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To more formally describe the problem, I have a 1995 Honda Civic DX with a D15B7 mated to an automatic transmission. Stock power train. Has original suspension components. I have replaced all 4 shocks and springs, the upper control arm bushings, the power steering rack, outer tie rod ends, and lower control arm bushings where they bolt to the engine craddle/subframe. Just old parts that needed to be replaced. In addition, I installed and LS Integra OEM 14mm rear sway bar with OEM control arms on the rear and OEM LS 22mm sway bar on the front.
The car "death wobbles" like a Jeep Cherokee or other vehicle with similar offroad suspension. The steering wheel feedback is very violent. A small bump or a slight steering miscalculation triggers it. It has gotten better with parts I replaced, but what behooves me is that it has IFS and it behaves in that manner. I'm leaning towards a power steering rack adjustment.
The question is, has anyone else encountered a similar problem and how was it solved?
- Was this vehicle ever involved in a collision?
- How long has this been happening? Was it immediately following a repair?
- is it possible that some of the suspension components weren't installed correctly (i.e. perhaps the springs aren't sitting in the correct position on their perches, among the many other different ways things could be installed wrong)? Who did the work on the vehicle? The issue here is that so many different things were done that there are a lot of things to check.
Behoove- : to be necessary, proper, or advantageous for <it behooves us to go
I do not believe you used this word correctly.
Jack the front of the car up and put it on jack stands. Shake the tires left to right on both sides and see if there is any play in the tie rods. Go up and down since it is up in the air and check the wheel bearings.
"You need to jack it up and wobble the wheel in all directions. Also spin wheel to checl for buckle and tyre out of shape.
Sounds like the lower ball joint - to check this wobble top/bottom but kind of lift wheel up / wobble upwards to feel the play.
If no fault found reset preload on steering rack.
Dunx"
To the best of my knowledge it has never been in a collision. And I do the work.
The car never had that issue. It had a rough ride in 2007 so I replaced the struts and springs. Restored the ride, no problems.
It started showing signs of the wobble in summer 2010. It progrssively got worse but not bad. December 2011 it got really bad and the steering rack was leaking so I replaced it along with the outer tie rod ends. I noticed the upper control arm bushings were shot and figured that was the reason the rack went bad and replaced them. Got an alignment and I was a 1/4 inch off from it being straight. It got better but still had signs. Wasn't getting worse but was still there. April 2012, I spun a rod bearing and swapped in a used engine and added the strut and sway bars. Jan 2013 blew a head gasket got tired of dealing with used engines and parked the car till last week. Completely rebuilt an engine and swapped it in, and now the only weak link is the wobble. I replaced the lower control arm bushings which were horrible and figured the play in the suspension geometry coincided with the wobble. Now there is only a slight wobble which now feels more like very twitchy steering which leads me to believe a steering rack adjustment will be the last step.
Not a single mention of an alignment ANYWHERE? For shame, ALL of you.
OP, after you replaced all of those parts, an alignment is absolutely necessary. Did you have one? Violent steering wheel reaction and wobbling, the absolute first thing that should be verified is the alignment.
Edit: Ah, you posted while I was posting. Your last alignment was in 2011, then?
That is exactly what I did. I raised and placed the car on jack stands. Shook and moved the tires and the play was in the control arm bushings. I inspected the wheel bearings and they were good.
I've been making progress over the years, just very slow. I have encountered a similar feel with defective tires on 12 passenger vans that is felt on 40+ mph with perfectly balanced tires. But on my EG8, it is felt at 10+ mph and can be felt more with increased speed. It wasn't driven much between 2011-2012 because I purchased a Z31 Turbo so I figured the alignment becoming undone was highly unlikely.
If after the alignment if you still have this issue, there is two possibilities I'm aware of it could be.
One is bent rims if you are driving steelies. But usually a balance will take that out of the equation.
The other that I've heard about but haven't verified with my wobble yet is worn axles. I've been told that the cv joints can wear that won't be to the point of popping on turning but can cause wobble.
If it is that and is also my case on my car, it's not a "death" wobble, just an annoying one. I get the wobble most pronounced at certain speeds and less at others and I have had the car up to 120 MPH (185+ KPH) on more than one occasion and not had any catastrophes. I noticed at under 10 KPH it's really pronounced, lessens until about 120 KPH is good at 110 KPH and 130 KPH but is noticeable at 140 KPH. Currently I believe all the bushings on the car are original. I also know I have 2 bent steelies on the front but even when the straight ones were on the front it still had the wobble. The wobble has been present through 3 sets of tires.
Just adding in that there is a chance it's not the dreaded death wobble that can kill you if the circumstances are right.
Also in my case I have manual rack and pinion so there is no steering adjustment.
Have you had the tires inspected for lumps/bumps and any irregularities? A warped sidewall or tread(especially from it sitting or dry-rotting) can completely cause this wobble.
Tomcat39 you should read this. It might help: http://www.civic-eg.com/viewtopic.php?t=19324
It covers the procedure for adjusting manual and power steering racks, includes the tool part number and has excellent pictures.
As for the tires, I'm not ruling them out as a possibility, but it has moderately new tires. About 4-6 thousand miles on them. I purchased a new set because I had a belt tear internally and bulged the tire. I spun the tires and felt the tread for any special irregularities. Very slight wear on the inside but not abnormal.
I am not near my vehicle anymore so an opportunity to inspect/replace parts arises every week or two when I travel down to Phoenix. Please bear with me. Hoping to keep this thread alive with valuable information. Thank you!
I hope to fix the issue in order to drive my EG8 up to where I live.
To further describe the vehicle, I forgot to mention that I had also installed a new set of tires about a month after I replaced the steering rack because of the bulging.
Didn't realize the adjustment was also on the manual rack too. I always read power steering racks only with the 40mm wrench. I will have to take a closer look at my rack.
I think you should've gone and gotten an alignment first and then post up if the issue was still there. If you're going to the extent of changing all that you have listed, and I hope you also have good tires and not mix/match used tires, than the alignment should be the last thing done. Another thing to look for is that rubber round piece that goes around the rack and pinion, was that ever replaced?
Replacing all the bushing made the biggest difference. I have tightened the manual rack a few time to help the bump steer but there is still to much play. I am hoping to replace the rack soon before I go for more power.
Alright guys, I realize it has been quite a few months but I have been making some progress. I study away from where the vehicle is and it is rare occurrence when I get an opportunity to take in a deep breath of home. I feel it is important to document my progress because someone may encounter the same problem as me, and may want some guidance as to where they should start as there are many threads without closure.
Since I swapped in the engine in July 2014,
Pressed in new lower control arm bushings in the front control arms and got slightly "tighter" response. Not immensely notable.
Tightened the steering rack "play" with the 40mm wrench. Helped reduce the violent steering wheel to an excessive tantrum.
At the end of October I replaced both outer tie rod ends, and there was a notable increase in tightness (Haven't done an alignment yet because I may need to remove these again soon). Yes, once I took them out and moved them around, they were bad, even after replacing one a couple years before and even after checking them on the vehicle and applying pressure with a 4 foot pry bar and everything feeling tight.
Replaced upper and lower ball joints. It was quite a process figuring out how to remove the lower one, but once I removed the knuckle, I tailored a stack of stepping stones to support the knuckle and used a sledge hammer to knock the joint out, then used the press and Honda ball joint adapter set, available at our friendly neighborhood parts stores, along with and impact which all worked beautifully. For the uppers, it was less expensive to replace the whole control arm with bushings and ball joint, than to attempt a daring mission to press new joints into the stamped steel arms, so inevitably on an aspiring collegiate student budget, I opted for the more rational decision. I then drove the car, and the "Death wobble" was no more.
Joints are the cause of violent front end shaking.
BUT, now the car feels like the rack/tires are floating. Not terrible, but the feeling should not be there. All this is very unsettling, an extremely disappointing feeling after looking at something over and over and it perceiving to be correct when it isn't. After everything I have learned, this car is still taking me to school and I love it. Anyways, I read on a couple of different forums and the leading suspects were joints and bushings.
and the previous posts here as well as on the aforementioned thread gives me hope.
The next thing I will do will be to reinspect the steering rack mounting bushings and any other bushings that may need to be refreshed, considering the possibility of another steering rack, and try a tire rotation. The only real issue with the rotation is removing the locks I have on the rear wheels. The key has suddenly grown legs and decided to make a new life of its own out in the world.
But thank you all for the input! Every little bit helps!
I will continue to post here until the issue is completely resolved.
Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!
I reach them, then I put bricks under the tires, then I lower the car on them and tighten them down, those were the old lower control arm bushings. I never replaced those, I replaced the uppers.
07-28-2014, 03:31 PM
95 Civic "Death Wobble".
Re: 95 Civic "Death Wobble".
