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Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
Okie dokie artichokie... After 20+ days I finally got the results from a compression test: 210 psi across the board (give or take >5 psi) on a warm engine. So what the hell does this mean?
I've also noticed that my radiator cap may not be functioning correctly--the radiator would be low on coolant but the reservoir level would not change. Then the seal of the cap "melted" (looks all torn up and black chunks stuck along the radiator hole). Afterwards the reservoir was completely drained, filled it up, drove, drained again. I cleaned up the shelf where the cap seals which seems to have resealed from the reservoir because the reservoir level isn't moving again. Also, every time I uncap the radiator there is still a pressurized-air-escaping sound but also a "gurgle" from within the engine.
It's one of those cheap ebay aluminum radiators. I was thinking about buying a Koyorad cap to aid in this (or just throw back in the stock radiator).
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
Here are what the spark plugs look like, if it helps any. Cylinder 3's plug is a little oily because there was oil in the well (leaky valve cover seal).
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
If you laid them out in 4-3-2-1, I’d say #2 looks a little darker than the rest. Not burning fuel properly/mixture a tad too rich? Can’t really tell about the electrode wear. Are you going to change the valve cover gasket?
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
7 months later, I've now begun the process of repairing the engine this thread was created for... As of right now, I have the D15B7 on a stand where I have full access to anywhere on the engine that needs assessing. I went ahead and removed the timing belt covers which unveiled this complete **** show . The entire area has been drenched with oil, including the timing belt itself. Good thing I stopped using this engine when I did lol.
What I'm thinking is that oil is leaking from somewhere (obviously) and is being picked up by the timing belt which is splattering it all over. The insides of the timing belt covers are also coated in wet oil. The question now is where is it leaking? Here's an additional photo from after I had removed the cam gear and other parts:
As you can see, there are puddles of oil sitting on top of the oil pump and drops of oil hanging from various surfaces, high and low. From what I'm seeing, the front main crankshaft seal is NOT flush with the lip of the seating area, sticking out by about two millimeters. Is this what you call "walking out" - the seal is walking out? The seal is also very wet with oil. Is this where the timing belt is picking up oil and flinging it around? As for the camshaft seal, I don't see any drips forming around it, but it is a little grimy. I know for a fact that the oil pan gasket needs to be replaced which is on my list of repairs.
Also, I've been contemplating on whether or not I should replace the head gasket because money (and time) is sort of tight, but after revisiting this thread it kinda sounds like I should. But remember no coolant is in the oil or vice versa. I'm thinking it could be a problem with these ebay aluminum radiators. My other two del Sols have them and the coolant in their reservoirs keep diminishing over time too. But here's a photo of what the cylinder head looks like - I've noticed a thin layer of deposit (sludge?) coating everything. Could this be due to small amounts of coolant getting in, or is this normal?
Any suggestions?
Last edited by HairyHarry; 07-17-2019 at 03:23 PM.
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
Originally Posted by HairyHarry
As you can see, there are puddles of oil sitting on top of the oil pump and drops of oil hanging from various surfaces, high and low. From what I'm seeing, the front main crankshaft seal is NOT flush with the lip of the seating area, sticking out by about two millimeters. Is this what you call "walking out" - the seal is walking out? The seal is also very wet with oil. Is this where the timing belt is picking up oil and flinging it around? As for the camshaft seal, I don't see any drips forming around it, but it is a little grimy. I know for a fact that the oil pan gasket needs to be replaced which is on my list of repairs.
Also, I've been contemplating on whether or not I should replace the head gasket because money (and time) is sort of tight, but after revisiting this thread it kinda sounds like I should.
Looks like seal. I havent personally come across seal "walking out", but I suppose its not impossible if you have a gummed up pcv or something... I know after enough time teflon seals will wear the shaft. this can be in the tenths range but it is enough to make them leak, so sometimes people will install their seal slightly in or out axially from the original seal location.
as for gasket, it looks like you have it on a stand dude so why not? OEM gasket and head studs shouldnt be too bad on a honda.
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
Originally Posted by Big1000
I know after enough time teflon seals will wear the shaft. this can be in the tenths range but it is enough to make them leak, so sometimes people will install their seal slightly in or out axially from the original seal location.
That's interesting, but apparently it didn't work for this crankshaft (that is if its actually worn). Do you know if the seal is supposed to be flush with the lip of the seat or pushed in as far as it can go?
As for the head gasket, it really does look as if the guy slathered red RTV all over before installing it, which is probably why I found red RTV in my coolant reservoir tank. So I'm most likely going to take the head off and see what's going on.
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
If you look at the photos above, you will see that the head gasket blew between cylinder 1 and 2. This head gasket is a 3-layer metal gasket and it was split on the top and bottom layers - the middle layer was still intact. I don't know if this is an OEM head gasket or a cheap aftermarket one (I'm guessing the latter), but it's said that these mulit-layer metal gaskets are pretty strong. So what do you think caused it to blow in that spot? Warped head? The compression of the motor was very good as mentioned before and there wasn't any noticeable loss in power. Was it because the guy slathered it in RTV?
Here's the area on both the head and block where the head gasket blew. It doesn't look as if there's any cracks in either one.
Head:
Block:
I guess the next step would be to check how smooth/flat both surfaces are using a flat edge?
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
Here in BC Canada I got a head resurfaced and pressure tested for 100 bucks. Your mileage may very. Call around and see what your machine shops charge.
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
That RTV, man.... some peoples' kids.
I got a head milled straight, pressure tested, and washed for ... CAD$150? And I live in an expensive part of the country, so you should be able to do better than that, especially if you don't go for the royal treatment (it was nice to get that super clean head back, though, lemme just say). I'm going to guess that the P.O. wrecked the HG with all that RTV on there. Get a Honda or Fel-Pro one and do it by the book. Opinions vary on the copper spray. I wound up not using it on my graphite HG. But I would have on an MLS one. Especially if I hadn't had the milling done.
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
Looking at the photos, there seems to be some discoloration on the head and the block around where the head gasket blew. Is this from oil or coolant? The valves and combustion chamber on cylinder 2 of the head seem pretty wet compared to the other three. I'm thinking coolant leaked into both cylinder 1 and 2 (more in 2) from the two coolant passages closest to ground zero through the split layers on the head gasket. Is this possible? Would that explain the coolant loss? Would it also explain how the exhaust gasses were getting into the coolant?
Originally Posted by TomCat39
Here in BC Canada I got a head resurfaced and pressure tested for 100 bucks. Your mileage may very. Call around and see what your machine shops charge.
I may just call around. I've looked on one machine shop's website and their rate was $150/hr.
Originally Posted by deschlong
That RTV, man.... some peoples' kids.
I got a head milled straight, pressure tested, and washed for ... CAD$150? And I live in an expensive part of the country, so you should be able to do better than that, especially if you don't go for the royal treatment (it was nice to get that super clean head back, though, lemme just say). I'm going to guess that the P.O. wrecked the HG with all that RTV on there. Get a Honda or Fel-Pro one and do it by the book. Opinions vary on the copper spray. I wound up not using it on my graphite HG. But I would have on an MLS one. Especially if I hadn't had the milling done.
The sad thing is that the guy who did it had to be in his 30's. I think he may have originally put the gasket on without RTV, but screwed up the job somehow making him pull the head off again, then reused the gasket because he was too cheap to buy another one. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if the head bolts were reused more than once, if not the OEM bolts.
For the replacement, I'm looking at an OEM D16Y8 MLS gasket, but I also see the Fel-Pro multi-layer gaskets for the same price (~$60) which come with a 1 year warranty. Right now I'm waiting for an automotive straight edge that I've ordered to test the block/head.
Last edited by HairyHarry; 07-19-2019 at 10:52 AM.
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
The old story about not being able to reuse head bolts in these cars is a story that refuses to die. These cars don't use stretch bolts (torque angled to spec), they just use run of the mill bolts (torqued to N-m / ft-lbs). Honda is so **** about replacing perfectly re-usable bolts (suspension bolts, anyone? who does that?), that there's no way the lack of mention of 'use only new head bolts' in the service manual would be an oversight. Just clean up the threads: On the bolt with a metal brush, and in the blind bolt holes with a chaser (NOT a tap). Since the bolt holes are so g.d. long, a 10cm bolt of same thread pitch and width, with a proper notch out of it to collect thread crud, will do you fine. Need to be able to hand-tighten a bolt all the way down.
Maybe you know this stuff already, but I just finished my first ever HG replacement myself and this is all still fresh in my head and isn't helping anyone by letting it stay in there.
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
In the case of your motor, I'd second the thought of a chase for the bolt holes being the PO seems to have already fuqed up a few things. Doubt the holes are easily cleaned.
I usually don't bother chasing but do spray non-chlorinated brake cleaner in them and use my nylon brush set to clean up the threads and lastly blow all the crud out with my air compressor. I've done 3 or 4 head gaskets, all MLS, felpro or Inshino leak gaskets and never have used copper spray, all the motors have run fine including one I've beat the living snot out of and it's now in my wifes car with bad rings on #4. Bad enough it's sealing up via oil and if it sits long enough it runs on 3 cylinders until oil builds up around the rings to reseal it. Head gasket is still strong though lol. Oh and I've never replaced the head bolts. I think the block threads will give before the steel bolts do.
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
Originally Posted by deschlong
The old story about not being able to reuse head bolts in these cars is a story that refuses to die. These cars don't use stretch bolts (torque angled to spec), they just use run of the mill bolts (torqued to N-m / ft-lbs). Honda is so **** about replacing perfectly re-usable bolts (suspension bolts, anyone? who does that?), that there's no way the lack of mention of 'use only new head bolts' in the service manual would be an oversight. Just clean up the threads: On the bolt with a metal brush, and in the blind bolt holes with a chaser (NOT a tap). Since the bolt holes are so g.d. long, a 10cm bolt of same thread pitch and width, with a proper notch out of it to collect thread crud, will do you fine. Need to be able to hand-tighten a bolt all the way down.
Maybe you know this stuff already, but I just finished my first ever HG replacement myself and this is all still fresh in my head and isn't helping anyone by letting it stay in there.
After having done a tonne of head gaskets, I can say that you will be fine reusing the bolts on every application where the bolts are torqued only and no torque angle is required.
01-02-2019, 04:36 PM
Re: '93 Honda Del Sol Head Gasket Leaking (っ◔◡◔)っ ♥ O I L ♥ (And More!)
. The entire area has been drenched with oil, including the timing belt itself. Good thing I stopped using this engine when I did lol.
