coloweirdo

Hi all!
Greetings to the forum. I have a 2000 Civic that runs great usually, but recently after it sits turned off when it's raining, it will run ragged and sputtery til it warms up. Then it's like nothing ever happened, and it runs great again. The check engine light actually blinked at me when it did it this morning. I haven't checked it yet for an error code, but the light is off now. It actually completely stalled after going through a BIG puddle the other day, so it makes me suspicious of the distributor/plug wires.

I tried to search the forum and found a reference to, "Either an Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) or a Fast-Idle Thermo Valve (FITV). Both are common failures.", but it didn't sound exactly like my problem.

The only common factor I can find in it's misbehavior is water and rain. When it gets really cold outside, the car still runs fine, regardless of being warmed up or not.

I'm a bit weary of taking it in for a problem that is so intermittent, so I thought I would ask the web first. Plus if it's just a little plugwires and cap thing, I would rather just do it myself...

Anyway, thanks for your time in reading this post. I will be sure to post back with whatever solution fixes it for the sake of completeness.

Thanks again!

jibs

I have never had this problem in a civic before, but yeah, sounds like the classic cracked dizzy cap. Or maybe its not on tight, or maybe that rubber O'ring between the cap and dizzy is bad/gone.

Welcome to HT

coloweirdo

I took a look at the distributor cap and I can't see any cracks or discoloration in it. I haven't had a chance to try the old "spray bottle and look for arcs" trick yet. It looks like they are probably the original plug wires though.

When I went back out today it had had time to cool, but it didn't act up again. The rain had stopped, of course, so the phantom of a problem disappears.

So, I will try to get a better idea of what's going on when I stop driving the thing long enough to check it out better. Gotta love Hondas though. I can't think of another car I've had that gave me the ability to drive it so much that I don't have time to figure out the problem!

I'll keep ya posted.

coloweirdo

Hi all,
So it rained some more, sputtered and missed some more, and the check engine light came on and stayed on this time. The error code was p0302. Cylinder misfire detected in cylinder #2. Warmed it up, cleared the code, and it didn't come back on. It gave me four possible causes.

1) Ignition system fault-spark plug(s), ignition wires
2) Vacuum leak
3) Injector fault
4) High or low fuel pressure

As I said, it only happens when it rains, making me most suspicious of number one. So, I'm thinking I will give it a tune up tomorrow, replacing the plugs, wires, cap, and rotor, and I have a couple questions for you guys. I am a little wary of replacing Honda parts with after market stuff, but the difference in price between Autozone parts and Honda parts is about a hundred bucks. So the questions are:

1) Who do you guys like to buy your parts from? (Honda, Napa, Autozone, etc.)
2) What do you guys think of putting +2 or +4 Platinum spark plugs in a Civic?

I like the idea of getting a few more horses out of it with the platinum plugs, but I don't want to wreak havoc on my engine by running it out of spec. Any advice or experience you guys have here would be greatly appreciated.

EKSedAndy

For the plugs, I don't believe that platinum plugs are actually supposed to give you extra power, they're more designed to last longer. The platinum electrode won't burn down like a regular copper one will. Also, if you're referring to Bosch +2 and +4's, I wouldn't go with them. I work part-time at Canadian Tire and we've experienced a lot of problems and faulty plugs from Bosch, and most of the mechanics won't use them. I think best to use on a Honda are the NGK's, and the G-Powers will be cheaper than either of those Bosch plugs.

As for wires, I don't know what kind of prices you can get on them or how long you are willing to wait, but you can get NGK wires on eBay for like $50. I know at Canadian Tire the only wire brands we carry are Champion, Bosch, and Accel, and I'd think the Accel's would be the best from that group.

For the distributor cap, I've been looking for one for my car lately, and it's hard to find a decent one that isn't set up for an external coil, so I'm about ready to reluctantly buy the Champion cap, or just pay the damn dealer.

JDM_teh_WIN!!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jibs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have never had this problem in a civic before, but yeah, sounds like the classic cracked dizzy cap. Or maybe its not on tight, or maybe that rubber O'ring between the cap and dizzy is bad/gone.

Welcome to HT </TD></TR></TABLE>

Prolly

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by andy_sayers &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the plugs, I don't believe that platinum plugs are actually supposed to give you extra power, they're more designed to last longer. The platinum electrode won't burn down like a regular copper one will. Also, if you're referring to Bosch +2 and +4's, I wouldn't go with them. I work part-time at Canadian Tire and we've experienced a lot of problems and faulty plugs from Bosch, and most of the mechanics won't use them. I think best to use on a Honda are the NGK's, and the G-Powers will be cheaper than either of those Bosch plugs.

As for wires, I don't know what kind of prices you can get on them or how long you are willing to wait, but you can get NGK wires on eBay for like $50. I know at Canadian Tire the only wire brands we carry are Champion, Bosch, and Accel, and I'd think the Accel's would be the best from that group.

For the distributor cap, I've been looking for one for my car lately, and it's hard to find a decent one that isn't set up for an external coil, so I'm about ready to reluctantly buy the Champion cap, or just pay the damn dealer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What he said, but I would go with an OEM rotor and cap.

coloweirdo

I always heard that Splitfires were supposed to give you another 5 horses or so, (seemed to be the case in my old car) therefore I assumed that these platinum +2s or +4s would do the same or better. They are indeed made by Bosch.

They really have a ton of different plugs available for this thing. Splitfires are only like 3 bucks. Platinum Splitfires are 5. Dura-Last (never heard of em) Platinums are 2 bucks, and Dura-Last Double Platinums are only 3 bucks. Autolite Platinums are 3 bucks and Double Platinums are 4 bucks. Then they have Autolite Extremes for 10 bucks a piece. (not sure why those are so much) Or AC Delco Platinums for 7. The NGKs don't seem to be available for this car at Autozones website. No Accel plugs there either. Currently leaning toward Splitfires for price to performance ratio.

The wires are ranging from 37 to 71 dollars. Dura-Last on the low end and Beck/Arnley on the high end with Accels in the middle for 50. Hate to pay too much for friggin wires. (note to fellow geeks, Monster Cables make no difference)

Distributor cap is either 16 or 19 bucks. Dura-Last or Beck/Arnley. Rotor is 13 bucks for Beck/Arnley.

So all together I'm lookin at:
4 X Splitfires = 12$
Dura-Last wires = 37$
Beck/Arnley Dis Cap = 19$
Beck/Arnley rotor = 13$

So about 81 bucks total, or 94 if I decide to listen and go with the Accel wires. That's about half what the dealer wanted for the parts. (not sure of dealer brands, forgot to ask)

Either route is of course much less than takin it to the mechanics, and ya get better parts.

What do you guys think of my selections so far? Any advice on things you would do different?

JDM_teh_WIN!!

OEM Honda - CAP ASSY. $15.48

OEM Honda - HEAD ASSY., ROTOR $14.14

NGK Double Platinum PFR6L-13 0.052 DOHC; VTEC
(Original Equipment Manufacturer, and/or Original Equipment Service Part)
$11.71 x4

NGK GP platinum BKR6EGP 0.052 DOHC; VTEC
$2.68 x4

NGK Premium wire set HE76 $49.16

=$89.50

If you use everything posted above you won't have any problems.

coloweirdo

Where did you find those parts/prices? Looks pretty good...

No opinion on the Splitfire thing? Or do you just like NGKs better?

JDM_teh_WIN!!

Price is online from different stores. Sparkplugs.com (plugs n wires)and Majestic Honda (OEM stuff). You can also call King Motorsports (OEM Stuff) and ask for Clayton. You'll have to pay for shipping. He'll be in tomorrow.

I wouldn't suggest anything but NGK. I would go with the G-powers or V-powers personally, but it seems like you really want Platinums.

STI champstar

Actually. Copper is the best material to be used in spark plugs. The cheap plugs that go for $1.50 may be the best in terms of performance.

http://www.se-r.net/engine/pla....html

Platinum and iridium aren't as conductive = more resistance to jump the gap between the plugs. Though the material they're made out of lets them accel at durability and take higher heat ranges. If you're not FI or doing some high compression mods to your engine that would alter the heat range, don't waste money on that other stuff.

coloweirdo

Thanks for the speedy reply. I would definitely rather have OEM cap and rotor for that price. Platinum plugs are less important to me if they only provide longer life. I was mainly urkin to squeeze a horse or two out of replacing them with something more efficient like Splitfires, but I don't wanna cause myself problems by running it out of spec... Bigger explosions of course equals more stress.

I'm not sure, but I think normal Splitfires are made out of copper. They definitely provide bigger spark than most I've seen.

Any idea what the difference is between G-powers and V-powers? Is there any added efficiency from using NGKs, or do you guys just trust the brand more?



Modified by coloweirdo at 10:47 AM 4/25/2007

EKSedAndy

G-Powers are a platinum-tipped plug, and V-Powers are a copper tip with a "V-Shaped" groove cut into them, supposedly for higher performance. But no matter what you go with you're not going to get much of a noticeable power difference between new parts. If your plugs and wires are worn out then new ones will make a difference of course, but there is no way that any sparg plug is going to give you 5+ horsepower on a stock or nearly stock engine. Buy NGK and OEM stuff that will give you good reliability, quality, and possibly some gains in fuel mileage, and stay away from 99% of that Autozone junk.

coloweirdo

I was just looking at the V-Powers online at Napa. Neat. They have the V shape in the plug itself. That's totally opposite of the Splitfires that have the V shape on the other end.

I don't know about 5 extra horses, (manufacturers claim) but I have definitely felt a performance increase when using Splitfires in the past. You can totally see the difference in spark width and brightness if you pop one out.

The NGK V-Powers claim "better ignitability, increased fuel economy, lower emissions, increased anti-fouling characteristics" Sounds like pretty much the same thing as Splitfires, just on the electrode end instead.

Definitely gonna try to get OEM cap and rotor if I can find em for a good price here in town. (don't wanna order and wait if I don't have to) I think I will try these NGK V-powers too. Wow, Napa has a set of plug wires for less than 20 bucks too if ya wanna get crazy. Not sure if I'd trust those or not.

I way over think stuff. It's my nature. Thanks for all the replys.

coloweirdo

So I changed out plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. It actually already had NGK V-Power plugs on it, so no change in horsepower whatsoever. (A little smoother acceleration though) Went with the cheap plug wires from Napa, cause the OEM cap and rotor were a little bit more money. The whole thing only cost a bit more than a hundred in the end.

When I took it all apart I found a few interesting things, but no really obvious primary cause of the problem. Here's a few things I noticed.

1) Plug cap and sparkplug in cylinder 1 were both quite loose.
2) Sparkplug from cylinder 1 was more oil/carbon fouled and beat up than the rest.
3) Sparkplugs were all gapped too much.
4) Distributor cap O-Ring looked fine.
5) Old distributor cap was after market. (made in USA)
6) Old rotor looked fairly worn. Also after market.
7) Plug wire from cylinder 2 looked like it had rubbed against the hood.

It's a bit odd that the sparkplug and cap on cylinder 1 was loose when I had got an error report from cylinder 2. Hmmm......

So it runs well, takes off a bit smoother, and starts easier. We'll have to wait for some rain to see if the problem is completely solved. I will keep you posted.


Modified by coloweirdo at 12:57 PM 4/26/2007

coloweirdo

Well it rained cats and dogs last night. The car ran like a top with all the new stuff in it, so I think the problem is solved. I will let you guys know if it comes up again.

The cheapy $18.50 plug wires from Napa actually seem to be a pretty good product. Only 7mm, but the end caps fit much more tightly on both the distributor and engine side. Nice squishy rubber. Guaranteed for 50,000 miles. Car feels strong and smooth.

Honda dealer tried to sell me a car when I stopped at the parts department for cap and rotor. She said, "Trade it for a new one!". I said, "Do you guys even take cars with salvage titles?". She replied, "Sure we do. We just don't pay much for them." I said, "That's too bad." Got in my car and drove off. Shortest conversation I've ever had with a salesperson, so remember that one if you're tryin to escape some time.

JDM_teh_WIN!!

Sweet

TDSI99

mine did this after I ran through a deep puddle at 45mph. I ran rough for a day of so until everything dried out and it was fine again. I would say if you are still having problems with it, check your dizzy. The contacts might have got wet.