JSchell1309

I pulled code 9 which after a search, the popular answer seems to be replace distributor and check timing with a timing light. My question is there a good place to start in diagnosing this problem? I had found another thread HERE and mainly this post stood out:

The first line there alerted me. I noticed today as the first day driving around that it burns oil like there is no tomorrow if I am in a low gear and at high RPM. Is there a way to verify it is the valve stem seals? That way I don't waste time and money replacing my distributor if it won't fix the problem.

Just looking for advice on where to start. Really want to keep this stock little gem running for a looooong time.

JSchell1309

Bump help a noob please

civicb1812345

way to test valve stem seals if it smokes on start up and when its warm it doesnt, if it smokes all the time its piston rings. does it run fine besides the code?

civicb1812345

i would start with replacing the distributor and check timing though may not be the problem, i had a crx with the same problem for 6 months couldnt figure it out so i sold it, hopefully yours isnt as bad.

Former User

Code 9 - reset ECU to see whether code returns.

How do you know the engine burns oil?

JSchell1309

Thanks for the responses guys.

It does not smoke on start up or at idle, warm or cold. It seems to only smoke when I am in gear and under a load. Say 2nd gear and trying to pull out into a lane and giving it a good amount of throttle, I can look in the rear view mirror and there is a good sized white cloud behind me.

Yeah I just wanted to diagnose the problem before I throw parts and money at it.

Off topic: I like your location haha, I'm located in Kansas City MO. What "shithole" are you from, there are plenty in this state

I have reset the ECU 2 times now and the code keeps coming back. I cleared it once by pulling the 7.5A fuse under the hood and letting it sit for 5 minutes, and the other time I removed the Negative battery terminal and pushed brakes and let it sit for 5 minutes. Both times the CEL comes back after driving on the highway for ~20 minutes then coming to a rest it turns on. Every time it is still the Code 9.

I cleared it again yesterday and it did NOT come on today after my 30 mile highway commute.

I can tell it's burning oil under load in any gear when I try to get on it. I have seen it in 2nd, 3rd and 4th the most. Say I am trying to pass someone on the highway, small sprint from 60-75 mph or so, I will downshift and give it more throttle, not full throttle, and I can look behind me and its a good size cloud of white smoke.

It seems to burn more in this manner when the CEL is on vs. when it is off. Maybe that's just in my head, but when the CEL is on, it seems to smoke from normal driving, like pulling away from a stop light. Mind you, I am not "racing" this little car. It doesn't have a tach but by sound I would say I'm trying to shift around 3-4k rpm and get good MPG.

When I first purchased from the previous owner I took it on some backroads for some spirited driving when it was dark out. So I could not see if it was burning, but when I came back it was over a quart low. That may not have been from burning, may have been low before I bought it.

Other than the smoking it seems to drive alright. It does get some random "hiccups" on the highway. I will be maintaining speed at 75 mph at steady throttle and the car will seem to have a hiccup, best way to describe it. No sound, just kind of lurches or falls back for a second and then picks right back up. Its almost instant. Not sure if that is related to the CEL or if it's a separate problem.

Sorry for the long post, hopefully I described it well enough.

Former User

Ohm test the CYL sensor in the distributor and test the 2 CYL sensor wires for an open or short.

White smoke is a sign of burning coolant, whereas blue smoke is a sign of burning oil.

JSchell1309

I found your help in the thread HERE so I could be sure I was performing the correct procedure.

I tested resistance between the two pins and it tested at 395 ohms, then tested with red probe on pin and black probe on engine block and got no reading on either pin. My multimeter says "1" if the probes are in the open and it read "1" when I tested continuity on each pin. I am understanding that as saying there is no continuity break.

I am using the Extech Instruments Multimeter 410:


I am not sure on exact color of what is burning, I just notice a cloud. I have noticed no coolant leaks, no over heating issues, and the overflow tank has remained steady since I have owned the car, neither rising not falling.

Thank you for the prompt help, what is the next step, as I understand this shows the Cyp sensor is not the issue?

I have also found this flow chart that seems to be what you are recommending:



Next it seems I should test connections on the ECM (ECU) harness, and not the ECM (ECU) itself?

Former User

With the distributor connector plugged in, measure resistance between B11 and B12 of unplugged ECU connector B. If resistance is within spec, then short test (continuity to body ground) B11 and B12 individually.

JSchell1309

Want to make sure I am reading continuity correctly this is what my meter says:

So I am looking to a reading on "1" and it will be good, and if it beeps then it means it is bad.

JSchell1309

I tested the resistance across the two pins on the farthest right of this connector, between top and bottom and they fell within the range at 395. Continuity test did not beep on either pin tested to a ground.

Next I plugged the distributor connector back together and pulled out my ECU.







Want to verify b11 is white and b12 is orange? Just making sure I have the connector oriented correctly, if I flip it over then one of the two pins I would need to test are empty.

Resistance across the two pins is again in range at 450 ohms and neither pin set off the alarm on the continuity test against ground.

Former User

Looks like you did the tests correctly. It's a mild concern that the resistance reading at the distributor plug is 50 Ohms lower than at the ECU plug. The two readings should be nearly identical. There may be a bad terminal contact in the distributor plug or another plug that lies between the distributor plug and the ECU plug.

JSchell1309

395 is what I tested when it was cooled down earlier in the day. Now that you mentioned I went out and tested all plugs and all readings are about the same around 450 ohms. Sorry about that.

Not sure if temp would effect resistivity in a wire, or if I didn't make good contact when I tested earlier in the day.

So following the flow chart is ECU swap next? I found another thread where you had helped out, and the Cyp sensor had a good reading but when he took it apart it was damaged and causing the problem. Hope to figure this out.

Thanks again for all your quick help!

Former User

You could repeat your tests a few times and also remove the distributor to inspect the CYP sensor. Also look for oil or red dust inside the distributor. If all looks good and code 9 returns, then try swapping in a known good ECU. Good luck.

JSchell1309

I repeated the tests multiple times to make sure I was making good contact with all the pins. All tests repeated the same at 450 ohms and no discontinuity.

If I mark the position of the distributor could I re-install it without having to time it again? If not I will have to drop by auto store and see if they rent a timing light. Any good write ups on removal that point out what the CYP sensor looks like? I will do some searching, see what I can dig up.

If it is distributor, I know OEM is the best way to go. Are there any trustworthy OEM suppliers online, or will I have to go through a dealership. I know they have ridiculous mark up and some say a distributor is $300+ there... that's nuts.

I have a local friend who has an EG that I can try to swap ECUs with.

Will post up what I find. Hopefully I can get this resolved. Car only has 68,xxx on it, want to keep it going for a long time.

Former User

Correct.

See diagram below.

Excellent

JSchell1309

Excellent! Thank again Ron, you are a life saver. Very happy I found this site.

civicb1812345

well im from union, about 200 miles away from you lol. and white smoke coming out of the exhuast means coolant, which is not good, dont buy a new distributor just find a know good used one and try it, whens the last time the car has had a tuneup?

hell0curry

Any luck with dixing your cel code 9 problem? Im have the same situation.

HondaPartsHero

What tests have you performed?

hell0curry

I have done an ohm test on the sensors in the dizzy and all seem to be in spec, cleared the ecu twice with both haveing the cel come back on after a 20 minute drive, also with the cel on i check the resistance in the sensors and they were still fine. The thing is thou with my cel being there or not i have no issues with performance, runs great still, its just that damn cel scares me regardless want to get it fixed asap.

JSchell1309

Hey sorry I haven't posted in here. I actually tracked down a few distributors locally, yet no one was ever able to meet up and sell one. I ended up taking this one apart, cleaned up the inside, and put it back together making sure the rotor was nice and tight.

I have put ~500 miles on it and it as not thrown the cel since.

I just finished doing a quick tune up, with new NGK spark plugs, Denso wires, Felpro valve cover gasket, and PCV Valve. Hopefully should stop leaking oil into the spark plug tubes now. When I pulled the old ones out they were dripping with oil.

hell0curry

Do you suggest i do the same, cleaning the dizzy and what not. Ironically at this very moment im stuck on the side of the road because my car just died, and i have a feeling its because of that cel code 9. Pretty shitty, but like you i did and ohm test and all came out in spec, so i wonder if taking it apart and cleaning it will fix my problem.

JSchell1309

Just wanted to update this. The CEL Code 9 had returned. As stated, I took apart the stock distributor and it looked pretty gummed up and some of the hardware inside was rusted, also red dust all over the place. I took the gasket out and it was pretty damaged. I am assuming this allowed a bunch of junk to get it and cause the sensor to throw the CEL.

I pulled a distributor out of a working car in a local pick and pull, and replaced the cap, rotor, and seals with Bosch TEC replacements from RockAuto. Replaced, set timing correctly with the service plug shorted and the engine warm.

This got rid of the CEL and fixed the stumble on the highway. Oil leak into the spark plugs has been fixed as well with the Felpro Valve cover gasket.

Thanks for all the help everyone, especially Ron for helping a new guy out. :thumb up:

Sorry this is late. Hope you got this figured out by now. If now I would recommend you pull an ECU and a distributor from a running car that is not having problems. Replace one at a time and see if that fixes the problem. I did the distributor before I tried my buddy's ECU. Distributor seems to have done the trick. Good luck man!

hell0curry

Thanks. Yeah the next day i bought a brand new dizzy and it fires right up no codes after.