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[FAQ] Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha

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Old 10-07-2003, 05:04 PM   #1
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Default Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha

Yes, this is extremely long and boring, quit reading now or your life energy will be drained away forever haha

ok, I'm just cutting and pasting my posts in another thread since it's on page 6 of that post and most people will never read that far and thus never see any of this. This info is provided from my own personal experience doing several of these swaps for myself and my friends. However, most of this information is directed at the 96-00 Civic guys as I haven't messed with the 92-95's due to none of us actually having any of these cars, Yet, there is a good bit of info in here which is universal to both generation civics.

Feel free to bash this information however you want or simply read it for your own gratification or whatnot. I don't care but here it is since there's sooo much drama over this subject that it's basically not funny.

If I have contradicted myself in either of the pasted posts below please let me know in a PM so that I may correct it as I probably won't read through this post later on and a bunch of people saying, "hey, this is wrong dude" will just clutter up the post...

Post #1 information

here's my write-up from doing one of the MANY 96-00 Ek rear conversions I've done in the past. It's on my site where I've got quite a bit of other interesting conversions I've done:

http://www.geocities.com/_nitr....html

Here's what you need to make it the EASIEST pain-free install:

1. 93-97 delsol or 94-01 integra or 99-00 Si or "some" 92-95 Civic Si trailing arm assembly.
2. delsol/Si rear brake lines (if you use integra trailing arms/calipers you need INTEGRA brake lines...they have a COMPLETELY different caliper attachment that WILL NOT work with delsol/si calipers).
3. 99-00 Si Emergency brake lines (integra lines will work but they come together into a single rubber floorpan grommet which you'll have to hack up and you could hear wind noise, etc under the carpet).
4. 99-00 Si Master cylinder/proportioning valve (you can go with integra parts but you'll have to flare lines, etc) the Si stuff is drop in.

On friend's cars we've gotten away without the M.C./prop valve but some of them have had pad wear problems and one guy's calipers just wouldn't let go all the way. This is because the rear disc brake cars have different valving in the M.C./prop valve since discs and drums are totally different animals (drums use higher line pressure than discs.)

I bought my 99-00 Si e-brake cables at the local honda dealer for $88.00 a piece just for peace of mind that they were new and I got 99-00 Si brake lines new from Parks auto parts for $16.00 each, again for peace of mind that used lines could possibly fail.

Some parts counter guys are idiots and I went round and round with the peeps at parks before they finally found the right brake lines

Another thing to remember is that if you change the entire trailing arm assembly out you WILL want to get some axle grease and grease ALL around all the mounting points/bushing on the trailing arm assembly as the bushings have a tendancy to dry and the rear of the car will squeak like mad until you grease it all heavily (WD-40 and Lithium grease do NOT work, I can attest to this).

If you use integra trailing arms with ABS just clip the line and forget it, never had problems on two friends cars using them.

My personal car has 97 delsol Si rear discs w/99-00 Si parts throughout on it due to them having (in my opinion) a better quality caliper setup compared to what I've seen on the 99-00 Si's.

but this is just me...

Post #2 information

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundbomber
Ok, just to make sure, are all honda proportioning valves 4040 or do they vary among rear disk/drum setups? Please answer with facts rather than hearsay.
they are all marked the same, only the valving on the inside is different. God only knows what you'll get if you only go by what is imprinted on the outside of the housing without knowing 100% where the proportioning valve came from. When I had my 99 Si M.C. and Prop valve sitting next to my stock 98 EX parts the only way I knew which was which was from the IAS tag attached to the Si parts.

Post #3 information

Ok, here's the info on everything from the different cars that came with rear discs which people like to swap onto their 92-95 civics and 96-00 civics. It's well known that the trailing arms are all the same for all of these cars yet the actual calipers/master cylinders/brake lines ARE different. I've done several swaps for friends and run into just about every plausible cuss word imaginable when parts don't interchange...at this point I know what will work and what won't work with one another yet people are STILL saying that it will. Well here's all the different master cylinders, all the different brake lines, and all the different calipers out there. It is true that the setups will all fit one another but only a few of them will work with each other in harmony.

What I mean by harmony is that if you get a trailing arm setup for say, an integra but the brake lines were cut so you take it upon yourself to order up a set of Delsol brake lines instead of just being smart about it and getting replacement integra brake lines. All the various brake lines will mate to the same rear hard line but they different in banjo attachment (and sometimes length) Master cylinders are another beast in themselves. I won't get into proportioning valves in this discussion as I cannot find pictures to back up what I have to say.

Please take note that if you see two(2) master cylinders listed for a vehicle that the FIRST one is for cars with ABS and the SECOND one is for non-ABS cars.

90-93 Integra Brake Parts:


94-01 Integra Brake Parts:



92-95 Civic Si Brake Parts:



99-00 Civic Si Brake Parts:



93-97 Civic Del Sol Brake Parts:



Ok, the main gripe with doing these swaps comes when you get a setup with the brake lines cut and you need to use other brake lines...you need to take heed to the pivot on the banjo fitting as it mounts to the brake caliper. As you can see, you've got two main types. A flat one and a tilted one...you can't mix-match these or they won't fit. simple as that. Not only this (and I know it's hard to see in the pictures) but on the CALIPERS themselves the banjo fittings mount in DIFFERENT areas onto the actual caliper. Thus, say you get a caliper with a low mount tilted banjo fitting (93-97 Del Sol), a high mount tilted banjo fitting will NOT work (94-01 Integra) as it simply won't be long enough to reach even though it will physically bolt without binding.

All-in-all, just buy the correct brake lines for your calipers and you'll be good. I personally run Del Sol calipers with 99-00 Si brake lines as they DO fit but this is an exception to the rule (mainly because the photo of the 99-00 Si Line isn't to scale for some reason).

Moving onto the e-brake cables. You can use the e-brake cables off of whatever car you got the trailing arms from but if you use integra e-brake cables be prepared to cut the floorpan grommet up as it is a single large grommet yet civics have 2(two) separate smaller floorpan holes instead of the one big one. A given is to use 99-00 Si e-brake lines as they fit all the various civics and are only $80 a piece new at the dealer versus $40 used at the junkyard.

On to the master cylinders. You poor guys with 92-95's are on your own here I only mess with 96-00 civics myself as I like them more and I highly suggest if you convert a 96-00 civic to rear discs that you use 99-00 Si master cylinder and proportioning valve. If you have a 96-98 EX you do NOT have to upgrade your master cylinder as it is the same as the Si but you WILL have to upgrade the proportioning valve as that is where the different valving comes into play (96-00 Dx, Hx, Lx should change both). This is necessary as drums use higher line pressure due to the curved and lengthened surface of the pads needing more pressure to get the same clamping force (though they can be adjusted for zero drag...but that's on a completely different subject all together). If you continue to use your drum setup proportioning valve the higher line pressure (even without pedal pressure) will not allow the pads to release completely and you will risk either one or a combination of the following problems unless your car is a freak of nature:

1. overheating and warping the rotors
2. car will grab more on one side and you'll travel that way instead of tracking right and will forever think your alignment is out
3. overheat and bind the caliper (I had this happen back in the day...not fun)
4. burn down the rear pads fast...you'll know when you have twice as much brake dust out back than up front haha

For you 92-95 guys I would simply suggest you pick out the master cylinder/proportioning valve that will provide the LEAST amount of line flaring needed to get it to work. I know I heard somewhere that there's one you can use that only needs minimal bending but as I said...I don't deal with 92-95's so I don't know for sure.

I'm sure I've left something or another out or that I may have said something that still leaves you scratching your head or something but I'm rushing through this to go eat dinner. Just let me know if there's anything goofy that needs my attention to revision. Have fun and since this is at the END of a 6 page post I'll move it later to it's own thread.

Final Thoughts

No I haven't read through all of this again before cutting and pasting it but I know a bunch of you will and I'm sure you'll find something wrong here or there so just let me know what needs to be cleared up/corrected. If you have pictures of swapped master cylinders/proportioning valves on 92-95 civics and/or 93-97 del sols feel free to post them here and say what they are and how hard they were to install and whatnot.

However, I will always suggest that if you have a 96-00 Civic you use a 99-00Si M.C./prop valve. If you have a 92-95 Civic you use a 95 Civic Si M.C./prop valve. If you have a 93-97 Del Sol you use a Del Sol Si M.C./prop valve as they are pretty much guaranteed to be bolt on with the least amount of headache.

cheers
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Old 10-07-2003, 05:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (stackz)

Christ that is a lot of reading. Lets skip to my question, before installing the brakes do we have to bleed the brakes?

and oh yea... [SAVE TO FAVORITES][/SAVE]
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Old 10-07-2003, 05:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (00 EK9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00 EK9
Christ that is a lot of reading. Lets skip to my question, before installing the brakes do we have to bleed the brakes?

and oh yea... [SAVE TO FAVORITES][/SAVE]
?? do you mean draining the system before taking off the old stuff and putting on the new stuff?? if so then not really, you'll still leak fluid regardless. If you are wanting to swap over to say DOT5 fluid then you need to completely drain every last single drop of DOT3 fluid from the ENTIRE system....an air compressor helps with this but you'll still be risking it on the calipers as the rubber piston seals tend to horde up fluid which you can't get out unless you replace them.

DOT3 and DOT5 fluid does NOT mix well together basically. Two completely different animals
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Old 10-07-2003, 05:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (stackz)

Well I'm doing the conversion on both front and back. Do I need to bleed or can i just unhook stuff and start swapping it over?
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Old 10-08-2003, 04:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (00 EK9)

you don't bleed the brakes until you put all the new stuff on.
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Old 10-08-2003, 05:22 AM   #6
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (stackz)

I got some questions, since i have a 97 ex w/abs do i have to use a gsr rear brake setup to keep my abs functional

And also will i be able to use si ebrake cables and some stainless steel brake lines with the gsr rear brakes.

thanks i've been looking for this info for along time.
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Old 10-08-2003, 06:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (willyboyD16)

just added this thread to favorites

good info for all us ek guys
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Old 10-08-2003, 08:18 AM   #8
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dot 5 has silicone in it doenst it? you dont want jelly in your lines. dot 3 or 4
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Old 10-08-2003, 10:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (willyboyD16)

Quote:
Originally Posted by willyboyD16
I got some questions, since i have a 97 ex w/abs do i have to use a gsr rear brake setup to keep my abs functional

And also will i be able to use si ebrake cables and some stainless steel brake lines with the gsr rear brakes.

thanks i've been looking for this info for along time.
If you want a functional ABS system (I personally think abs is trash but that's just me) then yes, you need an ABS master cylinder/prop valve and abs equipped rear brakes. Yes, you can use the SI e-brake cables with them (might be a bit tight but they'll work) and if you want stainless steel lines I highly suggest you go with the correct ones....if you use gsr brakes, get gsr lines...


yeah phantom...DOT 5 has some silicon in it for higher temp resistance so it doesn't break down under racing conditions and it definitely needs to be drained during long sittings or after the recommended usage or it gels up...
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Old 10-08-2003, 10:51 AM   #10
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (stackz)

So if I started the swap tonight on the rear disk conversion, I wouldn't have to bleed the brakes when I'm swappin the Si brakes in the back?

-Sorry if i'm coming off like a dumbass, but I just want to be sure before I start.
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Old 10-08-2003, 10:57 AM   #11
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bleed the brake lines if you change pads, unbolt calipers, replace brake systems or anything dealing with moving or emptying fluid in brake lines.
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Old 10-08-2003, 11:00 AM   #12
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k gotcha...looks like i'm going to have to do it.
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Old 10-08-2003, 11:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom_sol
bleed the brake lines if you change pads
well you don't have to bleed the brakes if you change pads

oh and make sure you've got either a huge screwdriver or one of those large flat blade bits for the piston on the caliper as you have to twist honda pistons in when putting new pads on (which you SHOULD do if you're putting the discs on)...
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Old 10-08-2003, 11:38 AM   #14
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Oh...no...I'm changing everything, hehe
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Old 10-08-2003, 03:26 PM   #15
 
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Thanks man. was planning to do the conversion one day after I get boosted. This should be sticky or something
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Old 11-29-2003, 08:21 AM   #16
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I'm going to do a rear conversion onto my 97 dx for the turbo that's going on after winter. I do NOT have ABS, so what rear disc brake setup would you reccomend?Thanks.
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Old 02-08-2004, 02:20 AM   #17
 
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I just did my rear disc conversion today on my 96 ex coupe with Si rear discs... For some reason my ebrake doesnt sit straight its kinda tilted upwards, how can i fix this? It also seems that the ebrake doesnt fully lock on to the back so that the card still is able to move a lil bit if i push on it really hard... and theres a creeking sound..? first rear disc conversion ive done and im lost
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Old 02-08-2004, 05:08 AM   #18
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Just to let you guys know, you can buy this hand pump thingy from like Autozone for about $20. It only requires one person to use. No more having to have someone else pump the brake pedal for you! Just hook up the pump to the bleed screw on the caliper and pump a few times. It draws the air out and works nicely. You can also use the pump for other things as well (NO, I don't mean like that, sickos!)
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Old 02-08-2004, 06:20 AM   #19
 
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (stackz)

i have a guestion man... okie i have a 92 acura integra and a honda civic eg hatch, my question is can i use the 92 integra conversion to my 94 eg hatch??

and will there be a problem??

thanks in advance
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Old 02-22-2004, 02:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (stackz)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stackz
Yes, this is extremely long and boring, quit reading now or your life energy will be drained away forever haha

ok, I'm just cutting and pasting my posts in another thread since it's on page 6 of that post and most people will never read that far and thus never see any of this. This info is provided from my own personal experience doing several of these swaps for myself and my friends. However, most of this information is directed at the 96-00 Civic guys as I haven't messed with the 92-95's due to none of us actually having any of these cars, Yet, there is a good bit of info in here which is universal to both generation civics.

Feel free to bash this information however you want or simply read it for your own gratification or whatnot. I don't care but here it is since there's sooo much drama over this subject that it's basically not funny.

If I have contradicted myself in either of the pasted posts below please let me know in a PM so that I may correct it as I probably won't read through this post later on and a bunch of people saying, "hey, this is wrong dude" will just clutter up the post...

Post #1 information

here's my write-up from doing one of the MANY 96-00 Ek rear conversions I've done in the past. It's on my site where I've got quite a bit of other interesting conversions I've done:

http://www.geocities.com/_nitr....html

Here's what you need to make it the EASIEST pain-free install:

1. 93-97 delsol or 94-01 integra or 99-00 Si or "some" 92-95 Civic Si trailing arm assembly.
2. delsol/Si rear brake lines (if you use integra trailing arms/calipers you need INTEGRA brake lines...they have a COMPLETELY different caliper attachment that WILL NOT work with delsol/si calipers).
3. 99-00 Si Emergency brake lines (integra lines will work but they come together into a single rubber floorpan grommet which you'll have to hack up and you could hear wind noise, etc under the carpet).
4. 99-00 Si Master cylinder/proportioning valve (you can go with integra parts but you'll have to flare lines, etc) the Si stuff is drop in.

On friend's cars we've gotten away without the M.C./prop valve but some of them have had pad wear problems and one guy's calipers just wouldn't let go all the way. This is because the rear disc brake cars have different valving in the M.C./prop valve since discs and drums are totally different animals (drums use higher line pressure than discs.)

I bought my 99-00 Si e-brake cables at the local honda dealer for $88.00 a piece just for peace of mind that they were new and I got 99-00 Si brake lines new from Parks auto parts for $16.00 each, again for peace of mind that used lines could possibly fail.

Some parts counter guys are idiots and I went round and round with the peeps at parks before they finally found the right brake lines <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.honda-tech.com/set1/smile/mad.gif" BORDER="0">

Another thing to remember is that if you change the entire trailing arm assembly out you WILL want to get some axle grease and grease ALL around all the mounting points/bushing on the trailing arm assembly as the bushings have a tendancy to dry and the rear of the car will squeak like mad until you grease it all heavily (WD-40 and Lithium grease do NOT work, I can attest to this).

If you use integra trailing arms with ABS just clip the line and forget it, never had problems on two friends cars using them.

My personal car has 97 delsol Si rear discs w/99-00 Si parts throughout on it due to them having (in my opinion) a better quality caliper setup compared to what I've seen on the 99-00 Si's.

but this is just me...

Post #2 information

they are all marked the same, only the valving on the inside is different. God only knows what you'll get if you only go by what is imprinted on the outside of the housing without knowing 100% where the proportioning valve came from. When I had my 99 Si M.C. and Prop valve sitting next to my stock 98 EX parts the only way I knew which was which was from the IAS tag attached to the Si parts.

Post #3 information

Ok, here's the info on everything from the different cars that came with rear discs which people like to swap onto their 92-95 civics and 96-00 civics. It's well known that the trailing arms are all the same for all of these cars yet the actual calipers/master cylinders/brake lines ARE different. I've done several swaps for friends and run into just about every plausible cuss word imaginable when parts don't interchange...at this point I know what will work and what won't work with one another yet people are STILL saying that it will. Well here's all the different master cylinders, all the different brake lines, and all the different calipers out there. It is true that the setups will all fit one another but only a few of them will work with each other in harmony.

What I mean by harmony is that if you get a trailing arm setup for say, an integra but the brake lines were cut so you take it upon yourself to order up a set of Delsol brake lines instead of just being smart about it and getting replacement integra brake lines. All the various brake lines will mate to the same rear hard line but they different in banjo attachment (and sometimes length) Master cylinders are another beast in themselves. I won't get into proportioning valves in this discussion as I cannot find pictures to back up what I have to say.

Please take note that if you see two(2) master cylinders listed for a vehicle that the FIRST one is for cars with ABS and the SECOND one is for non-ABS cars.

Ok, the main gripe with doing these swaps comes when you get a setup with the brake lines cut and you need to use other brake lines...you need to take heed to the pivot on the banjo fitting as it mounts to the brake caliper. As you can see, you've got two main types. A flat one and a tilted one...you can't mix-match these or they won't fit. simple as that. Not only this (and I know it's hard to see in the pictures) but on the CALIPERS themselves the banjo fittings mount in DIFFERENT areas onto the actual caliper. Thus, say you get a caliper with a low mount tilted banjo fitting (93-97 Del Sol), a high mount tilted banjo fitting will NOT work (94-01 Integra) as it simply won't be long enough to reach even though it will physically bolt without binding.

All-in-all, just buy the correct brake lines for your calipers and you'll be good. I personally run Del Sol calipers with 99-00 Si brake lines as they DO fit but this is an exception to the rule (mainly because the photo of the 99-00 Si Line isn't to scale for some reason).

Moving onto the e-brake cables. You can use the e-brake cables off of whatever car you got the trailing arms from but if you use integra e-brake cables be prepared to cut the floorpan grommet up as it is a single large grommet yet civics have 2(two) separate smaller floorpan holes instead of the one big one. A given is to use 99-00 Si e-brake lines as they fit all the various civics and are only $80 a piece new at the dealer versus $40 used at the junkyard.

On to the master cylinders. You poor guys with 92-95's are on your own here I only mess with 96-00 civics myself as I like them more and I highly suggest if you convert a 96-00 civic to rear discs that you use 99-00 Si master cylinder and proportioning valve. If you have a 96-98 EX you do NOT have to upgrade your master cylinder as it is the same as the Si but you WILL have to upgrade the proportioning valve as that is where the different valving comes into play (96-00 Dx, Hx, Lx should change both). This is necessary as drums use higher line pressure due to the curved and lengthened surface of the pads needing more pressure to get the same clamping force (though they can be adjusted for zero drag...but that's on a completely different subject all together). If you continue to use your drum setup proportioning valve the higher line pressure (even without pedal pressure) will not allow the pads to release completely and you will risk either one or a combination of the following problems unless your car is a freak of nature:

1. overheating and warping the rotors
2. car will grab more on one side and you'll travel that way instead of tracking right and will forever think your alignment is out
3. overheat and bind the caliper (I had this happen back in the day...not fun)
4. burn down the rear pads fast...you'll know when you have twice as much brake dust out back than up front haha

For you 92-95 guys I would simply suggest you pick out the master cylinder/proportioning valve that will provide the LEAST amount of line flaring needed to get it to work. I know I heard somewhere that there's one you can use that only needs minimal bending but as I said...I don't deal with 92-95's so I don't know for sure.

I'm sure I've left something or another out or that I may have said something that still leaves you scratching your head or something but I'm rushing through this to go eat dinner. Just let me know if there's anything goofy that needs my attention to revision. Have fun and since this is at the END of a 6 page post I'll move it later to it's own thread.

Final Thoughts

No I haven't read through all of this again before cutting and pasting it but I know a bunch of you will and I'm sure you'll find something wrong here or there so just let me know what needs to be cleared up/corrected. If you have pictures of swapped master cylinders/proportioning valves on 92-95 civics and/or 93-97 del sols feel free to post them here and say what they are and how hard they were to install and whatnot.

However, I will always suggest that if you have a 96-00 Civic you use a 99-00Si M.C./prop valve. If you have a 92-95 Civic you use a 95 Civic Si M.C./prop valve. If you have a 93-97 Del Sol you use a Del Sol Si M.C./prop valve as they are pretty much guaranteed to be bolt on with the least amount of headache.

cheers

just a condensed version printer friendly

BTW awesome write up cudos to stackz
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Old 02-23-2004, 06:52 PM   #21
 
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (stackz)

im converting my 93 dx hatch rear drums to 99-00 si rear disc. i have it complete. will i need to change my M.C etcetc? how hard is the ebrake cable to install?
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Old 03-13-2004, 08:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (egturbo)

I would change the M/C. i changed mine to a 15/16 94-01 intergra rs M/C. the 1" requires bending of the brake lines which is in my view, a lot more work for not much more gains. as for the 40/40 valve on the eg, i would recomend it. you don't "need" it to make it work but, pedal feel will be much better (and effective) if you use one.
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Old 03-13-2004, 09:05 PM   #23
 
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (nscivic)

i converted my 93 dx hatch drums to 00 si rear disc and thats it. nothing else. brakes like a charm. soooo much better than drum. its worth the upgrade.
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Old 03-13-2004, 11:06 PM   #24
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dam..that would've been alot of pics
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:59 AM   #25
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Default Re: Complete Rear Disc Brake Conversion How-To W/Parts Pictures 56k?? haha (2000DX)

wow... i just ordered my brakes and are coming in this wednesday. i've been running through the install in my head a few times and have come to a screeching halt when it comes to the booster and master cylinder. ok.. from the other post here... im gonna go replace the old with the new, all four discs, prop valve, master cylinder, and booster, this means fluid dripping everywhere, then just fill up the master cylinder with the new fluid and pump that through the whole system correct? if i do it good enough, i could get all the air out and have the new fluid in there right? but someone tonight was telling me that you can't do that and you would need some compressor to get all of the air out.. i havent seen the use of a compressor when it comes to brakes.

someone that has done all four discs and changing the prop, master cylinder, and booster please help me out, this can be helpful for others too.

thanks in advance.
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