"Brake" it down
08-03-2003, 04:23 PM
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"Brake" it down
ok, lets say that i have a 2000 EK with ABS. I run stainless lines, cross and slotted rotors, disc in the rear and stiffen the suspension. you think im any where near the braking 60-0 of a ITR? What is the 60 on an ITR and the stock EK? anyone know?
08-03-2003, 04:28 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (DSeriesBKilla)
abs sucks, it thinks for you. I hate the way it feels. And i dont think you will be close to the itr. IF you want to stop on a dime, go get some wilwood big brake kits for ur car then you will stop nasty fast 
08-03-2003, 04:28 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (DSeriesBKilla)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DSeriesBKilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">USDM Civics have ABS? I didn't know that....</TD></TR></TABLE>
They dont, This is just a theory.
They dont, This is just a theory.
08-03-2003, 04:29 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (gezer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gezer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">abs sucks, it takes 5 years to stop the ******* car!! get rid of it </TD></TR></TABLE>
Not what I asked, say something smart or dont say anything.
Not what I asked, say something smart or dont say anything.
08-03-2003, 04:32 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (Peagreenhatch)
some 92-95 civic EX sedans came with abs, as well as some EX coupes. i'm not sure if ANY Si hatches for those years had the abs option.
i believe the 99-00 civic si had an option of abs. not sure.
i would look at getting a real brake setup such as the wilwood setup stated above.
i believe the 99-00 civic si had an option of abs. not sure.
i would look at getting a real brake setup such as the wilwood setup stated above.
08-03-2003, 04:32 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (DSeriesBKilla)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DSeriesBKilla »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">USDM Civics have ABS? I didn't know that....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Is this some kind of inside joke?
Abs has been an option on civics since 94 I believe... I KNOW that my friends 4door has it on his 95 ex.
And to answer your question... NO you will not be stopping as fast as an itr... unless your car is lighter than it should be... then maybe but I still doubt it...
You'd need at least a bigger master/booster and probobly bigger front brakes.. rears certainly wouldn't hurt either...
Is this some kind of inside joke?
Abs has been an option on civics since 94 I believe... I KNOW that my friends 4door has it on his 95 ex.
And to answer your question... NO you will not be stopping as fast as an itr... unless your car is lighter than it should be... then maybe but I still doubt it...
You'd need at least a bigger master/booster and probobly bigger front brakes.. rears certainly wouldn't hurt either...
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08-03-2003, 04:34 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (Peagreenhatch)
The rear disc will do very little in helping 60-0 braking. Now, if you did a larger rotor w/ 4-pot caliper up front, then yes, with enough fluid pressure you would have better braking than the ITR.
08-03-2003, 04:34 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (NonovUrbizniz)
nope...no inside joke...i have yet to see or talk to anyone who has ABS on a civic....i know Canadian EXs have rear discs....that's about the best brake option i have seen on a civic....
08-03-2003, 04:37 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (EKology)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKology »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The rear disc will do very little in helping 60-0 braking. Now, if you did a larger rotor w/ 4-pot caliper up front, then yes, with enough fluid pressure you would have better braking than the ITR.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats what im looking for. So there is no way to work the stock brake size of 10.2 with stock calipers? Is there a 4 pot for stock Ek brakes? Im working on keeping the weight down. What all aplies here?
1.amount of fluid pushed
2.tires
3.weight of car
4.amount of rotor surface
5.stiffness of lines
please add
if your not seeing my idea yet, its to brake better with out going larger rotor size or adding a lug.
thats what im looking for. So there is no way to work the stock brake size of 10.2 with stock calipers? Is there a 4 pot for stock Ek brakes? Im working on keeping the weight down. What all aplies here?
1.amount of fluid pushed
2.tires
3.weight of car
4.amount of rotor surface
5.stiffness of lines
please add
if your not seeing my idea yet, its to brake better with out going larger rotor size or adding a lug.
08-03-2003, 04:49 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (EKology)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKology »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The rear disc will do very little in helping 60-0 braking. Now, if you did a larger rotor w/ 4-pot caliper up front, then yes, with enough fluid pressure you would have better braking than the ITR.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's just not true... I had SERIOUS nose dive problems with my stock drums... when I swapped to the rear disk the nose dive was gone and the braking distance was SERIOUSLY reduced.
Think of it this way... once the car dives forward during braking even a little it almost doubles the amount of weight on those tires... so your brakes may have LOTS more stopping power but they can't do anything because your tires have no more grip...
If you have balanced brakes then each caliper/rotor can work harder w/o causing lock up from un-even weight dist.
That's just not true... I had SERIOUS nose dive problems with my stock drums... when I swapped to the rear disk the nose dive was gone and the braking distance was SERIOUSLY reduced.
Think of it this way... once the car dives forward during braking even a little it almost doubles the amount of weight on those tires... so your brakes may have LOTS more stopping power but they can't do anything because your tires have no more grip...
If you have balanced brakes then each caliper/rotor can work harder w/o causing lock up from un-even weight dist.
08-03-2003, 04:59 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That's just not true... I had SERIOUS nose dive problems with my stock drums... when I swapped to the rear disk the nose dive was gone and the braking distance was SERIOUSLY reduced.
Think of it this way... once the car dives forward during braking even a little it almost doubles the amount of weight on those tires... so your brakes may have LOTS more stopping power but they can't do anything because your tires have no more grip...
If you have balanced brakes then each caliper/rotor can work harder w/o causing lock up from un-even weight dist.</TD></TR></TABLE>
very true and very good theory
That's just not true... I had SERIOUS nose dive problems with my stock drums... when I swapped to the rear disk the nose dive was gone and the braking distance was SERIOUSLY reduced.
Think of it this way... once the car dives forward during braking even a little it almost doubles the amount of weight on those tires... so your brakes may have LOTS more stopping power but they can't do anything because your tires have no more grip...
If you have balanced brakes then each caliper/rotor can work harder w/o causing lock up from un-even weight dist.</TD></TR></TABLE>
very true and very good theory
08-03-2003, 06:35 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That's just not true... I had SERIOUS nose dive problems with my stock drums... when I swapped to the rear disk the nose dive was gone and the braking distance was SERIOUSLY reduced.
Think of it this way... once the car dives forward during braking even a little it almost doubles the amount of weight on those tires... so your brakes may have LOTS more stopping power but they can't do anything because your tires have no more grip...
If you have balanced brakes then each caliper/rotor can work harder w/o causing lock up from un-even weight dist.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well considering the effort and money that goes into a rear disc conversion it, in my opinion, is not worth it for the sole purpose of 60-0. If this was for tracking pursposes, then ofcourse, a rear disc would deffinately be needed in order to balance the breaking. Your theory would hold more truth if the car in question was not equipped with ABS, but the point of ABS is for the loss of traction not to happen. Therefore, i still believe that the rear discs will help the balance and are necessary for a track car, but they won't do enough for 60-0 to make it worth doing.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by peagreenhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1.amount of fluid pushed
2.tires
3.weight of car
4.amount of rotor surface
5.stiffness of lines
</TD></TR></TABLE>
About there being a 4-pot caliper for the stock 10.2's...I don't know, but I would drop fastbrakes a line to see what they can do for you. Be sure to mention your ABS situation since it will change everything. The amount of fluid, weight of the car (not only the weight, but the weight balance), largest possible pad-rotor contact patch, very sticky tires, and also brake balnace. Take care of those and you're golden.
That's just not true... I had SERIOUS nose dive problems with my stock drums... when I swapped to the rear disk the nose dive was gone and the braking distance was SERIOUSLY reduced.
Think of it this way... once the car dives forward during braking even a little it almost doubles the amount of weight on those tires... so your brakes may have LOTS more stopping power but they can't do anything because your tires have no more grip...
If you have balanced brakes then each caliper/rotor can work harder w/o causing lock up from un-even weight dist.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well considering the effort and money that goes into a rear disc conversion it, in my opinion, is not worth it for the sole purpose of 60-0. If this was for tracking pursposes, then ofcourse, a rear disc would deffinately be needed in order to balance the breaking. Your theory would hold more truth if the car in question was not equipped with ABS, but the point of ABS is for the loss of traction not to happen. Therefore, i still believe that the rear discs will help the balance and are necessary for a track car, but they won't do enough for 60-0 to make it worth doing.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by peagreenhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1.amount of fluid pushed
2.tires
3.weight of car
4.amount of rotor surface
5.stiffness of lines
</TD></TR></TABLE>
About there being a 4-pot caliper for the stock 10.2's...I don't know, but I would drop fastbrakes a line to see what they can do for you. Be sure to mention your ABS situation since it will change everything. The amount of fluid, weight of the car (not only the weight, but the weight balance), largest possible pad-rotor contact patch, very sticky tires, and also brake balnace. Take care of those and you're golden.
08-03-2003, 09:06 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (EKology)
Ok, you are missing what you REALLY need in order stop better. Get good pads, good brake fluid, and some bremo BLANK rotors. The crossdrilled and slotted will INCREASE your braking distance in any situation except a FULL RACE one. I would go w/ Hawk HPs or Axxis Ultimates for pads, they will perform very well. Also Valvoline DOT 4 fluid works very well and is widely available, but there are pricey fluids that perform better out on the market if you want to look a lil harder. Next go with the stainless lines and a bigger master cylinder. Then and only then if you want, go with the disc rears. Rick
08-03-2003, 09:57 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (RickChew)
all you guys are helping out alot. Why do you guys turn away when it comes to abs? I like the way it works and how it works for me.
08-03-2003, 10:03 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (Peagreenhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Peagreenhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">all you guys are helping out alot. Why do you guys turn away when it comes to abs? I like the way it works and how it works for me. </TD></TR></TABLE>
it feels like u have no controle. My cuzin has a lancer evo and he drives my bro's Si and he is like why does ur car feel like it stops better then mine. And he has an evo. Abs is a good thing for the people who cant stop for them selves. But if u ask an true race car drive they will tell u abs is gay. I was watching the rally drivers testing the STI and the EVO and the only complaint they had was the ABS. they said it does the thinking for you. SO what i said before was true, abs sucks for people who know what they are doing.
it feels like u have no controle. My cuzin has a lancer evo and he drives my bro's Si and he is like why does ur car feel like it stops better then mine. And he has an evo. Abs is a good thing for the people who cant stop for them selves. But if u ask an true race car drive they will tell u abs is gay. I was watching the rally drivers testing the STI and the EVO and the only complaint they had was the ABS. they said it does the thinking for you. SO what i said before was true, abs sucks for people who know what they are doing.
08-03-2003, 10:15 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (gezer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gezer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
it feels like u have no controle. My cuzin has a lancer evo and he drives my bro's Si and he is like why does ur car feel like it stops better then mine. And he has an evo. Abs is a good thing for the people who cant stop for them selves. But if u ask an true race car drive they will tell u abs is gay. I was watching the rally drivers testing the STI and the EVO and the only complaint they had was the ABS. they said it does the thinking for you. SO what i said before was true, abs sucks for people who know what they are doing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wouldnt you say that, that depends on the car? Every car has a different system. Every car has a different setup. That means the ITR abs could feel good with added control and STI could suck ***.
it feels like u have no controle. My cuzin has a lancer evo and he drives my bro's Si and he is like why does ur car feel like it stops better then mine. And he has an evo. Abs is a good thing for the people who cant stop for them selves. But if u ask an true race car drive they will tell u abs is gay. I was watching the rally drivers testing the STI and the EVO and the only complaint they had was the ABS. they said it does the thinking for you. SO what i said before was true, abs sucks for people who know what they are doing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wouldnt you say that, that depends on the car? Every car has a different system. Every car has a different setup. That means the ITR abs could feel good with added control and STI could suck ***.
08-03-2003, 10:50 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (Peagreenhatch)
all abs runs of the same system, they might seem a bit different but overall it is still abs. Now if you like abs that's coo for you iam not trying to hamper that, but i feel for you to tell me that i dont know what iam talking about is a low blow. I didnt start anything with you, i just stated what most people believe about abs. which would be including me, but if you like it thats coo do your thing
08-04-2003, 12:52 AM
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Re: "Brake" it down (gezer)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gezer »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">all abs runs of the same system, they might seem a bit different but overall it is still abs. Now if you like abs that's coo for you iam not trying to hamper that, but i feel for you to tell me that i dont know what iam talking about is a low blow. I didnt start anything with you, i just stated what most people believe about abs. which would be including me, but if you like it thats coo do your thing </TD></TR></TABLE>
low blow? Dont know what your talking about? Lets all calm down. youve got the wrong idea, If I asked you a question above, it was sincere.
Chill out and thanks for the help
</TD></TR></TABLE>low blow? Dont know what your talking about? Lets all calm down. youve got the wrong idea, If I asked you a question above, it was sincere.
Chill out and thanks for the help
08-04-2003, 10:45 AM
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Re: "Brake" it down (EKology)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKology »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Well considering the effort and money that goes into a rear disc conversion it, in my opinion, is not worth it for the sole purpose of 60-0. If this was for tracking pursposes, then ofcourse, a rear disc would deffinately be needed in order to balance the breaking. [b] Your theory would hold more truth if the car in question was not equipped with ABS, but the point of ABS is for the loss of traction not to happen.[b] Therefore, i still believe that the rear discs will help the balance and are necessary for a track car, but they won't do enough for 60-0 to make it worth doing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Even with abs the braking distance will be INCREASED by unbalanced brakes... the front dives... it STARTS to slip (because it's putting more weight on the front) so the abs kicks in DECREASING your braking distance... the more tendency for traction loss the car has the more often the abs will engage SLOWING DOWN the braking process... The more you use ALL of the 4 tires to their maximum grip for stopping the better the distances will be.... the more nose dive the more slippage or abs engagement... both of which lead to WORSE braking distance.
The reason most people don't like abs is because it INCREASES braking distance... and because it puts you out of control of the brakes...
As far as the other poster about crossdrilleds increasing your distance... YOU ARE WRONG...
I got JUST front cross drilled rotors with stock pads and it stops MUCH faster then it did before...
With the addition of rear disk my stopping distances where reduced even more...
I'm not trying to start **** but all of you seem to be talking from "thread-experience" not actual... if you had ever done a rear disk conversion you'd KNOW that they help dramatically. abs or not...
If rear disk isn't so helpful then why are they on ALL better cars... You don't see the cheap cars coming out of the factory with disk and the nice ones coming with drums....
I was TOTALLY going to do before and after measurements but never did... now I'm SUPER pissed because I KNOW it was dramatically inhanced...
on me.
Well considering the effort and money that goes into a rear disc conversion it, in my opinion, is not worth it for the sole purpose of 60-0. If this was for tracking pursposes, then ofcourse, a rear disc would deffinately be needed in order to balance the breaking. [b] Your theory would hold more truth if the car in question was not equipped with ABS, but the point of ABS is for the loss of traction not to happen.[b] Therefore, i still believe that the rear discs will help the balance and are necessary for a track car, but they won't do enough for 60-0 to make it worth doing.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Even with abs the braking distance will be INCREASED by unbalanced brakes... the front dives... it STARTS to slip (because it's putting more weight on the front) so the abs kicks in DECREASING your braking distance... the more tendency for traction loss the car has the more often the abs will engage SLOWING DOWN the braking process... The more you use ALL of the 4 tires to their maximum grip for stopping the better the distances will be.... the more nose dive the more slippage or abs engagement... both of which lead to WORSE braking distance.
The reason most people don't like abs is because it INCREASES braking distance... and because it puts you out of control of the brakes...
As far as the other poster about crossdrilleds increasing your distance... YOU ARE WRONG...
I got JUST front cross drilled rotors with stock pads and it stops MUCH faster then it did before...
With the addition of rear disk my stopping distances where reduced even more...
I'm not trying to start **** but all of you seem to be talking from "thread-experience" not actual... if you had ever done a rear disk conversion you'd KNOW that they help dramatically. abs or not...
If rear disk isn't so helpful then why are they on ALL better cars... You don't see the cheap cars coming out of the factory with disk and the nice ones coming with drums....
I was TOTALLY going to do before and after measurements but never did... now I'm SUPER pissed because I KNOW it was dramatically inhanced...
on me.
08-04-2003, 03:53 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (NonovUrbizniz)
see i never comented on the rear disc i think its vert helpful My drums suck. Iam throwing gsr on my hb. I was just answering to the abs thing
p.s no bad intentions what so ever
p.s no bad intentions what so ever
08-04-2003, 05:34 PM
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Re: "Brake" it down (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Even with abs the braking distance will be INCREASED by unbalanced brakes... the front dives... it STARTS to slip (because it's putting more weight on the front) so the abs kicks in DECREASING your braking distance... the more tendency for traction loss the car has the more often the abs will engage SLOWING DOWN the braking process... The more you use ALL of the 4 tires to their maximum grip for stopping the better the distances will be.... the more nose dive the more slippage or abs engagement... both of which lead to WORSE braking distance.
The reason most people don't like abs is because it INCREASES braking distance... and because it puts you out of control of the brakes...
With the addition of rear disk my stopping distances where reduced even more...
I'm not trying to start **** but all of you seem to be talking from "thread-experience" not actual... if you had ever done a rear disk conversion you'd KNOW that they help dramatically. abs or not...
If rear disk isn't so helpful then why are they on ALL better cars... You don't see the cheap cars coming out of the factory with disk and the nice ones coming with drums....
I was TOTALLY going to do before and after measurements but never did... now I'm SUPER pissed because I KNOW it was dramatically inhanced... on me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, the car will nose-dive during hard braking, even more so without rear discs, but if the front calipers and rotors are large and strong enough they will still be able to effectively slow the car down. The intial bite that larger calipers/pads and rotors will provide will essentially be enough to slow the car without letting the tires lock up. Sure if you just stomp on the brakes the car will obviously fall into a sever nose-dive and the ABS will kick in making the car's 60-0 much longer, but if the brakes are applied with smooth and constant pressure the larger front brake system should be able to effectively slow down the vehicle without causing a loss of traction and/or the activation of the ABS system. Rear discs are standard equipment on many cars, especially heavier ones, because of the fact that they balance out the overall braking of the car since sending the car into a nose dive will cause the car to have extremely poor handeling which limits its ability to dodge or move around road hazards while braking. Lighter cars, such as some civics, won't suffer too much without rear discs because of their lighter weight.
As for the test, I too am planning to do the same. I have had my GSR rear disc conversion sitting in my hatch for a couple of months now, but before i do it I am planning to do both 40-0 and 60-0 before and after tests.
And this is not from "thread experience". I have riden in many cars with rear disc conversions, have helped perform rear disc conversions, and have seen people on the track with stock front brakes and only rear discs without any other mods. I think common sense would explain that with the stock amount of fluid pressure, stock brake lines, and stock proportioning valves on a car that came with rear drums that there just isn't enough pressure to have those discs opperating at full potential and having a dramatic impact on braking distances. Therefore, in order to cut down my 60-0 times I would improve the front brakes before i even think about touching the rears.
Even with abs the braking distance will be INCREASED by unbalanced brakes... the front dives... it STARTS to slip (because it's putting more weight on the front) so the abs kicks in DECREASING your braking distance... the more tendency for traction loss the car has the more often the abs will engage SLOWING DOWN the braking process... The more you use ALL of the 4 tires to their maximum grip for stopping the better the distances will be.... the more nose dive the more slippage or abs engagement... both of which lead to WORSE braking distance.
The reason most people don't like abs is because it INCREASES braking distance... and because it puts you out of control of the brakes...
With the addition of rear disk my stopping distances where reduced even more...
I'm not trying to start **** but all of you seem to be talking from "thread-experience" not actual... if you had ever done a rear disk conversion you'd KNOW that they help dramatically. abs or not...
If rear disk isn't so helpful then why are they on ALL better cars... You don't see the cheap cars coming out of the factory with disk and the nice ones coming with drums....
I was TOTALLY going to do before and after measurements but never did... now I'm SUPER pissed because I KNOW it was dramatically inhanced...
on me.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yes, the car will nose-dive during hard braking, even more so without rear discs, but if the front calipers and rotors are large and strong enough they will still be able to effectively slow the car down. The intial bite that larger calipers/pads and rotors will provide will essentially be enough to slow the car without letting the tires lock up. Sure if you just stomp on the brakes the car will obviously fall into a sever nose-dive and the ABS will kick in making the car's 60-0 much longer, but if the brakes are applied with smooth and constant pressure the larger front brake system should be able to effectively slow down the vehicle without causing a loss of traction and/or the activation of the ABS system. Rear discs are standard equipment on many cars, especially heavier ones, because of the fact that they balance out the overall braking of the car since sending the car into a nose dive will cause the car to have extremely poor handeling which limits its ability to dodge or move around road hazards while braking. Lighter cars, such as some civics, won't suffer too much without rear discs because of their lighter weight.
As for the test, I too am planning to do the same. I have had my GSR rear disc conversion sitting in my hatch for a couple of months now, but before i do it I am planning to do both 40-0 and 60-0 before and after tests.
And this is not from "thread experience". I have riden in many cars with rear disc conversions, have helped perform rear disc conversions, and have seen people on the track with stock front brakes and only rear discs without any other mods. I think common sense would explain that with the stock amount of fluid pressure, stock brake lines, and stock proportioning valves on a car that came with rear drums that there just isn't enough pressure to have those discs opperating at full potential and having a dramatic impact on braking distances. Therefore, in order to cut down my 60-0 times I would improve the front brakes before i even think about touching the rears.
08-04-2003, 06:57 PM
#23
Re: "Brake" it down (EKology)
The traction limits of a tire are the traction limits of a tire... sure the less you incure nose dive the less likely it is to lock up... however once you have to get on them seriously they (bigger caliper/rotors) WILL lock up the tires... MORE SO then the smaller set up would.
The stock proportioning valve on drum cars send MORE pressure to the fronts then the prop valve for rear disk...
While adjusted drums do balance the stock setup sufficiently; they go out of adjustment in under 1000 mi... which is all but useless (especially considering there's no rear access to the adjuster).
As far as bigger master... obviously that will send more pressure.
I'm not trying to start a fight by any means but I'm tired of people saying it doesn't effect much less DRASTICALLY improve braking distance when you switch to rear disk...
As I've stated in other threads... I do a LOT of highway driving and at least once a week I have to SLAM on my brakes for all they're worth...
With my old drums (even DIRECTLY after a REALLY tight adjustment) I would come DAMN close to and sometimes hit the car in front of me...
Now with rear disk and NO change in following distance or general driving speed I can put space between me and just about ANY car no matter how hard they get on their brakes.
The stock proportioning valve on drum cars send MORE pressure to the fronts then the prop valve for rear disk...
While adjusted drums do balance the stock setup sufficiently; they go out of adjustment in under 1000 mi... which is all but useless (especially considering there's no rear access to the adjuster).
As far as bigger master... obviously that will send more pressure.
I'm not trying to start a fight by any means but I'm tired of people saying it doesn't effect much less DRASTICALLY improve braking distance when you switch to rear disk...
As I've stated in other threads... I do a LOT of highway driving and at least once a week I have to SLAM on my brakes for all they're worth...
With my old drums (even DIRECTLY after a REALLY tight adjustment) I would come DAMN close to and sometimes hit the car in front of me...
Now with rear disk and NO change in following distance or general driving speed I can put space between me and just about ANY car no matter how hard they get on their brakes.
08-04-2003, 07:05 PM
#24
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Re: "Brake" it down (NonovUrbizniz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NonovUrbizniz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The stock proportioning valve on drum cars send MORE pressure to the fronts then the prop valve for rear disk...</TD></TR></TABLE>
And this is part of my point for the car in question. Since it sends more fluid to the front, then swapping the drums out for discs isn't going to do much unless you start pushing more fluid its way, right?
Nobody's starting a fight at all, I'm not one bit annoyed or angered by your responses. They are your opinion, as my posts are mine.
The stock proportioning valve on drum cars send MORE pressure to the fronts then the prop valve for rear disk...</TD></TR></TABLE>
And this is part of my point for the car in question. Since it sends more fluid to the front, then swapping the drums out for discs isn't going to do much unless you start pushing more fluid its way, right?
Nobody's starting a fight at all, I'm not one bit annoyed or angered by your responses. They are your opinion, as my posts are mine.
08-04-2003, 07:14 PM
#25
Re: "Brake" it down (EKology)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EKology »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
And this is part of my point for the car in question. Since it sends more fluid to the front, then swapping the drums out for discs isn't going to do much unless you start pushing more fluid its way, right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No... because that's the point... you send the same amount of pressure it's just better distributed (given you don't swap masters (which I did))... Less to the front (preventing nose dive)... and more to the rear (because they're more capable now)...
I'm just saying from driving a car with 4 wheel drums... there's just NO arguement for drum brakes imo... they suck... suck butt... the ONLY thing they are good for is a parking brake...
And this is part of my point for the car in question. Since it sends more fluid to the front, then swapping the drums out for discs isn't going to do much unless you start pushing more fluid its way, right?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
No... because that's the point... you send the same amount of pressure it's just better distributed (given you don't swap masters (which I did))... Less to the front (preventing nose dive)... and more to the rear (because they're more capable now)...
I'm just saying from driving a car with 4 wheel drums... there's just NO arguement for drum brakes imo... they suck... suck butt... the ONLY thing they are good for is a parking brake...