.

Also theirs like blue slime on my radiator fins that I can see through radiator cap.

what is causing the pressure tester the boil at the radiator cap? (Edit:radiator cap wasnt getting good seal bc plastic was mangled maybe melted where rubber washer seats)And do you guys think gasket i would hate to do it and be wrong

mk378

Fix any and all leaks you find. You have to have a good seal at the top of the radiator cap for the coolant to move properly between the radiator and the reservoir and back. It is essential that the radiator stay completely full.

If someone put stop leak in it, the radiator may be clogged up.

Fill up as well as you can then let it cool off fully. Take the radiator cap off and start it cold and rev it. If bubbles or coolant blow out of the radiator, there is a leak in the gasket.

Codielee2832

Okay I will try that. I'm not thinking it's the cap bc even with the cap off the water shouldn't keep bubbling over 30 minutes later like it has soap in it (the laundry detergent is def all gone btw) no stop leak used im starting to think the sludge is gasket material. But I will try it. Also note my radiator fan works and kicks on sometimes but never when it's overheating.

Also the hose that is leaking is the upper radiator hose. Another thing if the car is cold it will make it about 20 miles before the coolant all boils off. If the cars warm and I pour in coolant it will only last about 10 miles. My temp gauge stays at 1/4 until the very end when it's all gone then shoots up.

Radiator cap looks good to me, no oil good seals etc..

The grey/ purple sludge around the cap opening is also in the radiator on the fins. Fins are clean in pic but i wiped it off of those

The bubbles get about 2 inches higher than this. This is with the engine hot and kept doing this the whole time. I thought maybe a big air pocket but no bc i reved the car for 15 mins and it still kept on. I can see circulation as well so think water pumps good and car has heat




Edit: I tried what you said. Engine cold first start of the day and topped it off. Went to front of car and reved it at throttle body so I could see in and only thing happened is water level rose with each rev and maybe one small bubble. So I don't think that test confirmed it.


Also my lower radiator hose is not getting hot. It did when I did the bleed and refill but hasn't been while drivinf. Upper radiator hose is steaming hot. Also lower radiator hose has a major kink in the bottom. Is that normal?

Codielee2832

I undid the heater hose and reved the engine and water came flying out. I can also see the water circulating in the radiator. So I don't think the water pumps bad. I'm doing a block test tomorrow if it doesn't come back positive I'm lost for answers. The thermostat is brand new. A tiny tiny leak in my upper radiator hose that doesn't even leak without a pressure tester on it doesn't seem logical to me as an explanation. I did pour the water in cold when it overheated so maybe I warped the head or cracked the block. Block test should tell me all that. The car has 166k miles on it


EDIT: did block test came back negative so no cracks in block or leak in gasket quite yet. I'm glad the constant overheating has done no damage but also upset bc I'm still lost.

so as of now I have water pump as a possibility. But
1. Water level rises with throttle
2. Can see circulation with radiator cap off
3. With heater hose off reving engine shoots water out

Thermostat as a possibility but put a new one in 2 days ago and tested before install

I'm now thinking maybe the radiator itself. Anyone have any thoughts on this or more diagnosis I can do before i start throwing parts at it.

Diagnostic process has shown a small leak in upper radiator hose but only under simulated pressure by a pressure tester does not leak with engine running. And it boils so quick I've pretty much crossed that out as a problem, still needs replacing and will be. I'm thinking maybe the radiator is clogged? Would that cause the lower radiator hose to not get hot?

I'm really hoping it's not the water pump and everything I've seen says it isn't but it sure is acting like it is as far as what's happening. Heat works water flows fine can see circulation etc..

TomCat39

You need a new radiator, that one the cap can't seal. Without a seal, the coolant boils faster/sooner. Thats why a bad radiator cap cause overheating. In your case, the cap might be okay but the seal surface of the radiator is not.

Also, straight water probably won't keep the car cool either. Neither will pure coolant. The optimum boil point under pressure is 50/50 water/coolant and is why it comes premixed 50/50.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

your headgasket is blown/head warped. multiple overheats + your symptoms= fucked.

Codielee2832

I'm starting to agree with the radiator. The head gasket reply is a nogo bc I block tested it and it's fine. Multiple overheats yes I got lucky. I'm going to upload a video later of water pump pressure for review. Also it boils with or without coolant at this point so just wasting money putting in coolant till I find the problem. With the radiator, I scraped the seal area flush and the pressure tester held pressure at the radiator but that's spring loaded radiator cap. Is there any way to test the radiator with the cap on for pressure? Or any common way to Jerry rig a radiator cap to seal to see if that's what it is? Just trying to cover all my bases before I put parts on it. It's a beater car. The lower radiator hose not getting hot ponders me. If airs getting in I have less system pressure but I don't think it would lose enough to stop the coolant from circulating through the thermostat. What I've come up with to do today is after work undo thermostat coupling and take thermostat out and see how much pressures there (unsure of flow direction on this car so idk if it even is supposed to come out that way) and to close the radiator off top hose and bottom from the engine put some clr in it and let it sit for a couple hours then flush. Whatever that blue or purple gunk is could have come through in my previous radiator flush which is when the problems started happening and clogged the radiator. Explaining why lower radiator hose is cold if it flows downward through radiator and not upwards. And also explaining why theirs boiling no circulation equals stagnant coolant equals heat and boiling.

I am going to test the radiator seal suggestion as well.

i have 3 questions.
1.if the water pumps bad can you still have heat and water rising in car as well as spewing with heater hose disconnected cold?
2. Could a heater core cause this?
3. The flow of the radiator. Is it upper hose to block to heater core back through thermostat and into radiator. Or is it radiator to thermostat to heater core to block back to radiator through upper hose?, which would be from bottom of radiator to top

TomCat39

1) Upper rad hose is mainly the head coolant flow (some pass through to the block through the head gasket)

2) Lower rad hose (through thermostat) is main block flow. Lower rad hose will not get hot for quite a long time. Purging the air from the system can be a 20+ minute process, of which 10-15 minutes is waiting for the bottom hose to get hot (thermostat to open). A bad thermostat can cause overheating!

3) Heater core isn't going to cause overheating, will only help reduce it if on max heat setting as it "adds" another radiator to the system.

4) As far as I know, bad water pump is bad because it leaks. For it to stop "spinning/pumping" it would have to seize and that would cause serious issues with the timing belt.

Codielee2832

Okay so based on what I read the water pump could be the issue. It has no leaks that I can see although it is covered I see no leaking out of cover. Any other way I can test water pump other than testing for pressure? It's making no squealing noises or anything. And as far as I can tell the only way im losing coolant is it boiling and steaming through the reservoir cap

TomCat39

Replace your radiator and radiator cap. Then see where you are at. Water and Coolant both boil faster without pressure. Your system can't pressurize due to the mangled filler neck. Caps are cheap so might as well start fresh with that too.

Codielee2832

Alright I'll go with that and order a radiator tonight. I already ordered a new upper radiator hose. If not then the next thing is a water pump right? I don't mind throwing a radiator at it. I don't wanna throw a water pump at It without a diagnosis but if theirs no way to diagnose besides replacing guess I have to. Only reason I say this is because I looked at a tutorial on the water pump and it seems a lot is involved. A lot of tools I don't have long extensions screwdrivers etc.. that I don't have so it will be a pretty expensive job as well for a beater car.

question: is it possible to remove the crank bolt without the special tool? I do have a kobalt 24v brushless impact and it takes axle nuts off easily (32mm) but I don't think it could zip the crank bolt off

TomCat39

I couldn't answer that question, I use a torque multiplier to get the crank bolt off. That's the most challenging part in my opinion and after that, the rest of the timing belt/water pump/tensioner job is a breeze.

tony_2018

Water is not coolant....especially water coming from a hose. Anybody wants to debate it I don't care but be prepared to pay for the members problems going forward unless you some ***** *** bitch who likes to troll others.

Codielee2832

I am using water because in tests the coolant at a 50 50 mix lasts about 2 minutes longer than straight water. And being this is my only source of transportation right now I just bring 2 big jugs of water w me and fill it before enough can boil off to make engine overheat (about every 10 miles). Had I been using coolant I would have boiled off about 100 bucks by now. I do agree water is not coolant and also know water (especially from a hose due to deposits) isn't the greatest for your cooling system. But atm it's the best thing until I can get it figured out. I haven't tried 70/30 coolant to water. It may stop it from boiling idk but it would just be covering a problem and would still get to hot even if it doesn't boil.

i ordered the radiator and also noticed my radiator isn't but warm after a 20 min drive or so. It's the top radiator hose that's getting extremely hot, heater hose is normal heat. Lower radiator hose rarely gets warm but someone said it can take 20 mins for thermostat to open and being that I stop every 10 minutes to slowly (bc I know quick changes in temp can warp a head crack a block etc.. I sorta drip the water in.) Fill it up that's prolly why the lower hose isn't getting hot. If a water pump was bad and it was located at the block as it is this would seem to be what's going on. I think it's the water pump pretty positive. Heat is radiating from the block and not going through everything else w a good thermostat.

This car just had a new waterpump put in 20k miles ago and theirs also been a pulley squeak since I bought the car but it's not the power steering pulley. Could it be related to a premature water pump failure? If so what pulley should be checked?

Thank you every one for your advice so far.

TomCat39

Replace your your thermostat too it's not expensive. If the lower rad hose is not hot after a drive, you definitely need to look into the thermostat too. 20 minutes is from cold, idling on a cool day, not loaded driving. I brought that your attention as you made it sound like it didn't get warm immediately when you were testing in your drive way, of which you never mentioned if it was from cold or immediately after a good drive.

What water pump was put in? Not all water pumps are equal and some are actually inferior, it all depends on impeller design. OEM style has metal fins. Crappy pumps have some sort of weird top like looking impeller.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

doing a block test is nearly impossible with contaminating water/antifreeze constantly spitting into the tester. your head is cooked.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

also, if you've ever had a water pump impeller fail, or fixed a car that has, you would know these symptoms do not match it at all, same with a radiator issue, especially AFTER a significant overheat.

Codielee2832

Block test was like any other car it's not the head. Block test is while warm. Let it run 10 minutes and block test it. It doesn't heat up and boil at idle or sitting I drieway. I did do 8t while it was hot I did 3 block tests . I also tested the steam through the reservoir and nothing. And no sir I've never done a water pump.

on the thermostat. I just put a new one in 3 days ago. After the issues occured. And tested the old one in boiling water and it worked fine.

Edit: on the block test I did these
1. Right after starting engine cold and racing engine while pumping bulb
2. With engine warm and sitting also reving engine
3. With engine boiling hot steam coming through almost melting the block tester (I understand this one is probably invalid but all the same didn't turn slightest tint of green on any of the tests)
And then the reservoir one.

With the block test comment it made me think. When I drive say 10 minutes and pull over to put more water in and pull the reservoir hose out to relieve pressure before popping the cap it's just that, air pressure. Once all the air is gone and sprayed out it quits boiling. So I'm getting air from somewhere and all my block tests show (to me I'm not discounting the prior comment) that it's not the head. I feel if it was reving the engine when warm would push exhaust gasses past the head/gasket and turn yellow. I've got plenty of block test fluid so when I get home I may record a video of my procedure and post to see what y'all think.

On the lower radiator hose, theirs been times since this started I drove I know 20 mins on a warm engine and it didn't get warm. The fluid pumps through the metal side and into the hose through the thermostat correct? What's before the thermostat in the system?.
Also being every hose but it gets hot and that's the only one that goes up and then down if I had no pressure the thermostat can open but the water will sit before it bc theirs nothing to push it correct?

just drove 30 mins to work and then 15 mins so 45 mins with a 10 min break. The lower radiator hose is hot where thermostat is but gets colder down it and is cold by time it gets to radiator

Also my overheat prior was about a month before this happened. Hose was ripped cut it put a hose clamp on it bought a new hose and put it on. A month later it started getting cold and knew I needed antifreeze. Did the radiator flush bc I bad tap water in it for a month and that's when problems started 2 days after that.

tony_2018

Boiling water has a lower boiling point than coolant, might wanna check your info.

meaning water boils faster than coolant.

Codielee2832

Yes I know. That's why I said idk if a 70 30 mix would boil bc it's more coolant than water.

I'm pretty sure I've got it pin pointed as a water pump but looking for second opinion before I jump on it.

i disconnected lower radiator hose from thermostat and let engine run. When it got hot I checked and the thermostat opens but no water comes through it just sits in a puddle at the elbow in the thermostat. I then poured water into the lower radiator hose thermostat side and water came pouring out of the thermostat. So no clogs or anything. To me that 100 percent verifies it's the water pump but willing to listen to other possible explanations.

Anyone have experience with Mitsuboshi belts or npw water pumps? Npw is oem for Nissan i found a set with the belt pump and tensioner for 90. Also found a water pump timing belt kit for 25 which is probably what's on here that lasted 20k miles (it just was done when sold to me)

TomCat39

Get the NPW pump, and Contitech timing belt kit. The NPW water pump is built just like the Aisin pump but it a few bucks less. The Contitech timing belt kit is a quality timing belt and if I remember right it was an NTN bearing tensioner.

All high quality parts that will last the duration they are supposed to.

I was able to find both the NPW water pump and the Contitech Timing Belt Kit on autopartsway for a reasonable price. If they have it here in Canada, I'm pretty sure they have it there in USA. They seem to carry the OEM parts variants along with the cheap junk everyone else carries. Only place I've been able to find Ishino gaskets without having to goto the dealer.

NukeNinja

Water boils at a lower temperature than antifreeze, but it has a higher heat capacity. That's why pure water will transfer more heat than pure coolant or a mixture of the two. Of course it will freeze and is corrosive. The reason you mix the two is to prevent freezing and provide cooling; it's a tradeoff. If they had the same heat capacity, you would just use pure antifreeze.

tony_2018

all would've been dealt with if these were OEM parts.

mk378

I susptect that the radiator is clogged. Detach the hoses and flush water through it. You should be able to put the full flow of a garden hose into the top of the radiator and have it immediately run out the bottom. Also, on the air side, check that the thin metal fins that fill the space between the tubes are not coming detached. .I agree that the radiator needs to be replaced before doing anything else.

Continuing to use plain water will cause severe damage by corrosion.

Water pumps that turn and don't pump are very rare. If the heater works, the water pump is working.

tony_2018

Anything could be clogged, op will have to flow test everything.