Blk00EJ8

EDIT: All issues with starting and idle resolved!!

Ok, I'm starting to get really desperate here. And I'm dead serious, I will pay whomever gives me the right answers to get my car started. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't just post BS. This is crazy long but here goes...

Setup:
2000 Honda Civic Ex chassis, originally D16Y8 with automatic trans
1997 JDM B18C GSR swap, S80 5 spd with LSD (5 spd conversion, obviously)
2000 Civic Ex harness from a 5 spd
1997 JDM P72 -- OBD2a
OBD2b -> OBD2a conversion harness from Rywire

Work done thus far:
1. Motor is in, harness connected, ECU connected
2. Had to de-pin Civic dist clip and use clip from GSR harness to fit distibutor plug on motor's dist
3. Removed auto shifter, connected the two thick gauge wires (blk/wht and blk/red) with one thin (blk/blu) for starter and key removal

What happened originally:
1. Turn key to on, fuel pump primed and shut off (52 psi fuel pressure at filter)
2. Turn key to start, power drains as if starting but starter does not turn over at all
3. Tested starter by wiring directly to a battery; starter turns motor over no problem
4. Turn key and hold in start for 5-10 seconds blows 40 amp ignition fuse under the hood

What I did next:
1. Tested ignition switch and found to be inconsistent with continuity to starter when key turned to start; replaced the ignition switch with new Honda switch
2. Removed clutch safety switch wiring so as to avoid any unnecessary variables (clutch safety switch still tests ok however)

What I did after replacing the ignition switch:
1. Verified continuity between ignition switch to auto shifter wiring (blk/wht) when key is in start position; verified ok.
2. Verified continuity between auto shifter wiring (blk/red) and starter switch at the starter; verified ok.
3. Tried starting again; same thing happened (or didn't happen). Power seemed to drain but starter does not turn over at all (and battery is good). Wiring at shifter (2 thick+1 thin) goes to 12v when key turned to start so wiring seems ok.
4. No fuses blown this time!

What happened after this attempt:
1. At first, I was able to remove my key by touching the thin blk/blu at the shifter wiring to the thick blk/red to take my key out (tricking the car into thinking I'm in Park). Now, touching the 2 wires does NOT allow me to take my key out.
2. This never happened at all before, but now my fuel pump does not STOP priming when I turn the key to on. Basically I'm still getting 50 psi or more at the fuel filter but it keeps pushing fuel (I can hear it around the fuel rail and I don't hear the second click near the relay that it makes when it shuts off, plus soft high pitched whine inside car).
3. Fuel pump MAY stop priming if I physically jolt the car; I realized this when I sat down abruptly one time and it went off. I also replicated it several times. However, if fuel pump does NOT stop priming, I get a CEL after about 10 seconds. It turns out to be only one code... 8 - TDC sensor. If fuel pump goes off, no code at all.

Things I've checked:
1. Fuses... I saw no blown fuses in either fuse box
2. Engine grounds... I have the valve cover and tranny grounded to battery (not chassis) and the harness is grounded to the thermostat. The chassis is also grounded to the battery, but independent of these other grounds.
3. Solder points on main relay appear ok but I don't have another to test with.
4. I've tried another ECU (USDM P2P) and the fuel pump issue happens with that one as well.

I think I covered everything... and $50 up for grabs... let's see who the experts are!


Modified by EKcivicEX at 4:15 PM 11/20/2006


Modified by EKcivicEX at 12:05 AM 11/25/2006

thehondaconnection

maybe the relay?There is a way to test them,or just try another one but you may smoke
that one too!

Sketch_hs

hmm recheck you dissy wiring

so if you try to start now it turns over right?

are you getting spark? are the injectors firing?


if you have spark and fuel and the timing is right, the car will run

Timberland237

i'm not sure if it matters if you ground everything to the battery but the battery and main realy fuses are connected together maybe it's too much to handle, could be way off but i ground all my engine stuff to the chassis. if not that i would suggest that there is a big wiring porblem, did you contatc rywire to see if this was something that could have from fualty wiring or wrongly installed wiring? These are my suggestions 50 bucks or not.

Blk00EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sketch_hs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so if you try to start now it turns over right?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope... it has never turned over from turning the key.

Sketch_hs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKcivicEX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nope... it has never turned over from turning the key.</TD></TR></TABLE>

check to make sure the starter is getting power, make sure that the feed to the starter is good and not grounded anywhere. had this problem when i put the new motor in my supra, the wire was touching ground = blown electrical stuff all over and no start

have you tried, with the the key in on, jumping the starter?

does this car have an immobilizer by chance?

do you know the ecu is good?

Blk00EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Timberland237 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i ground all my engine stuff to the chassis</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, technically, you're using your chassis as a huge wire to ground everything to the battery, so it's all getting there anyway, just with less resistance.

And just to note, I'm using an HKS circle earth grounding kit.

Micha

Does it matter what the tranny was in when you took the auto out? Maybe position sensor?

Blk00EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Sketch_hs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

check to make sure the starter is getting power, make sure that the feed to the starter is good and not grounded anywhere. had this problem when i put the new motor in my supra, the wire was touching ground = blown electrical stuff all over and no start

have you tried, with the the key in on, jumping the starter?

does this car have an immobilizer by chance?

do you know the ecu is good?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I checked the continuity from ignition switch to starter switch and it checked out, so by some extraordinary power of deduction, I'm assuming that power is not making it to the starter switch since it doesn't turn over . But I'm not sure where else to check if its accidentally grounded...?

I have not tried jumping the starter with the key in the ON position. But wouldn't the key have to be in the START position instead when this is performed?

No immobilizer. USDM Civic, not 2000-2001 Integra, and JDM ECU = no immobilizer.

I do not know for sure that the ECU is good, but given that it initially primed the fuel pump and threw no CELs, I assumed the problem was in the wiring somewhere and not the ECU.

Blk00EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blu99teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Does it matter what the tranny was in when you took the auto out? Maybe position sensor? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The tranny and shifter were in Park when it was removed. I don't remember for sure, but can't you crank an engine with an auto even if it's not in Park? or no?

Micha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKcivicEX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The tranny and shifter were in Park when it was removed. I don't remember for sure, but can't you crank an engine with an auto even if it's not in Park? or no?</TD></TR></TABLE>

ummm, park and neutral I believe.

Check your clutch switch?

Blk00EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blu99teg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ummm, park and neutral I believe.

Check your clutch switch? </TD></TR></TABLE>

The clutch switch was removed from the circuit, but still tested ok. So clutch switch is eliminated from the eq.

Micha

I'm out. Sorry. I have never done a swap before.

Blk00EJ8

back up to the first page!

slambedcivic

if you have the key in the on position. can you jump power directly to the started and start the car? report back and let me know. and get on aim if you can. Hit me up @ slambedcivic. im not worried about money man. just lookin to help some people out

Sloshy

the distributer, why did you have to repin are you sure your motor is obd2 and not obd1 because of the dizzy. im guessin you're using a obd1 dizzy, cuz i use a dizzy of integra and dint have to repin

Sloshy

are you geting spark?

EX-T

I'm thinking that his all has something to do with the Auto - Manual swap. It sounds to me like your car is confused as far as the inputs for starting. It is expecting to be in park/neutral to start but it's not getting it, so you ground the wires that went to the gear selector and it primes but won't start. You need to do something with those 3 wires you took from the auto gear selector.

That's what I think it is.

JShull

When you took your auto shifter out..and did your wiring. I'm thinking the same as the guy above.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1337459

I've recommended this thread over and over because it's helped me out tremendously.

Edit. Hmm reading owns me.

Blk00EJ8

At least you saved me a post...

wait, nm...

madnes

Hmm try the relay under the dash, its the start shut off relay. I think its the one that diverts all the power to the starter im not sure though. there is like 4 relays in the under dash box and it will be the one on the left. try a new relay or check the original one if you know how to do continuity test on them. hope it helps

Blk00EJ8

bump for more suggestions

93(Civic)EG6

take that $50 and go and catch a movie and then maybe grab some food, just sit back and relax for a little bit and forget about your problems for a second. Then with the $20 left over you still have enough and can go buy a huffy bike! CHI CING PROBLEM SOLVED! "Think outside the Bun"

EE_Chris

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKcivicEX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">3. Tried starting again; same thing happened (or didn't happen). Power seemed to drain but starter does not turn over at all (and battery is good). Wiring at shifter (2 thick+1 thin) goes to 12v when key turned to start so wiring seems ok</TD></TR></TABLE>

How thin a piece of wire? On which side of this wire did you measure the 12v to be? If the wire is thin enough to drop some voltage, you'd measure 12v on one side of it...just not the other.

As was suggested earlier - measure the voltage AT the starter while trying to use the key.

Sketch_hs

you really need to try jumping the starter while the ign is in the on position. do that and get back to us. make sure the car isn't in gear don't kill yourself please!