93 civic dx orange spark no start
04-12-2018, 04:10 PM
#1
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93 civic dx orange spark no start
hello, i have been building my lil project for some time now. its a built and boosted eg dx.
whole motor internals have less than 1500 miles. last time i drove it, i pulled into my parking stall and let it cool down before i turned it off. came out the next day and it would not start.
brand new:
plugs
wires
distributor x2
ignitor stock and after market both new
icm
checked and redid some grounds
chipped ecm plus spare stock ecm both good po6
all fuses new
new main relay x2
new 440cc injectors
volt tested all wires - all have same voltage as battery or the correct voltage needed. ohm tested grounds all were in spec.(tranny, valve cover, and redid g101) ecm pins all check out.
did the timing 3x to make sure was correct and spun crank over to make sure timing was still in spec. i have after market cam and gear but i made sure the rotor was on #1 cylinder.
i tried both distributor and em on a del sol and worked fine.
i am all out of ideas. it has to be something super stupid..
... time for the honda gurus to shine!
any help is much appreciated.
whole motor internals have less than 1500 miles. last time i drove it, i pulled into my parking stall and let it cool down before i turned it off. came out the next day and it would not start.
brand new:
plugs
wires
distributor x2
ignitor stock and after market both new
icm
checked and redid some grounds
chipped ecm plus spare stock ecm both good po6
all fuses new
new main relay x2
new 440cc injectors
volt tested all wires - all have same voltage as battery or the correct voltage needed. ohm tested grounds all were in spec.(tranny, valve cover, and redid g101) ecm pins all check out.
did the timing 3x to make sure was correct and spun crank over to make sure timing was still in spec. i have after market cam and gear but i made sure the rotor was on #1 cylinder.
i tried both distributor and em on a del sol and worked fine.
i am all out of ideas. it has to be something super stupid..
... time for the honda gurus to shine!any help is much appreciated.
04-13-2018, 07:32 AM
#4
Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
You say distributor new x2. Aftermarket or OEM?
Many people have reported aftermarket distributors being garbage straight out of the box.
The other thing that comes to mind, you said you redid G101 on the thermostat housing. I recall seeing someone had problems when the order of the stack was not as it was stock.
Did you get the connectors put back in the same order? If I recall, there is at least 3 circle connectors stacked on top of each other bolted to the housing.
And lastly, did you change out any of your major ground straps i.e. tranny to frame or valve cover to frame? I have seen where someone had issues when they "upgraded" the tranny to frame ground strap to a battery cable. Car worked once they went back to the OEM strap.
Many people have reported aftermarket distributors being garbage straight out of the box.
The other thing that comes to mind, you said you redid G101 on the thermostat housing. I recall seeing someone had problems when the order of the stack was not as it was stock.
Did you get the connectors put back in the same order? If I recall, there is at least 3 circle connectors stacked on top of each other bolted to the housing.
And lastly, did you change out any of your major ground straps i.e. tranny to frame or valve cover to frame? I have seen where someone had issues when they "upgraded" the tranny to frame ground strap to a battery cable. Car worked once they went back to the OEM strap.
04-13-2018, 07:47 AM
#5
Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
Go to the del Sol that runs.
Unplug all the fuel injectors to make it temporarily so it won't start.
Test the spark exactly the same way you have been doing on your car.
Orange?
If so, you can conclude those sparks are OK and there's some other reason that your car won't start. Have you tested the compression? Checked the cam timing? All of the "cranks but won't start" drill. Assume nothing.
Unplug all the fuel injectors to make it temporarily so it won't start.
Test the spark exactly the same way you have been doing on your car.
Orange?
If so, you can conclude those sparks are OK and there's some other reason that your car won't start. Have you tested the compression? Checked the cam timing? All of the "cranks but won't start" drill. Assume nothing.
04-13-2018, 12:01 PM
#6
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
You say distributor new x2. Aftermarket or OEM?
Many people have reported aftermarket distributors being garbage straight out of the box.
The other thing that comes to mind, you said you redid G101 on the thermostat housing. I recall seeing someone had problems when the order of the stack was not as it was stock.
Did you get the connectors put back in the same order? If I recall, there is at least 3 circle connectors stacked on top of each other bolted to the housing.
And lastly, did you change out any of your major ground straps i.e. tranny to frame or valve cover to frame? I have seen where someone had issues when they "upgraded" the tranny to frame ground strap to a battery cable. Car worked once they went back to the OEM strap.
Many people have reported aftermarket distributors being garbage straight out of the box.
The other thing that comes to mind, you said you redid G101 on the thermostat housing. I recall seeing someone had problems when the order of the stack was not as it was stock.
Did you get the connectors put back in the same order? If I recall, there is at least 3 circle connectors stacked on top of each other bolted to the housing.
And lastly, did you change out any of your major ground straps i.e. tranny to frame or valve cover to frame? I have seen where someone had issues when they "upgraded" the tranny to frame ground strap to a battery cable. Car worked once they went back to the OEM strap.
I did try and swap out tranny ground...i did test for resistance in motor ground and they were good....sweet thanks for the idea I will double triple check grounds again..thank u
04-13-2018, 12:03 PM
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
Go to the del Sol that runs.
Unplug all the fuel injectors to make it temporarily so it won't start.
Test the spark exactly the same way you have been doing on your car.
Will try when I get back to the Del Sol.
thank you.
Orange?
If so, you can conclude those sparks are OK and there's some other reason that your car won't start. Have you tested the compression? Checked the cam timing? All of the "cranks but won't start" drill. Assume nothing.
Unplug all the fuel injectors to make it temporarily so it won't start.
Test the spark exactly the same way you have been doing on your car.
Will try when I get back to the Del Sol.
thank you.
Orange?
If so, you can conclude those sparks are OK and there's some other reason that your car won't start. Have you tested the compression? Checked the cam timing? All of the "cranks but won't start" drill. Assume nothing.
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04-13-2018, 12:15 PM
#8
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
Bottom half is good was running fine before I turned it off..i rebuilt the bottom both block and head have well under 1500miles. Compression is their..i do not have a tester or any numbers...but I've never had any issues with it...all new rings bearings etc.
04-13-2018, 01:20 PM
#9
Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
No. Don't change any parts on the Del Sol. Have a car that works, then disable the fuel injectors and test the sparks like you would your car. This is to see if your test is valid. If you have a car that fires orange on your test but is still going to start, then the orange sparks you're seeing must be OK to start a car.
You: "Compression is there..."
Me: Assume nothing.
You: "Compression is there..."
Me: Assume nothing.
04-13-2018, 04:53 PM
#10
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
No. Don't change any parts on the Del Sol. Have a car that works, then disable the fuel injectors and test the sparks like you would your car. This is to see if your test is valid. If you have a car that fires orange on your test but is still going to start, then the orange sparks you're seeing must be OK to start a car.
You: "Compression is there..."
Me: Assume nothing.
You: "Compression is there..."
Me: Assume nothing.
04-14-2018, 10:21 AM
#11
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
I was able to take a go at it this morning and made sure g101 grounds were all good- still weak spark.
i did however discover a voltage drop from 12.17v down to 5.8v when cranking. this voltage was measured before the dizzy from the blk and yellow wire. any ideas why this is accruing?
also i have 4 g101 wires 2 read 8.5v one was ground and one read 11.9v? is this okay?
i am charging my battery right now so i might not be able to get back to it today.
thank you for all the help!
i did however discover a voltage drop from 12.17v down to 5.8v when cranking. this voltage was measured before the dizzy from the blk and yellow wire. any ideas why this is accruing?
also i have 4 g101 wires 2 read 8.5v one was ground and one read 11.9v? is this okay?
i am charging my battery right now so i might not be able to get back to it today.
thank you for all the help!
04-15-2018, 07:17 AM
#12
Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
Yes that is a problem. All the ground wires should be near zero volts to battery (-). And the power wire should not drop that much, unless of course the battery is nearly dead.
04-16-2018, 04:50 PM
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
okay...charged battery fixed the voltage drop. it only went down to 10v while cranking. i am getting consistent spark bright o rangy 
with some purple. i pulled the probe about one inch away from the coil pack and still had spark to probe end. ...still no start? i smell gas and get exhaust fumes coming out of catch can when cranking. i volt tested the injectors. with key on it had solid voltage to both ends, around 11\12v ... when i crank it the voltage only drops to roughly 8v was the lowest i saw from all 4 injectors while cranking. does any one know if the ground signal on the injector pulse should drop more than 8v??? or if i should be getting constant voltage to both sides of the injectors with key on?
with some purple. i pulled the probe about one inch away from the coil pack and still had spark to probe end. ...still no start? i smell gas and get exhaust fumes coming out of catch can when cranking. i volt tested the injectors. with key on it had solid voltage to both ends, around 11\12v ... when i crank it the voltage only drops to roughly 8v was the lowest i saw from all 4 injectors while cranking. does any one know if the ground signal on the injector pulse should drop more than 8v??? or if i should be getting constant voltage to both sides of the injectors with key on?
04-16-2018, 06:10 PM
#16
Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
Seems like spark is good. So at this point you should go through the other cranks but won't start tests.
A meter isn't very useful to check injector drive. Use a "noid light" instead. This can be done simply with a 194 bulb. Bend the wires out and down away from the glass. Unplug an injector and stick the bulb wire ends in the plug. Bulb should flash when you crank.
One end of all the injectors is battery voltage from the main relay. The other end is driven to ground with a short pulse from the ECU.
A meter isn't very useful to check injector drive. Use a "noid light" instead. This can be done simply with a 194 bulb. Bend the wires out and down away from the glass. Unplug an injector and stick the bulb wire ends in the plug. Bulb should flash when you crank.
One end of all the injectors is battery voltage from the main relay. The other end is driven to ground with a short pulse from the ECU.
04-17-2018, 06:05 AM
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
Seems like spark is good. So at this point you should go through the other cranks but won't start tests.
A meter isn't very useful to check injector drive. Use a "noid light" instead. This can be done simply with a 194 bulb. Bend the wires out and down away from the glass. Unplug an injector and stick the bulb wire ends in the plug. Bulb should flash when you crank.
One end of all the injectors is battery voltage from the main relay. The other end is driven to ground with a short pulse from the ECU.
A meter isn't very useful to check injector drive. Use a "noid light" instead. This can be done simply with a 194 bulb. Bend the wires out and down away from the glass. Unplug an injector and stick the bulb wire ends in the plug. Bulb should flash when you crank.
One end of all the injectors is battery voltage from the main relay. The other end is driven to ground with a short pulse from the ECU.
I will have a little time after work to dive in.
thank you
04-17-2018, 04:24 PM
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
did the pulse test ...the 440cc injectors are getting pulse. i ohm tested them at 11.8 all four injectors. the factory spec is 12.5. is this a problem? with the injectors??? will the stay open longer? all proper voltage is supplied to the injectors from ecm\main relay.
i pulled plug after cranking and it was very saturated with fuel. fuel pressure is set to 43psi and is pushing 43psi on crank. could the injectors be flooding? i do smell strong gas. injector spec psi is 30-100psi. static at 42-43.5psi it was previously set to 40psi...same problem.
any and all help is greatly appreciated as i am %100 stumped.
i have some stock injectors that are good i will try to swap them out to see if that is indeed the issue.
I did go into boost a while ago before i had this issue and fried the main relay and ecm fuse ...do you think i burnt the injectors? they are brand new 440cc injectors.
i pulled plug after cranking and it was very saturated with fuel. fuel pressure is set to 43psi and is pushing 43psi on crank. could the injectors be flooding? i do smell strong gas. injector spec psi is 30-100psi. static at 42-43.5psi it was previously set to 40psi...same problem.
any and all help is greatly appreciated as i am %100 stumped.
i have some stock injectors that are good i will try to swap them out to see if that is indeed the issue.
I did go into boost a while ago before i had this issue and fried the main relay and ecm fuse ...do you think i burnt the injectors? they are brand new 440cc injectors.
04-18-2018, 04:01 AM
#19
Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
Your chip tune should account for the larger injectors. Of course using a stock ECU with large injectors will cause flooding.
The amount of fuel injected is driven by the duration of the injector pulse x the injector flow rating. The exact resistance isn't important.
The amount of fuel injected is driven by the duration of the injector pulse x the injector flow rating. The exact resistance isn't important.
04-18-2018, 01:15 PM
#20
Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
Did you ever post your cold engine compression results?
04-18-2018, 03:14 PM
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
thank you for the info.
04-18-2018, 03:19 PM
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
negative....i have to get a hold of a gauge to do the test. the bottom half is rebuilt and i can hear it building loud.
now i did want to point out that when i go out to crank it for the first time in 24hrs....the initial few cranks almost wants to turn over. but then it does not and just cranks...the spark plugs are wet to the touch with fuel.??? when i have a chance to get someone to pull it up to the top of the hill i want to try and bump start it.
now i did want to point out that when i go out to crank it for the first time in 24hrs....the initial few cranks almost wants to turn over. but then it does not and just cranks...the spark plugs are wet to the touch with fuel.??? when i have a chance to get someone to pull it up to the top of the hill i want to try and bump start it.
04-19-2018, 06:24 AM
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
I will grab a compression guage tomorrow and do a cold test this weekend.
I noticed that immediately after the fuel pump primes the pressure drops to 0psi then when I crank it, the pressure shoots up to the set psi at 43...any ideas? Is that okay if it primes on crank?
I noticed that immediately after the fuel pump primes the pressure drops to 0psi then when I crank it, the pressure shoots up to the set psi at 43...any ideas? Is that okay if it primes on crank?
05-11-2018, 06:19 AM
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Re: 93 civic dx orange spark no start
Sorry been a while...busy with work...any way boys here's the update.
got a truck to pull the ride up the hill....rolled it down and bump started it....son of a bitch fired up...sounded great! But would not hold idle at all....i had to hold my foot on the gas.
the tach was stuck at 1000rpm and would not move...i couldn't get it to rev up...but was able to raise the rpm past 1000 but tach would not budge.
bought another brand new dizzy still no start from crank but when I push gas pedal on crank the motor sounds like it really wants to start...???
any advice??
much thanks!
got a truck to pull the ride up the hill....rolled it down and bump started it....son of a bitch fired up...sounded great! But would not hold idle at all....i had to hold my foot on the gas.
the tach was stuck at 1000rpm and would not move...i couldn't get it to rev up...but was able to raise the rpm past 1000 but tach would not budge.
bought another brand new dizzy still no start from crank but when I push gas pedal on crank the motor sounds like it really wants to start...???
any advice??
much thanks!