PShooter

95 Civic 1.5 with manual trans

Hi All,

I am new here. Working on my nieces car and can't seem to get the thing to start and run. Reviewed a lot of links here and followed their directions.

From beginning to end:
Niece parked car in underground parking structure and didn't drive it for 3-4 days.
Tries to start and the only thing it does is crank over.
Gets it towed to my home to get it worked on.
Initial test shows no spark to plugs
Tried researching and testing (maybe testing incorrectly?) and isolated it to either the coil or igniter. Since wasn't sure, replaced the whole distributor.

We now have spark.
Still will not start car when trying to set timing.
I can smell gas after cranking many times to try to get it to start to set timing.
Fuel pump does prime when turning ignition on
ECU fuse is good

Thought maybe flooded the engine, so pulled spark plugs out.
They were all dry but cleaned them off anyhow with a wire brush and throttle body cleaner.
Let the cylinders dry out by blowing air in there and sit without plugs for about an hour.

Still no start. I've spent many hours on this site during this whole process and it has been very helpful. But has anyone else gone through all this and still have no start?

Thanks!

Former User

Triple check that the spark plug wires are installed in the correct firing order on the distributor cap.

PShooter

Ron,

Thank you for your reply. I did at one point bump the engine to where the white mark on the crankshaft pulley was aligned with the timing pointer. I then took off the distributor cap and it was lined up with Cylinder #1.

I will be back home tomorrow and will triple check to see if I crossed any wires. I appreciate your advice.

Thanks!

averyvm

iTrader: (1)

If you are in fact getting spark and fuel it seems that things are not happening in the correct order. Like Ron said make sure you check your firing order.

PShooter

Hey guys, I visually checked firing order of 1-3-4-2. All seems good. Before I removed the distributor cap, I jacked up the car and aligned the white line on pulley to timing mark. Since I couldn't get the top of timing belt cover off, I took out spark plug on cylinder 1 and made sure it was top dead center.

Popped of dist cap, rotor was aligned on cylinder 1.

Again, I can hear fuel pump priming when turning the ignition on. Is there another way to see if fuel is injecting into cylinders?

Tomorrow, I will check for spark at the spark plug again even though I had spark at the end of the wires the last time I tested.

Am I still missing something??

Thanks!

TomCat39

A fast way to check for fuel in the cylinder is to pull your distributor harness plugs (D15B7 has 2 harness plugs to the Dizzy). Then crank the engine for 10-15 or so seconds, then pull the spark plugs and see if they are wet and smell of gas.

But.....
This part here says you already basically did this and the plugs were dry, yet you smelled gas, which is odd.

I would still try the disconnected dizzy cranking of the engine and check the plugs again. If they are dry then I'd be looking at the injectors, pressure regulator, fuel rail for leaks and fuel filter. You already mentioned you hear the fuel pump so that's probably in working condition.

Wdpfreak145

First of all are they any CEL's? Does the light function like it should?

When you turn the key two the II position the CEL should come on for 2-3 seconds while the ECU checks all the connections and the fuel pump primes while the light is on. If there are no codes it should shut off immediately.

Why can't you get the upper timing cover off? Keep in mind the distributor should fire the no.1 cylinder spark plug at 15* BTDC (if I'm thinking about this correctly). It is possible that the timing belt could have jumped a tooth... or several teeth. Line the timing marks up on the crank with the lower timing cover and then pull the upper timing cover off and check the cam gear. TDC markings are different for each d-series SOHC head, so make sure you check the sticky and find the service manual page for your specific motor.

*Hint* In case you don't already know, the engine and head model are stamped on the front of the block.

mechanix619

Did you align it properly?

PShooter

Thank you for the reply TomCat, WdPFreak145, and Mechanix619.

I pulled all the plugs out one by one to test to see if there was spark at the plugs. All were firing. Fuel smell, slightly wet plugs, and used a flashlight to look into cylinders...all were moist, which tells me fuel is spraying into the cylinders.

I currently have the plugs out to let the cylinders dry overnight.

@wdpfreak- There are no CEL lights on before I even started this troubleshooting and it doesn't stay on with the ignition on.
- When I was done installing the new distributor, I had my niece crank the engine while I turned the distributor back and forth. It should have started at some point right?
- I could not get the upper timing cover off because of the motor mount. Is there a technique I don't know about?
- I believe lining up the rotor to cylinder 1 with the white mark on the crank, and the piston is at the top of the cylinder would indicate everything lined up?

@mechanix619- Somewhere on this site it said the distributor could only go on one way. To prove that....I did try rotating the shaft 180 degrees and it wouldn't go in! haha

I appreciate everyone's input. However, I'm missing something here because everything leads to this engine should fire up and run! What else should I be checking???

Former User

If you have bright white spark at all 4 spark plugs and the injectors are spraying fuel, then check the mechanical timing and compression test the cylinders.

Wdpfreak145

Just because the piston reached the top of the stroke when you lined the white mark up on the crank doesn't mean the whole engine is at TDC. If the timing belt slipped, the bottom end could be at top dead center and the cam timing could be off meaning that the valves are opening or closing before their intended time making the car impossible to start.

I haven't had an upper timing cover on my car for a few years now so I don't remember the exact procedure but you probably need to lift the valve cover off (5 bolts) and then take out the two 10mm bolts that hold the upper timing cover onto the block. Once you've done that you can line the crank up with the timing marks and verify the timing of the head as well.

PShooter

Whoa!!! Hey Ron, could this not cause the car to fire up??? It was very bright when checking spark at the coil with cap off. Cylinder one was faint but I thought that was normal. The other cylinders were ok but not bright white. I figure if there's spark, it should still ignite the fuel...right?
Should I consider replacing the plugs? They have less than 10k's on them.


Thanks! I will do this to make sure it is lined up. Thanks for the tip!

Taking into consideration both of your advice, how can this no start condition happen when all she did was park the car and not drive it for 3 days???

Thanks again!

Former User

Spark at the plugs must be bright white in order to be hot enough to ignite the fuel. Weak spark is generally the sign of a bad coil or sometimes a bad igniter unit.

Remove the coil from the distributor and Ohm test it exactly as described at the Spark link in my signature.

PShooter

I will follow your spark test. Errrr......Not saying it could be bad but it's a brand new rebuilt distributor with new coils and igniter. Still remove and test??

Thank you. You are a wealth of information!

Wdpfreak145

I went through a similar no start issue a few years back. I replaced the distributor and Ron insisted that I test the internals to make sure they were up to spec. After a few hours of checking voltages and ohmages with a multimeter, and everything checked out, I discovered that the spark from the distributor was arcing through the rotor and not the copper lead inside it.

Point is, it can't hurt to eliminate those things even if they are a "brand new reman." Trust Ron and check the components so if nothing else, you can eliminate them as possible causes.

Former User

yes

PShooter

Thanks for the quick reply!!! I brought my laptop downstairs as I'm testing. So here's what happened for the spark test.....

I tested each spark plug with their corresponding wire and this time...I GROUNDED the spark plug next to the valve cover ground. haha I feel like an ***. Each one had a very strong spark....it's hard to tell what color with my somewhat poor eyesight and this daylight. However, it looks like a combo of white and orange.

Still test igniter?

I'm going to raise the vehicle to turn the wheel so I can turn the crank to top dead center. I will remove the valve cover this time to try to get the upper timing cover off.

PShooter

Ohhh...just saw this....I'll test again! Thanks for all your tips and guidance.

Former User

Any hint of orange suggests weak spark. Ohm test the coil.

PShooter

Ron and Wdpfreak, here are my test results:

Ignition wires:
1- 11.1 ohms
2- 10.1 ohms
3- 8.2 ohms
4- 6.8 ohms
Spec from manual says under 25k's

Distributor removed from car and removed coil on bench.
Coil:
Primary, meter set at 200:
Zero'd out at .2
Measured .8
Total .6
Manual spec: .63-.77

Secondary, meter set at 20K:
Measured 15.82
Manual spec: 12.8-19.2

Thoughts?

Just for visuals sake, here are four pics:








First pic may look off but it is lined up with timing mark.
Second picture I'm not sure what to look for. Bad angle?
Third pic is of distributor lined up on cylinder 1. With view of cap.
Fourth pic is of head. The red circles is where there's gasket material. Scrape off and apply new? Or is just putting cover back on ok?
The yellow circles, had remnants of gasket material on top of spark plug tubes. Apply new gasket silicone here also???

Sorry, not a Honda head.

Thanks guys!

Former User

The angle of the second picture is not great, but the cam is possibly off by a tooth or two. The lines should align perfectly with the top surface of the head when the pointer is aligned with the white mark on the crank pulley.

PShooter

When facing the camshaft, this is the left side timing mark. I could not get the other side properly. So this is lined up yes?


My niece just texted me and I replaced plugs, cap, and rotor on 6-1-2013 with 148,126 miles. Today it has 159, 221 miles. Can something cause the spark plugs to go bad that quick?

PShooter

It's a D15B7 engine

Former User

I think the same TDC1 lines are also stamped into the rear side of the cam pulley. With the pointer aligned with the crank pulley white mark, are both rear lines clearly aligned with the top surface of the head?

PShooter

There is no stamped mark visible, but someone marked it with paint. I tried getting a better angle on second picture.