93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
10-14-2018, 11:04 AM
#1
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
Please see my last post for current trial and tribulation regarding wheel squeal. See under the dotted line below for old original problem and beginning of thread regarding my wife's 93 civic hatch.
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Alrighty then, I've been off this week and I decided it was a good time to get the D16Z6 motor I've been prepping into my wifes 93 Civic DX. I already did the two vtec wires from ECU to shock tower in prep quite some time ago.
This morning I finally got the car to crank (forgot to tighten tranny ground wire) and confirmed all connections are made etc. I do have compression however I have not grabbed the cold engine numbers as of yet as I literally just got the car cranking. I will pull the numbers in the process however, the car was popping the plug wires up without plugs in it when it was on the stand and hand cranking it so there is some compression.
Now lets get to it, I'm not the most fluent with the electrical/ECU processes, so I really don't know what prevents what from operating in that realm.
With that said, I don't have fuel. I cranked the car long enough the oil light went out, no ECU light came on after the 2 second pump prime light up. I am not sure how long of cranking before a code might be set in the ecu on the no fire situation. Also after, I pulled the plugs (brand spanking new) and there was no smell of fuel on the plug or from the cylinders (pulled 2 and 4). I know I'm getting fuel to the rail and to the pressure regulator. I can smell it at the regulator so that is something else I will need to address. New clamp, new seal etc.
I thought there was an poor man noid light trick to see if the injectors are being pulsed. If someone knows what light is required I can definitely get that angle.
In the meantime, what systems have to fail to prevent the ecu from pulsing fuel?
Also, will you get spark if you aren't getting fuel pulses or are they linked in some way? I will test for quality of spark too but if no fuel pulses means no spark, kind of pointless at that point.
Please help me begin to understand how the ECU systems work with one another so that I can successfully go through this diagnostics.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alrighty then, I've been off this week and I decided it was a good time to get the D16Z6 motor I've been prepping into my wifes 93 Civic DX. I already did the two vtec wires from ECU to shock tower in prep quite some time ago.
This morning I finally got the car to crank (forgot to tighten tranny ground wire) and confirmed all connections are made etc. I do have compression however I have not grabbed the cold engine numbers as of yet as I literally just got the car cranking. I will pull the numbers in the process however, the car was popping the plug wires up without plugs in it when it was on the stand and hand cranking it so there is some compression.
Now lets get to it, I'm not the most fluent with the electrical/ECU processes, so I really don't know what prevents what from operating in that realm.
With that said, I don't have fuel. I cranked the car long enough the oil light went out, no ECU light came on after the 2 second pump prime light up. I am not sure how long of cranking before a code might be set in the ecu on the no fire situation. Also after, I pulled the plugs (brand spanking new) and there was no smell of fuel on the plug or from the cylinders (pulled 2 and 4). I know I'm getting fuel to the rail and to the pressure regulator. I can smell it at the regulator so that is something else I will need to address. New clamp, new seal etc.
I thought there was an poor man noid light trick to see if the injectors are being pulsed. If someone knows what light is required I can definitely get that angle.
In the meantime, what systems have to fail to prevent the ecu from pulsing fuel?
Also, will you get spark if you aren't getting fuel pulses or are they linked in some way? I will test for quality of spark too but if no fuel pulses means no spark, kind of pointless at that point.
Please help me begin to understand how the ECU systems work with one another so that I can successfully go through this diagnostics.
Last edited by TomCat39; 08-04-2019 at 08:24 PM.
10-14-2018, 01:02 PM
#2
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) Crank, no start.
The ECU syncs up to the distributor sensors to know that the engine is turning and how fast, then it can inject fuel. I think it is about 10 seconds with no distributor pulses the ECU will throw distributor sensor codes and maybe turn the CEL on. This assumes that the starter signal to the ECU is working so that it can know that someone is trying to start the car rather than just sitting there KOEO.
Take a #194 bulb and bend the wires down away from the glass and push them into one of the injector plugs. Bulb should then flash while cranking.
Also check for distributor shaft engaged 180 degrees out of time, or spark plug wires in wrong sequence. The plugs really should not get wet with fuel, that is almost a sign of too much fuel.
Also try swapping back to your DX (P06) ECU if you know it was working before it should start and run a D16Z6 other than no VTEC.
Take a #194 bulb and bend the wires down away from the glass and push them into one of the injector plugs. Bulb should then flash while cranking.
Also check for distributor shaft engaged 180 degrees out of time, or spark plug wires in wrong sequence. The plugs really should not get wet with fuel, that is almost a sign of too much fuel.
Also try swapping back to your DX (P06) ECU if you know it was working before it should start and run a D16Z6 other than no VTEC.
10-14-2018, 04:32 PM
#3
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) Crank, no start.
Thank you for that.
I literally just got back from picking up a set of 194 bulbs. Bending the wires seems like a much simpler process than the DIY I found soldering wires to it etc...
Good to know the plugs shouldn't get wet with fuel, but I also didn't smell fuel coming from the spark tube with the plug out on either cylinder. Not to say my nose couldn't fail me but fairly confident no fuel was being sprayed.
Thank you for the suggestion of the P06 ECU. I will try that one also. The 3 new items to the car are the engine (and engine harness), the distributor and the ECU. I suspect, based on what you said, the distributor may not be giving the signals to the ECU to pulse the injectors. I am pretty sure I cranked it for more than 10 seconds as I felt the battery began to lose some of it's oomph. Thankfully I have a charger and had just finished charging it before the run this morning.
Thank you again for the great information. I will be sure to let you know how it goes.
After messing with it over the past week doing the swap, I think I'm going to wait till tomorrow after work to begin dinkering and will report back my findings, good or bad.
Oh almost forgot to address the two other points you made. I'm confident I put the distributor in properly as I looked at it at least 3 times to confirm the offsets matched but will confirm to be safe. And I also confirmed the plug sequence is correct on the dizzy by comparing it to the TD41U (B7 Dizzy) on the pulled motor that was running prior to being pulled a few days ago.
That is another question, is there anything significantly different between the TD41U (non vtec) and the TD42U (vtec) distributors or is it to do with the mounting housing? I didn't check to see if the working TD41U would fit up to the new motor, just thinking about a bad dizzy scenario and what options would be available.
I literally just got back from picking up a set of 194 bulbs. Bending the wires seems like a much simpler process than the DIY I found soldering wires to it etc...
Good to know the plugs shouldn't get wet with fuel, but I also didn't smell fuel coming from the spark tube with the plug out on either cylinder. Not to say my nose couldn't fail me but fairly confident no fuel was being sprayed.
Thank you for the suggestion of the P06 ECU. I will try that one also. The 3 new items to the car are the engine (and engine harness), the distributor and the ECU. I suspect, based on what you said, the distributor may not be giving the signals to the ECU to pulse the injectors. I am pretty sure I cranked it for more than 10 seconds as I felt the battery began to lose some of it's oomph. Thankfully I have a charger and had just finished charging it before the run this morning.
Thank you again for the great information. I will be sure to let you know how it goes.
After messing with it over the past week doing the swap, I think I'm going to wait till tomorrow after work to begin dinkering and will report back my findings, good or bad.
Oh almost forgot to address the two other points you made. I'm confident I put the distributor in properly as I looked at it at least 3 times to confirm the offsets matched but will confirm to be safe. And I also confirmed the plug sequence is correct on the dizzy by comparing it to the TD41U (B7 Dizzy) on the pulled motor that was running prior to being pulled a few days ago.
That is another question, is there anything significantly different between the TD41U (non vtec) and the TD42U (vtec) distributors or is it to do with the mounting housing? I didn't check to see if the working TD41U would fit up to the new motor, just thinking about a bad dizzy scenario and what options would be available.
10-14-2018, 09:12 PM
#4
Honda-Tech Member
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) Crank, no start.
TomCat39, the TD-41U non vtec distributor will NOT bolt up to the Z6 cylinder head. Double check the ground from the main engine harness at the thermostat housing and make sure the mounting surface is clean and shiny and the 10mm headed bolt is tight. Also, you mentioned that the spark plugs seem to be dry, yet you have fuel getting to the rail and at the FPR. What fuel rail are you using ??? Stock or aftermarket ??? If stock, are you using a stock pulse dampener and the appropriate washers bolting the fuel feed line to the inlet side of the fuel rail ??? The wrong parts here will drastically limit the volume of fuel allowed into the rail, but will be difficult to detect since the proper volume of fuel comes down the feed line and some is meeting the regulator, but little gets through the injectors so they may appear to be dry and not firing. This is a common problem and is easily overlooked during installation. I have seen multiple cases when a fuel dampener had a standard washer smashed flush into the inlet face of the pulse dampener almost completely covering the 6 to 8 inlet holes. Prying this washer out and installing the dampener with the proper indexed large gap washer cured every car.
10-15-2018, 06:20 PM
#5
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) Crank, no start.
Thank you all for the solid information and feedback! I sincerely appreciate it and I do hope others do to.
After getting home from work, I went and started testing on the car. I noid lighted all 4 injectors one at a time and was not getting any pulses (flashes). I then swapped to the P06 ECU and it did not try and fire and the CEL came on as it was cranking. I did not pull the code, switched back to the P28 ECU and cranked it until the battery started to die. CEL never came on. I tried pulling codes before turning the the key off just in case and the CEL came on solid (service mode).
At this point I went around and started touching my grounds, I wanted to see if they were cool or warm etc. The valve cover ground was cool, the tranny ground was fairly warm (almost too hot) from cranking the car so long and low and behold, the thermostat ground I had tested continuity on (and had continuity) was loose. To my surprise, the wires wiggled around. I had just used the ohm meter and got roughly 100 ohm resistance between the wire spade and the thermostat housing yesterday.
Long story short, I sanded the spade and the housing contact area, wiped it down with brake cleaner on a shop paper towel and bolted it snug. Car fired and bluw some lovely been sitting a long time smoke out the tail pipe. After giving it some gas, she idled just fine and didn't have any alarming sounds through the mechanics stethoscope.
So once again, thank you all for the great feedback.
For future knowledge, if the car had not fired and all the grounds check out, if you do not get any injector pulses on a known good ecu... What is your next step in the diagnostic chain? Are we checking wires for continuity between ECU and distributor or do you do the FSM distributor checks of Coil and Igniter? Or is there a different path one would pursue?
@JRCivic1 The fuel rail looks to be the stock one for both the D16Z6 and the D15B7. To get the head checked out, I pulled the intake manifold off as one unit and didn't touch the fuel rail, injectors or the fuel lines bolted directly to the rail. It was unbolted at the filter and unclamped at the regulator. Smelling fuel, I think I should redo most all the seals in the rail setup including the washers you speak of. Or I might pulled the fuel rail from the B7 I pulled out and just replace the injector seals.
As for the Distributors, can you use the internals from the TD41U and put them into the TD42U casing?
After getting home from work, I went and started testing on the car. I noid lighted all 4 injectors one at a time and was not getting any pulses (flashes). I then swapped to the P06 ECU and it did not try and fire and the CEL came on as it was cranking. I did not pull the code, switched back to the P28 ECU and cranked it until the battery started to die. CEL never came on. I tried pulling codes before turning the the key off just in case and the CEL came on solid (service mode).
At this point I went around and started touching my grounds, I wanted to see if they were cool or warm etc. The valve cover ground was cool, the tranny ground was fairly warm (almost too hot) from cranking the car so long and low and behold, the thermostat ground I had tested continuity on (and had continuity) was loose. To my surprise, the wires wiggled around. I had just used the ohm meter and got roughly 100 ohm resistance between the wire spade and the thermostat housing yesterday.
Long story short, I sanded the spade and the housing contact area, wiped it down with brake cleaner on a shop paper towel and bolted it snug. Car fired and bluw some lovely been sitting a long time smoke out the tail pipe. After giving it some gas, she idled just fine and didn't have any alarming sounds through the mechanics stethoscope.
So once again, thank you all for the great feedback.
For future knowledge, if the car had not fired and all the grounds check out, if you do not get any injector pulses on a known good ecu... What is your next step in the diagnostic chain? Are we checking wires for continuity between ECU and distributor or do you do the FSM distributor checks of Coil and Igniter? Or is there a different path one would pursue?
@JRCivic1 The fuel rail looks to be the stock one for both the D16Z6 and the D15B7. To get the head checked out, I pulled the intake manifold off as one unit and didn't touch the fuel rail, injectors or the fuel lines bolted directly to the rail. It was unbolted at the filter and unclamped at the regulator. Smelling fuel, I think I should redo most all the seals in the rail setup including the washers you speak of. Or I might pulled the fuel rail from the B7 I pulled out and just replace the injector seals.
As for the Distributors, can you use the internals from the TD41U and put them into the TD42U casing?
10-15-2018, 07:41 PM
#6
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) Crank, no start.
i was sitting here last night dying to say thermostat ground. i didn't because you said it had been checked, but it is a very common issue in these cars. i have fixed a handful no starts recently due to the connector becoming brittle and partially breaking, from internal corrosion, etc. this ground , the main relay, and distributors are the cause of no starts in 92-00 Civics more often than not.
10-15-2018, 09:18 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) Crank, no start.
Thank you all for the solid information and feedback! I sincerely appreciate it and I do hope others do to.
After getting home from work, I went and started testing on the car. I noid lighted all 4 injectors one at a time and was not getting any pulses (flashes). I then swapped to the P06 ECU and it did not try and fire and the CEL came on as it was cranking. I did not pull the code, switched back to the P28 ECU and cranked it until the battery started to die. CEL never came on. I tried pulling codes before turning the the key off just in case and the CEL came on solid (service mode).
At this point I went around and started touching my grounds, I wanted to see if they were cool or warm etc. The valve cover ground was cool, the tranny ground was fairly warm (almost too hot) from cranking the car so long and low and behold, the thermostat ground I had tested continuity on (and had continuity) was loose. To my surprise, the wires wiggled around. I had just used the ohm meter and got roughly 100 ohm resistance between the wire spade and the thermostat housing yesterday.
Long story short, I sanded the spade and the housing contact area, wiped it down with brake cleaner on a shop paper towel and bolted it snug. Car fired and bluw some lovely been sitting a long time smoke out the tail pipe. After giving it some gas, she idled just fine and didn't have any alarming sounds through the mechanics stethoscope.
So once again, thank you all for the great feedback.
For future knowledge, if the car had not fired and all the grounds check out, if you do not get any injector pulses on a known good ecu... What is your next step in the diagnostic chain? Are we checking wires for continuity between ECU and distributor or do you do the FSM distributor checks of Coil and Igniter? Or is there a different path one would pursue?
@JRCivic1 The fuel rail looks to be the stock one for both the D16Z6 and the D15B7. To get the head checked out, I pulled the intake manifold off as one unit and didn't touch the fuel rail, injectors or the fuel lines bolted directly to the rail. It was unbolted at the filter and unclamped at the regulator. Smelling fuel, I think I should redo most all the seals in the rail setup including the washers you speak of. Or I might pulled the fuel rail from the B7 I pulled out and just replace the injector seals. If it idles well now, this is likely not part of your problem. You can check it anyway just for preventative maintenance, but if you drive it down the road full throttle and it runs good... it's fine.
As for the Distributors, can you use the internals from the TD41U and put them into the TD42U casing? That sounds like a lot of work if you are talking about changing shafts and pickups... but I do believe it works.
After getting home from work, I went and started testing on the car. I noid lighted all 4 injectors one at a time and was not getting any pulses (flashes). I then swapped to the P06 ECU and it did not try and fire and the CEL came on as it was cranking. I did not pull the code, switched back to the P28 ECU and cranked it until the battery started to die. CEL never came on. I tried pulling codes before turning the the key off just in case and the CEL came on solid (service mode).
At this point I went around and started touching my grounds, I wanted to see if they were cool or warm etc. The valve cover ground was cool, the tranny ground was fairly warm (almost too hot) from cranking the car so long and low and behold, the thermostat ground I had tested continuity on (and had continuity) was loose. To my surprise, the wires wiggled around. I had just used the ohm meter and got roughly 100 ohm resistance between the wire spade and the thermostat housing yesterday.
Long story short, I sanded the spade and the housing contact area, wiped it down with brake cleaner on a shop paper towel and bolted it snug. Car fired and bluw some lovely been sitting a long time smoke out the tail pipe. After giving it some gas, she idled just fine and didn't have any alarming sounds through the mechanics stethoscope.
So once again, thank you all for the great feedback.
For future knowledge, if the car had not fired and all the grounds check out, if you do not get any injector pulses on a known good ecu... What is your next step in the diagnostic chain? Are we checking wires for continuity between ECU and distributor or do you do the FSM distributor checks of Coil and Igniter? Or is there a different path one would pursue?
@JRCivic1 The fuel rail looks to be the stock one for both the D16Z6 and the D15B7. To get the head checked out, I pulled the intake manifold off as one unit and didn't touch the fuel rail, injectors or the fuel lines bolted directly to the rail. It was unbolted at the filter and unclamped at the regulator. Smelling fuel, I think I should redo most all the seals in the rail setup including the washers you speak of. Or I might pulled the fuel rail from the B7 I pulled out and just replace the injector seals. If it idles well now, this is likely not part of your problem. You can check it anyway just for preventative maintenance, but if you drive it down the road full throttle and it runs good... it's fine.
As for the Distributors, can you use the internals from the TD41U and put them into the TD42U casing? That sounds like a lot of work if you are talking about changing shafts and pickups... but I do believe it works.
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10-16-2018, 05:21 AM
#8
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) Crank, no start.
I did check it and had continuity, it also didn't move when I was pressing the probe into it and into the housing. I read 100 ohm resistance. That's where I was fooled into thinking it was secured fully.
I learned a valuable lesson.
I learned a valuable lesson.
10-16-2018, 07:53 AM
#9
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) Crank, no start.
To verify my understanding, answering my own question in the scenario I painted....
If you don't have injector pulse and all 3 engine grounds are connected securely and have continuity at the location on a known good ECU.
I would then be checking for continuity of the thermostat ground wires to the ECU?
If you don't have injector pulse and all 3 engine grounds are connected securely and have continuity at the location on a known good ECU.
I would then be checking for continuity of the thermostat ground wires to the ECU?
10-16-2018, 02:05 PM
#11
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) Crank, no start.
Thank you!
10-19-2018, 04:56 PM
#12
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) slight overheat?
Hi guys,
So got the motor swap done, coolant purged (twice), all fluids topped up etc.
I swapped out the fan thermo switch from the B7 that never had issues due to this mild overheating issue. The car, especially if ran hard for a moment, when idling... The temp needle goes form just below half way almost to 3/4 of the way before the fan kicks on and the temp drops back down to half way.
Brand new thermostat installed. Brand new water pump installed. Both thermo switches act this way. And all hoses are hot when this is happening (both main rad hoses as well as both heater core hoses).
I've never seen this before and I'm not sure why the fan doesn't kick on before the temp gauge starts creeping. I did replace the gauge temp sensor with one from a B7 as I figured the one in the head was overheated with the engine from all the evidence I found when going over the motor. I've checked and almost all the sensors share the same part number between the B7 and Z6.
Once up to operating temp, it's less noticeable just idling but still you can watch the needle rise and drop every fan cycle. If I near redline it for a second the needle rises a bit farther before the fan kicks in and drops it back down.
Does this sound normal?
So got the motor swap done, coolant purged (twice), all fluids topped up etc.
I swapped out the fan thermo switch from the B7 that never had issues due to this mild overheating issue. The car, especially if ran hard for a moment, when idling... The temp needle goes form just below half way almost to 3/4 of the way before the fan kicks on and the temp drops back down to half way.
Brand new thermostat installed. Brand new water pump installed. Both thermo switches act this way. And all hoses are hot when this is happening (both main rad hoses as well as both heater core hoses).
I've never seen this before and I'm not sure why the fan doesn't kick on before the temp gauge starts creeping. I did replace the gauge temp sensor with one from a B7 as I figured the one in the head was overheated with the engine from all the evidence I found when going over the motor. I've checked and almost all the sensors share the same part number between the B7 and Z6.
Once up to operating temp, it's less noticeable just idling but still you can watch the needle rise and drop every fan cycle. If I near redline it for a second the needle rises a bit farther before the fan kicks in and drops it back down.
Does this sound normal?
10-19-2018, 08:51 PM
#14
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
I resurfaced the head. I didn't check the block. That maybe a gross error.
I will drive it a bit and do a block test on it as well as watch the reservoir.
I assume it was overheated as the head was warped, .002 slid under the straight edge on parts, as well as the timing belt cover was malformed a touch and had severe brittle spots. I had to buy a new one from Honda.
I will drive it a bit and do a block test on it as well as watch the reservoir.
I assume it was overheated as the head was warped, .002 slid under the straight edge on parts, as well as the timing belt cover was malformed a touch and had severe brittle spots. I had to buy a new one from Honda.
10-20-2018, 09:25 AM
#16
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
I am going to merge my threads and rename it the 93 DX Z6 swap....
I just got to take it for a spin and I didn't notice any overheat on the temp gauge or needle fluctuations. I am thinking what I was witnessing was hard running behavior with a "bad rad cap" scenario as the cap was off while I was burping it. With the cap closed today after doing the solid burp yesterday, it seemed fine. Including after the hwy excursion and back to city driving.
What I did find is I had no speedo. And after getting up to speed on the hwy, the CEL came on. I hopped off, putted home and got Code 17, vehicle speed sensor.
Transmission hasn't changed so I believe it has to be from the engine harness to the shock tower where the issue lies unless there is some way I can break the sensor in the tranny by inserting the axles.
The adventure continues... Doesn't help I forgot to torque the passenger torque mount nut and it flew off making a bit of ruckus just as the engine light came on right as I got up to cruising speed lol. I must say, this swap has been the largest learning experience to date, the others went too smooth to learn much.
I just got to take it for a spin and I didn't notice any overheat on the temp gauge or needle fluctuations. I am thinking what I was witnessing was hard running behavior with a "bad rad cap" scenario as the cap was off while I was burping it. With the cap closed today after doing the solid burp yesterday, it seemed fine. Including after the hwy excursion and back to city driving.
What I did find is I had no speedo. And after getting up to speed on the hwy, the CEL came on. I hopped off, putted home and got Code 17, vehicle speed sensor.
Transmission hasn't changed so I believe it has to be from the engine harness to the shock tower where the issue lies unless there is some way I can break the sensor in the tranny by inserting the axles.
The adventure continues... Doesn't help I forgot to torque the passenger torque mount nut and it flew off making a bit of ruckus just as the engine light came on right as I got up to cruising speed lol. I must say, this swap has been the largest learning experience to date, the others went too smooth to learn much.
10-20-2018, 03:35 PM
#17
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
I'm happy to report this was an easy fix and I have a speedo again.
Pulling out the ETM I learned the speed sensor plug goes to the G101 (Thermostat ground) and then the power and ECU wire go under the engine to the opposite side shock tower 14 pin plug, dead center second from the top row pins. I was getting geared up to do some continuity testing when I looked at the VSS female (engine harness side) plug to see crap loads of green. Was debating to mutilate the B7 harness and thought better of it. Ran to the pick a part and grabbed a pristine one from a 95 for 5 bucks and change. Some solder work, heat shrink wrap and electrical tape and I now have an extended VSS plug and a speedo again.
I will take it for a longer drive tomorrow and be sure all the kinks are worked out.
And yes, I put another torque mount washer and nut on the driver side and this time torqued it to the 47 ft-lbs as required. I also redid the strut bolts as I believe I forgot to load the suspension when I torqued them putting the car back together. This time the suspension was loaded before torquing to spec.
Well see how this little knocky motor goes. I can't hear anything on the bottom but I do think there is a fair amount of piston slap or the LMA's are noisy. I get to watch oil consumption and keep my ear open on the car but I think I got a good little highway commuter for my 90KM each way daily commute.
I'm hoping this is the end of this thread for now. Cheers everyone.
Pulling out the ETM I learned the speed sensor plug goes to the G101 (Thermostat ground) and then the power and ECU wire go under the engine to the opposite side shock tower 14 pin plug, dead center second from the top row pins. I was getting geared up to do some continuity testing when I looked at the VSS female (engine harness side) plug to see crap loads of green. Was debating to mutilate the B7 harness and thought better of it. Ran to the pick a part and grabbed a pristine one from a 95 for 5 bucks and change. Some solder work, heat shrink wrap and electrical tape and I now have an extended VSS plug and a speedo again.
I will take it for a longer drive tomorrow and be sure all the kinks are worked out.
And yes, I put another torque mount washer and nut on the driver side and this time torqued it to the 47 ft-lbs as required. I also redid the strut bolts as I believe I forgot to load the suspension when I torqued them putting the car back together. This time the suspension was loaded before torquing to spec.
Well see how this little knocky motor goes. I can't hear anything on the bottom but I do think there is a fair amount of piston slap or the LMA's are noisy. I get to watch oil consumption and keep my ear open on the car but I think I got a good little highway commuter for my 90KM each way daily commute.
I'm hoping this is the end of this thread for now. Cheers everyone.
10-21-2018, 09:28 AM
#18
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
Update - Took it for a really good drive today, highway and city, never saw a single issue, ran pretty strong and the DX automatic transmission seems to be a very good mate to the Z6 auto ECU.
Once home and in the drive way I sat and let it idle after driving for a good 45 minutes to an hour and I watched the temp gauge creep up to a little under 3/4 (definitely over half), fans kick on and it drops back down to just below half. Also, so far, negative results on block test and reservoir has been acting normally, down when cold and up when hot but not over filled ever.
I did have a thought. I wasn't able to use the Z6 4-2-1 header as I have a broken O2 sensor and an easy out snapped in it. I'm currently using the B7 super short 4-1 header and the single tube B pipe to catalytic converter. I was wondering if the different scavaging abilities of the smaller engine header is causing the Z6 head to heat up idling a bit more before the cooling system (fan) kicks in to bring it back to normal?
Not sure if anyone has ever run a stock B7/B8 short runner 4-1 cast iron header on a Z6 before.
Once home and in the drive way I sat and let it idle after driving for a good 45 minutes to an hour and I watched the temp gauge creep up to a little under 3/4 (definitely over half), fans kick on and it drops back down to just below half. Also, so far, negative results on block test and reservoir has been acting normally, down when cold and up when hot but not over filled ever.
I did have a thought. I wasn't able to use the Z6 4-2-1 header as I have a broken O2 sensor and an easy out snapped in it. I'm currently using the B7 super short 4-1 header and the single tube B pipe to catalytic converter. I was wondering if the different scavaging abilities of the smaller engine header is causing the Z6 head to heat up idling a bit more before the cooling system (fan) kicks in to bring it back to normal?
Not sure if anyone has ever run a stock B7/B8 short runner 4-1 cast iron header on a Z6 before.
10-21-2018, 11:54 AM
#19
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
I can't say for sure that I have used that header on a z6, but over the years I have used d series stock headers interchangeably with no issues at all. The 92-95 auto transmissions are the same, z6/b7.
10-21-2018, 12:34 PM
#20
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
Overheating only when the car is sitting still is most likely a fan problem.
Jump the fan switch and confirm the fan starts instantly every time you turn the key on. A worn fan motor will start intermittently. A bad relay would do the same. Test drive with fan running all the time and see if there is any overheating. You could swap the radiator fan relay with one of the A/C relays.
Jump the fan switch and confirm the fan starts instantly every time you turn the key on. A worn fan motor will start intermittently. A bad relay would do the same. Test drive with fan running all the time and see if there is any overheating. You could swap the radiator fan relay with one of the A/C relays.
10-21-2018, 08:36 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
TomCat, what thermostat are you using ??? Aftermarket ones typically cause issues... and deleting one causes more issues because both cases cause the bypass circuit to function improperly.
10-21-2018, 08:40 PM
#22
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
NTC Thermostat 78øC/172øF
78*/172* Celsius.Part Number: NTC1711725 Manufacturer: NTC - TAMA
Made in Japan
Thermostat is operating accordingly. Bottom hose gets hot but not immediately, car has to warm up etc.
I didn't mess with the car today, needed a break being I've been focused on the car for the past couple of weeks pretty solid. I will be looking up the pins to see how to short the fan so I can do the test mk378 mentioned. I'm skeptical there will be any issues but need to rule it out.
This car doesn't have AC.
10-22-2018, 05:13 PM
#24
Hysterically Calm
Thread Starter
Re: 93 Civic DX (D16Z6 swap) - Trials and Tribulations! What's next?
Thank you, I still looked at the circuit for understanding. I wasn't sure if the thermo switch grounded through it's housing.
I was afraid of finding these results as it would be the simple solution/fix but I'm not being blessed with that at the moment.....
I jumped the fan thermo switch female plug and the fan started every time I turned the key to on without any hesitation that I could notice for ten tries. It also started immediately when I pulled the jumper and put it back in with the engine running, did this 2 or 3 times. I also looked at the plug and did not see any corrosion or other physical problems with the plug.
I then held the rpm at 2000 rpm with the plug back on the thermo switch to get the bottom hose hot again, then jumped the fan switch again, got int he car and brought RPM back up to about 2300 or so emulating driving on the freeway, held it for a solid 2 minutes, then let it just sit and idle for 3 or 4 minutes and the temp gauge never moved from where it normally resides.
Of note I just got home from my 90 KM commute and in the city and a longer red light I noticed the gauge just start to creep and the light went green and we started moving and it went back to normal. Didn't even hit half way but I usually see the 3 horizontal marks on the temp symbol where it rose and I only saw two until we got down the road to cool off the system again.
I will test the thermo switch I pulled out of the car as the behavior seems to be the same regardless which one is in the car. The one in the car now came from the B7 I pulled out that never had an issue even in summer.
You said usually to do with the fan, it seems that maybe ruled out, so what other things can cause overheat when not moving? I did notice the exhaust manifold doesn't have a rear shield on it like the D16Z6 4-2-1 manifold does. Would this have any impact?
Overheating only when the car is sitting still is most likely a fan problem.
Jump the fan switch and confirm the fan starts instantly every time you turn the key on. A worn fan motor will start intermittently. A bad relay would do the same. Test drive with fan running all the time and see if there is any overheating. You could swap the radiator fan relay with one of the A/C relays.
Jump the fan switch and confirm the fan starts instantly every time you turn the key on. A worn fan motor will start intermittently. A bad relay would do the same. Test drive with fan running all the time and see if there is any overheating. You could swap the radiator fan relay with one of the A/C relays.
I jumped the fan thermo switch female plug and the fan started every time I turned the key to on without any hesitation that I could notice for ten tries. It also started immediately when I pulled the jumper and put it back in with the engine running, did this 2 or 3 times. I also looked at the plug and did not see any corrosion or other physical problems with the plug.
I then held the rpm at 2000 rpm with the plug back on the thermo switch to get the bottom hose hot again, then jumped the fan switch again, got int he car and brought RPM back up to about 2300 or so emulating driving on the freeway, held it for a solid 2 minutes, then let it just sit and idle for 3 or 4 minutes and the temp gauge never moved from where it normally resides.
Of note I just got home from my 90 KM commute and in the city and a longer red light I noticed the gauge just start to creep and the light went green and we started moving and it went back to normal. Didn't even hit half way but I usually see the 3 horizontal marks on the temp symbol where it rose and I only saw two until we got down the road to cool off the system again.
I will test the thermo switch I pulled out of the car as the behavior seems to be the same regardless which one is in the car. The one in the car now came from the B7 I pulled out that never had an issue even in summer.
You said usually to do with the fan, it seems that maybe ruled out, so what other things can cause overheat when not moving? I did notice the exhaust manifold doesn't have a rear shield on it like the D16Z6 4-2-1 manifold does. Would this have any impact?