problem_si

Ok, so after about a week in the driveway, with multimeter and service manual in hand...I am officially stumped.

Problem: Sunroof on 92 si just decided to stop working one day.

Tried:
The 50a, 30a, and 20a fuses are all good. And I've checked voltages coming in at the three pin connector at the fuseblock. Bench checked the relays, as well as the switch. checked the loops for continuity, all look fine, and used a voltmeter to watch relays change state under power.

I did find the wires in the A-pillar hacked up under a lump of electrical tape, so I soldered them properly. After this...no change. Again, continuity is good.

I even supplied my own 12 v across the Green/red and Green/yellow wires and watched the sunroof operate as if nothing was wrong...in both directions.

Sooooo....if everything "looks" normal...why the hell won't my sunroof open?


Man...I'm at my wits end...I could really use some help...

street_racer_271

iTrader: (8)

have you tried replacing the switch?

Former User

See diagram below. What results do you get at each step (1-6)?

problem_si

I did that before, but just to make sure...I just tried again. This is what I found:

Jumpered yellow, and yellow/red terminals to ground, you can hear respective relays click...no movement. Blue terminal no click, no movement.

Checked for continuity from switch connector to relay connection and connector by tilt sensor, good continuity. Yellow, yellow/red, and blue all tested good for continuity.

Ground is fine.

Former User

Useful information^

Unplug the open relay and then use your multimeter to test whether the Wht wire terminal in the wire harness connector has battery voltage using the Blk wire terminal as ground. Key can be off for this test. Post the results.

problem_si

I assume you mean the connector that clips into the relay.

I did them both individually, and for each relay its showing 12v to ground with that particular relay disconnected.

I've been using that wiring diagram on the right for the better part of the week. I'm seeing the damn thing in my sleep.

Former User

Correct.

Both relay connectors? If so, good. Both tests show no problem.

Now plug both relays back in and unplug the switch connector. Do you have access to the motor plugs? The next tests are done there.

problem_si

I do have access...I took damn near everything off to access the wires / motor etc...

Former User

Good.

Test 1
Also unplug the 2P motor connector. In the unplugged switch connector, short the Yel wire terminal to ground to activate the open relay. Now measure voltage to body ground at the Grn/Red wire terminal of the unplugged motor connector (wire harness side). Post the voltage reading. You should read battery voltage. Also verify that voltage at the Grn/Red wire terminal is lost when the Yel wire in the switch connector is ungrounded.

problem_si

I did this test slightly different by supplying 12v to the Green/yellow and Green/red wires on the relay connection (with relays disconnected of course). Motor and glass moved smoothly in both directions.

(referring to the picture above)

I'll try the other 2p test tomorrow...Time to call it a night. Thanks for your help so far.

Former User

Test 2
Same as Test 1 except in the unplugged switch connector, instead short the Yel/Red wire terminal to ground to activate the close relay. Now measure voltage to body ground at the Grn/Yel wire terminal of the unplugged motor connector (wire harness side). Post the voltage reading. You should read battery voltage. Also verify that voltage at the Grn/Yel wire terminal is lost when the Yel/Red wire in the switch connector is ungrounded.

Former User

Please do Tests 1 and 2 exactly as I described. They will tell you whether the relays actually work properly while installed in the circuit, and also test for a broken wire.

At this early juncture, it appears that the slide problem may be one or both relays. However, it's important to test them while installed in the circuit.

The tilt function requires the Yel wire slide function to work, so the tilt function may be solved after the slide problem is.

Just to clarify the test you did in quotes above -- you unplugged both relays and then supplied 12V to the Grn/Red terminal and ground to the Grn/Yel terminal and vice versa, right? Or did you do different tests?

problem_si

Ok...here we go.


Hooked 12v source directly up to motor connector. smooth operation of sunroof motor and glass in both directions.


Shorted yellow at harness side of motor connection to ground. Heard open relay click. Measured Green/red to ground, found 12v. Removed jumper from yellow, 12v lost at Green/red.


Shorted yellow/red at switch connector to ground, heard close relay click. Measured 12v from Green/yellow to ground. Voltage lost when jumper is removed.

problem_si

Yes, I did remove them. At the time I did not have connectors to hook to the pins, So I moved up the line so I could cheat a little. No matter, I made a few test leads up in my spare time today to complete the aforementioned test.

Former User

Hooked 12v source directly up to motor connector. smooth operation of sunroof motor and glass in both directions.

How exactly were these^ tests done? Both relays removed and you supplied both voltage and ground or one relay removed and you supplied voltage to only the disconnected relay connector?



Shorted yellow at harness side of motor connection to ground. Heard open relay click. Measured Green/red to ground, found 12v. Removed jumper from yellow, 12v lost at Green/red.

I assume this was a typo and you meant "switch" here. Also, Grn/Red at disconnected motor connector, right?


Shorted yellow/red at switch connector to ground, heard close relay click. Measured 12v from Green/yellow to ground. Voltage lost when jumper is removed.[/QUOTE]

Obviously, no problems in any tests here.

Former User

Now test whether both relays provide ground in their non-activated state.

Test 3
Unplug the 4P switch connector and 2P motor connector but leave the relay connectors plugged in.

Do nothing to the switch connector.

Test each terminal in the unplugged motor connector (wire harness side) for continuity to body ground. There should be.

problem_si

I have a small odyssey battery meant for another project. I connected it directly to the motor side of the motor connection. Reversed polarity and repeated.

Yes, that is what I meant. Sorry, its been a long day. I actually have to go to sleep now to turn around and go back to work at 1am.

Former User

Okay. I understand.

I posted another test (Test 3). I may post more. Just get to them when you can.

problem_si

Thanks a ton man...and thanks for your patience.

Former User

Test 4
This test assumes that the moonroof is currently in the closed position.

a. Remove 30A fuse 1 from the dash fuse box.

b. Unplug the 4P switch connector.

c. Plug in 2P motor connector.

d. Unplug the open relay. In the unplugged open relay connector, rig a jumper wire to short the Wht wire terminal to the Grn/Red wire terminal.

e. Unplug the close relay. In the unplugged close relay connector, rig a jumper wire to short the Blk wire terminal to the Grn/Yel wire terminal.

f. When fuse 1 is re-installed, does the moonroof close?

g. Remove fuse 1.


Test 5
With moonroof closed, same as Test 4, except skip step e.

problem_si

Test 3:

Found good continuity from both Green/red and Green/yellow to ground

Test 4:
Jumpered the relays as described, as I start to remove the fuse, the sunroof opens. With the fuse all the way out, it stops.

Test 5:
Omitted step e, nothing happens.

However, what happened in test 4 sparked my curiosity. I took a lot closer look at the socket for fuse #1. It seems to be less "tight" of a fit than some of the others. There is also a small amount of oxidation. So I went back to test 4 and wiggled the fuse in the socket...and the sunroof operates intermittently.

you sneaky little....

Could it be as simple as a loose connection at the fuse block?
Being that its 24 degrees and approaching 11pm, I'll chase down that lead tomorrow.

Former User

Install a new fuse 1. That could contribute to or be the problem.

However, Test 5 (close relay plugged in), like Test 4, also should have opened the moonroof. This result suggests lack of contact of the Blk wire and/or Grn/Yel wire terminal in the closed relay connector with corresponding contacts in the relay. However, this contradicts the results in Test 3, so you may want to repeat the tests. Perhaps poor contacts in connectors is a general problem in the circuit.

problem_si

I tried another 30a fuse I have. Same result.

I'm gonna see if I can make up some leads tomorrow that will make better contact.

Also, I made an error. I did not plug the closing relay back in. I will repeat the test again tomorrow afternoon when my brain is not fried.

problem_si

I repeated the test. Test 5 did in fact open the sunroof as you said.

I'm going to try to clean up the fuse block somehow...possibly some alcohol or something. I'm assuming it would be a good idea to unplug the 50a fuse in the engine bay so I don't inadvertently short anything out etc...

Former User

Yeah, but remove the 80A fuse instead.

Might be interesting to close the moonroof, plug all the connectors back in, and test whether it now all works with the switch. If not, try wiggling fuse 1 to see if it then works.