89d15crx

Hello everyone. My name is Rob and I've been a member here for quite a while and changed my name a couple of times but I just recently bought a Honda after being on a hiatus for a few years. Anyway, I bought a 97 Civic EX Coupe. I believe it's an EJ9. The kid that I got it from put a 3 stage D15B VTEC block and a Y7 head because he didn't have a VTEC head and a JDM Del Solar Si trans in it. When I got it, it was running. I had a Z6 head laying around from my buddy's Z6 turbo 94 EJ coupe from when he scattered the block. Well I put the Z6 head on the JDM D15B block and used a MLS head gasket for a Y8, the Y8 ECU, wiring harness, intake manifold, and a cheap ebay header and for the life of me I cannot get it into time. I've read where people are saying that you need to use the Y8 timing gear and I believe that the guy that I got it from swapped all of the crankshaft timing gear and CPS over to the D15B block. No matter what I do the son of a bitch just will not fire over. When I crank it, it sounds like it's 180 degrees out of time, so I release the tensioner again, take the belt off of the camshaft gear, rotate the crankshaft over one full revolution, tighten everything back down, and the same thing happens, no compression and what sounds like compression being released into the exhaust. It's really starting to stress me out because I know that it's something stupid or something that I'm overlooking but I can't figure it out. I've been working on cars for 20 years now and I've set the timing on many engines and built many engines but this thing has me stumped. BTW, I am using the D16y8 dizzy with two bolts for now. If anyone has any ideas, please chime in. I could really use some insight. Thanks guys!

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

Underneath the engine code on the block, what is the serial number?

Can you take a picture of the crankshaft sprocket?


Not sure if you knew this or not, but the JDM D15B head casting is the same as the Z6, the cam gear is also the same as the Z6, but the key way inside the camshaft is actually about 15° off. The cam is keyed differently because the block height is different on the D15B block. To correct this, people have used a Y8 cam gear on the Z6 head when mating to the D15B block.

Cam gears aside, when you moved your cam timing 180° off, there's a good chance you bent your valves while cranking over. At this junction, I would move the crankshaft to TDC, pull the valve cover off and rotate the camshaft until both cam lobes on cylinder #1 are in the position of the compression stroke, then proceed to do a leak down test on that one cylinder to determine if the valves are bent. Or I suppose an easier way would be to remove the camshaft completely and check all four cylinders at the same time for leak down.

89d15crx

Engine code is D15B and serial is 2813022. Are you saying that the timing marks are in different places when you use the Y8 cam gear? All I had seen was that people used the Y8 gear to make up for the lack in timing belt tension but it's the same size as every other D series cam gear, I never understood why you need the Y8 gear. I have two Y8 heads out in the garage but they both have vent valves. Yes I did know that the D15B head is the same as the D16Z6. I had a D15B in my 92 EG8.

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slomofo

iTrader: (1)

I wanted the serial number to determine year of the block.

I wanted pic of the crankshaft sprocket to see if it was original to the block or came off something else.



So... your block came out of a 93 Civic.
Your crank sprocket and oil pump came off of a 96-00 Civic.
I'm going to assume the tensioner came from the 96-00 as well.

What I would suggest doing is taking a Z6/Z1 tensioner and fitting it to the car, Y8 cam gear, and a 103 tooth timing belt from a Z1 because of your shorter deck height.

Set the timing up as you normally would, DO NOT PUT THE CAM GEAR 180° off.

Your timing will be fine at that point. You can verify your timing is correct with the valve cover off by rotating 45° and looking at the position of the cam lobes. So TDC and timing gear UP the lobes should be off the valves of Cyl #1, 45° counterclockwise and Cyl #3 valves will be shut, another 45° for Cylinder #4, etc. .

Once timing is set, don't mess with it anymore, it should be fine from here. If the car still doesn't start, do not assume it's the timing belt. I still suspect that your valves could have damage to them, so keep that in mind.

Before starting it up for the first time after you fix the belt issue, pour a small amount of oil into each cylinder through the spark plug holes. For all this time you've been cranking it without starting, the cylinder walls are probably washed with gas and will need the oil to bump the compression up enough to start (that is if the valves aren't bent of course).

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

Also, even with the incorrect timing belt setup, the belt would be around 2 teeth off. Unless your valve lash is set extremely loose, the car will still run with the timing belt two teeth off, so I suspect your issue to be something else.

And again, the bent valve possibility still remains.

89d15crx

Well the head came off of my buddy's D16Z6 after it threw the 3rd piston/con rod out of the front and back of the block and the spark plug was crushed so I'm assuming that the valves must've been bent at the same time but unless I get a compression tester, I won't know. But here's the thing, if this was the case I would still have compression on all of the other valves (unless the engine also jumped timing when it blew and the other 3 pistons also impacted the valves). I'm just lost man. I will call Napa in the morning and see if I can get a T223 timing belt and I'll pull the cam gear off of one of my Y8 heads and go from there. I used to be able to do this **** in my sleep and now that I've been out of the game for so long I have to relearn even the most basic stuff. It makes me feel like a tard.

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

Oh lawd, that was a pretty big detail to leave out.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using IB AutoGroup

89d15crx

So I'm pretty convinced that the Z6 head that I have is trashed with bent valves so I called the local import yard around here and they said $150 if they pull it or $100 if I pull it for a complete Y8 head so I believe that I'll be going that route. I'll let y'all know what happens as soon as I can get out to grab that head. Thanks again for your help and insight.

P.S. it's either I get a new head or I use the valves from the only known good head that I have sitting here and for that I'll need a valve spring compressor for a Honda head. Anyone know where I can get a good one without both paying an arm and a leg and having to wait 4 years?

TomCat39

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Also with the Y8 head, you will need an adjustable cam gear as the deck height to cam height is different causing a one half tooth variance from what I've read.

You can get a serious amount of info from here:

https://honda-tech.com/hybrid-engine...iteup-2147115/

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

Why not take the head to a machine shop and let them fix it? The machine shop should get a discount on valves and extend that discount to you so long as you let them do the work.

If the head was trashed because a piston hit it, then I would also suspect that the head needs to be surfaced. So you'd be paying roughly $250-$300. I know this is like $200 more than the junkyard, but you'll be getting an almost brand new head when you're done.



NOTE: MAKE SURE THIS IS THE PROBLEM BEFORE YOU GO PULLING THE HEAD OFF. I don't want you to waste time and money if you don't need to. A simple leak down test will give you the confirmation you need.

89d15crx

Well I did a leak down test and found air coming from everywhere. Intake, exhaust, and between the head and block. When I got the car the kid gave me a brand new Felpro MLS head gasket so that's what I used and I believe that the head needs to be resurfaced because it wasn't sealing properly, there was coolant in all of the cylinders. Also, I never even checked but the exhaust valves on #3 were bent and wouldn't seal completely.

As a side note, I am a diesel mechanic in the oil and gas industry and even though I make pretty good money, my wife is still the hammer that always comes down when daddy wants to spend some money on his car. She has a nice car and I bought this Civic as a project for $1000 out of our tax refund and have spent about $2000 total between parts and title transfer with a new plate so she just believes that it's going to turn into another money pit. I wish someone would explain to her that when you buy a car as a project you want to make it nice and make it your own and you have to spend a little money to do tha, it doesn't just happen by itself. Anyway, point is that I am working in a tiny garage that the car doesn't even fit in and the door is half way open and it's been extremely cold here in PA so I'm doing the best that I can with what I have and money is tight. That's why I am opting for a used but good head.

In your opinion, which head do you think that I should put on the D15B block? I would LOVE to find a real D15B head to match the block but that's a joke.

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

I'm the last guy you want to ask about which head is better. I haven't owned a Honda since November of 2002 and to be quite honest, I can't stand Hondas. I'm only here to increase my post count. Once my post count reaches 5,000, i'm done with the bloody tech sections.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

If you're building a project car, why would you even do yourself the disservice of starting with a D15 block?

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

Cliffs: NotARacist lacks reading comprehension.


129 more posts to go, yippie!

TomCat39

I could troll you and go about deleting non technical replies from you and increase the number of posts to go. :p

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I thought the vtec JDM d15B's were the large con rod builds like the D16Z6, not the pencil thin B8/B7 builds?

Or does that not apply to the 3 stage D15B block and only to the D15B single vtec block?

Figured since it was in the car, it was a decent start for sticking with a D series.

89d15crx

Honestly, I got the car because I wanted a Honda and it was a coupe, I've always wanted a coupe. I once had an 89 CRX DX (hence the username) and it came with a clapped out D15B2 (DPFI) and I swapped it over to an A6 head and true fuel injection. After a little while the D15B2 decided that it no longer enjoyed having piston rings in it and began shedding parts so I took it apart and started searching ebay for a JDM engine to put in it. This was before anyone really started using the D15B so I picked it up for $600 shipped to my door and swapped it into the CRX. Then my wife and I got married, bought a house, and the CRX got thrown in my garage and forgotten. When the time came to start tinkering with it again I realized that the quarter panels were about 75% Bondo and started looking for a Civic in need of a motor and found a 92 EG8 4 door with a blown head gasket for $650. I bought it, drove it home, and threw the D15B in and that was the most reliable and fuel efficient car that I've ever owned and I've own 43 cars since I was 14.

Anyway, when a friend of mine told me about this car, I talked to the kid and I wanted it. It's a 97 EJ9 2 door EX with power windows, locks, and a sunroof. It has a JDM Del Solar Si trans and this D15B 3 stage block and a Y7 head because that's what came on the engine when he bought it. It originally had a Y8 in it but he blew it up so it's running on all of the Y8 parts (injectors, ECU, harness, and dizzy) but with a non-VTEC head. I had the Z6 head that I ported and polished but I never checked the valves or had it resurfaced. I am going to take the cheap and easy way out and try to find another head to put on there but I want one that'll fit this engine a little better, like a real JDM D15B head. That's why I asked which head would you choose. I'm going to build this D15B ultimately for boost, but I have to have it running ASAP for reasons that I can't explain. So any real help or opinions would be appreciated. Thank you.

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

In turn, I could troll you by using my special purple screen name power to change your user title to say "I <3 slomofo", but that wouldn't be fun.



And you're correct, the internals on the JDM D15B are of the same caliber as the internals on a D16Z6, albeit having a shorter stroke.


Someone previously asked why this person would do themself a disservice of starting with a D15B block, but that's just nonsense because the disservice of using the D15B block will account for a loss of maybe five horsepower due to the 97cc less displacement. The D15B also has a slightly higher compression ratio than the D16Z6.


Plus side of the D15B vs D16 is that with a more agressive cam and bigger valves, you can rev to the moon.

89d15crx

Alright, well I went and got ANOTHER Z6 head today from the junkyard, put it on the engine with a T223 belt, MLS Y8 head gasket, set the block to TDC with the Y8 crankshaft timing gear and an extension in the #1 spark plug hole, set the Y8 camshaft gear to align both timing marks with the back timing cover of the Z6 head and the "UP" in the up postion (all 4 valves are closed), and the timing belt marks line up still after numerous revolutions and still I have no compression. I don't own a compression tester but I've been working on engines long enough to know how an engine sounds when it has no compression. WTF am I doing wrong here!? I am totally lost. I seriously feel like an absolute retard. There is no reason why the engine should not be in time when all of the marks are lined up.

Former User

Oh brother. What's with the 5K post goal?

The purple team is a scary bunch. That must be part of the selection.

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

Are you getting spark and fuel? Verify before answering.

Did you pour oil into the cylinders? Trust me on the oil technique, it sounds like you've been cranking the engine over for quite some time now, so the cylinder walls will be washed; the oil will bring the compression up.


Did you check the valves on the new head BEFORE you put it on the car?


Can you please please please rent a compression tester from autozone and check compression before jumping to conclusions?











I hate to say this, but I think you're being counterproductive and I don't believe you'll rent the compression tester, so . . .

IF for some reason you decide to pull this head off again which I somehow believe you're going to do, please follow these steps:

Rotate crankshaft until all four pistons sit slightly below the deck height.

Pour 0w20 oil or ATF into all four cylinders. Pour enough in that the oil makes contact with the cylinder walls and the pistons are completely submersed.

Leave that alone for now and come back in exactly 2 hours.

REMOVE THE CAMSHAFT, this is extremely easy to do. The entire rocker arm assembly with cam caps are held on by just a few bolts.

With the camshaft out, place the head on it's side with the exhaust port facing down.

Get a can of brake cleaner and spray it into the intake ports. Now look at the valves, do you see any brake fluid bleeding from the valves? If yes, then the intake valves need work.

Flip the head over and do the same thing on the other side by spraying brake cleaner into the exhaust ports.

After you've verified that your head is good or bad, go look at the oil you poured into the cylinders. Is it still there? If yes, then your piston rings are good. If no, then your rings are bad.


Normally I wouldn't suggest doing this, but if you're not going to use a compression or leak down tester, these small steps will help you out immensely.

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

I like having an even post count. Two butthole face moderators have reset my post count in the past. One of them knew I was aiming for an even 8,000 and when I reached it, he made it some oddball number like 1860. The other mod dropped it to zero, but that was a long time ago.

89d15crx

Well right after I made that last post I removed the spark plugs and poured some oil into the cylinders and BAM compression. Now it won't start because the Y8 distributor (which is held in by two bolts) was not lined up to fire cylinder #1 with the head at TDC so I switched around the firing order by changing around the wires to 1342 and it fires on one cylinder but won't fire up because I don't believe that the Y8 distributor is the right dizzy to use with this combo. My buddy has a Z6 dizzy in his garage that he's going to give me and I'll get an adaptor harness from Rywire and go from there. I appreciate all of your advice with this issue.

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

That is excellent news, I'm glad to hear things are looking up. Hopefully the Z6 distributor will work and you'll be back on the roads soon.

89d15crx

Please bare with me here...Are you absolutely sure that I should be running that Y8 cam gear? I'm going out if town for the weekend for work and maybe it's just me being paranoid but are you sure that the Y8 cam gear is the way to go? BTW, I put the cam gears next to each other and not only are they exactly the same but the timing marks are exactly the same as well, what's the reason that I have to use the Y8 over the Z6 gear? I have an adjustable cam gear but I don't have the camshaft key to install it. I'm just asking questions here so I can learn more about these engines because honestly, I've never ran into any of these problems with any other engine before. I've built many 4G63t engines, B series engines, and I've even built D series engines before and I've never had any problems setting timing before. Granted, I've never had to deal with a Frankenstein engine like this but it just seems to me that the as long as the distributor is turning by the cam it should work even if the ignition timing would be a little off. I lent a friend my timing light a while back and he never returned it so I suppose that I'm going to have to get another one.

P.S. Don't get old, your memory goes and your abilities start to slip and it makes you feel retarded, like I do now. I shouldn't be having these issues...haha

TomCat39

The key ways should be slightly different. If they are not, then I'm not sure you have both a Z6 and a Y8 cam gear.

The Z6 has the keyway straight up at 12 o'clock. The Y8 is slightly off of 12 o'clock.