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Since the fix, engine is taking much longer to fuel up. And MPG is a little lower. Why is Honda doing this?
i have to conclude that avoiding detonation is a higher priority than fuel economy. However, it doesn’t make sense. OK, engines won’t have busted lower end components due to detonation. But they will have failure due to lubrication issues. They haven’t solved anything that I can see.
this article helped me understand why they are overfueling to cool combustion.
even the worst manufacturers out there are smart enough to send their vehicles to extreme cold environments for testing, and how an engineer cant miss rising oil levels on a dipstick is beyond me. My 25 dollar used oil analysis test can reveal water and fuel levels, manufacturers with millions of dollars in testing apparatus at their disposal can't find an issue like this ?
Fuel dilution in direct injected turbo motors has been an issue for many years first started by Mazda, then experienced by GM and Ford. Surely Honda would have that on their radar when they decided to develop DIT engines, they were late to the party but that should have been to their benefit to resolve known issues well advertised by other engine platforms. It really baffles me.
I am sure the cooling changes are meant to reduce detonation issues as they need to lean out the fuel mixtures to potentially reduce fuel dilution, using excess fuel at low speed operating conditions was supposed to reduce the frequency of detonation (low speed preignition). I think my car runs a bit weaker after the reflash, I have no proof, it is just a guess based on how it drives now. Hard to say about fuel economy as weather conditions here are all over the map lately and I do lots of engine warm up with my remote start. The car gets traded in next week so I won't even bother checking the dipstick to see if there has been any change since the reflash.
I put 2000 kms on my new WRX with the 2L DIT engine in very cold ambient weather conditions. There has been no noticeable change in oil level and the oil is still a golden clear colour. The Civic was the complete opposite after 2000 kms.
Just checked my oil...2,800 miles since dealer performed change and it’s a solid 3/4” above the full mark and smells like gas....had the recall/oil change done at 14,168 now right at 17,000 miles now. I will be making a trip to the dealer this week. Will probably get a black stone oil analysis kit to just to document everything...
^ I suspected that may be the case, I didn't have much faith in the programming changes they made. I sold my Civic shortly after the TSB and I stopped worrying about the issue at that time. Before the TSB my oil level growth was about the same as you experienced after the TSB, sorry to hear this is still going on.
I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a 19 Civic ex-l and just read about oil dilution issues' with these engines.
Anyone here heard of this or have this issue. Is it a big concern? I've done some reading and understand it impacts cars more in cold weather climates.
I would assume oil change frequency would help with this issue. I'm one to change mine every 3,000 -5000 miles.
Thx
I've been told that the issue had been resolved. Note that changing your oil more frequently will not really help. Change it when your car tells you to... IOLM system (intelligent oil life monitoring) is here for that!
I didn't get the 1.5T for that reason. I'm a fan of N/A Honda engines Anyhow, the only trim where the 1.5T is available here in Canada in 2019 is the Touring, which is just too expensive for what it is.
Nope, not that simple. First off, "avoiding any boost" is almost unavoidable, second, start and go is the best for engines, the 1.5 included, because it avoids too much idle time which, in and of itself will lead to fuel dilution of the oil. Yes, Honda has provided a flash, however, the jury is still out on whether the fix has actually provided any relief.
The fact is, unless these cars are driven for durations long enough allow the fuel to vaporize out of the oil at least a couple of times per week, then there will be fuel dilution.
What do you mean by ''start and go''? It's NOT best for engines. I agree that idling is bad for any engines, but please wait at least 15-30 seconds for the oil to circulate through the pump and engine before taking off, especially when it's cold outside (thicker oil = slower circulation).
What do you mean by ''start and go''? It's NOT best for engines. I agree that idling is bad for any engines, but please wait at least 15-30 seconds for the oil to circulate through the pump and engine before taking off, especially when it's cold outside (thicker oil = slower circulation).
Sorry, there are a few things which you do not understand. Your engine uses a positive displacement oil pump, that means if the engine is turning, the oil is flowing; simple fact of life. If oil is not flowing to the top end of your engine within two to three seconds, then something is wrong with your engine.
Sorry, there are a few things which you do not understand. Your engine uses a positive displacement oil pump, that means if the engine is turning, the oil is flowing; simple fact of life. If oil is not flowing to the top end of your engine within two to three seconds, then something is wrong with your engine.
Have you ever seen your oil viscosity at -30F? Basic physics. There are also a few things you don't understand. Please remind me of never buying a car you owned. Fortunately, most modern cars come equipped with systems to prevent ignorant drivers from driving their cars ''like they stole it'' to protect components when they're simply not ready/warm enough.
Come on dude, be real. Assuming an oil rated for -30°F is used, say a 0W-20, it will easily be flowing within two seconds, in fact, even if you are being dumb and using a 10W-40, it will still be flowing at two seconds. What you don't seem to understand is oil is not compressible, and since the pump is positive displacement, the oil absolutely MUST go somewhere, and that somewhere is the oil galleries, including all of the way to the top of the engine.
I apologize in advance for not having a better understanding of the issue. I came across this reported problem unfortunately after I purchase my 2019 Honda Civic LX.
So am I wrong to assume this a primarily found only in the 1.5L Turbocharged Earth Dream Engines. I ask because my engine specs seem to suggest that this is not an issue for my vehicle. I am hoping someone could provide me a wider understanding and more specifically if this effects my Engine.
My Engine is a 10th Generation K20C2 2L 4 Cylinder DOHC Car MFG Alliston, Ontario
The fuel Delivery/Fuel Injection Type states a SFI or Sequential Fuel Injection
Oil Recommended 0W 20
However it does have a label on the engine cover that stated, "EarthDream", and this is what has me confused/worried.
Does this engine suffer the same oil dilution issues as I have been reading about.
Secondly, can it not be mitigated by more frequent oil changes. Say every 8000km instead of the 12k they seem to recommend
This is from the Honda CR-V section and has addressed this matter.
Originally Posted by Davey7847
Being from a Honda dealership background I'll explain this issue simply. You are correct in assuming long drives at operating temperature will mitigate this complaint. The rings seating isn't changing much however as the oil control rings will drag unburned gasoline into the crankcase and and cold ( wider) compression ring gaps will allow the fuel to get there.
The problem two fold.
First the DFI system is injecting fuel directly into the combustion chambers after the intake valve is closed. During warm up, the tolerances are wider than an engine at operation temperatures. Some fuel gets past the rings. This in itself isn't unusual. However DFI can make this benign situation worse.
Second, these are thin wall casted blocks. So the aluminum block easily dissipates heat and warms up slowly. If this engine idles for 25 minutes it will not warm up.
Consequently, the cooler crankcase will not easily vaporize and dissipate the fuel in the form of vapors through the PCV system. Because the warm up is so slow there is allot of condensation being produced within the block. Short trips make this worse in colder climates; this is the predominant issue.
The software fix for this ( Honda Product Update) involves remapping the cold start fuel delivery and also prioritizes engine warm up over cabin heat. In effect, the HVAC software was also rewritten in the update to not spool up the HVAC blower ( in auto mode) during warm up to allow more heat to build up in the block.
In cold climates, Honda is marketing 110v plug in cabin heaters ( interior warmers) to preheat the cabin.
It is still a great engine and it responds well to performance tuning.
My advice is to get a catch can in the PVC system if you plan on owning one for 10 years. It has been found that with DFI and cold blocks, allot of water vapor is coming into the PCV system and issues are popping up regularly with the injection nozzels plugging up on 4 cyl and V6 engines. The results are multiple and random DTCs and the repair is a complete replacement of all of the injectors; not cheap if out of warranty. Some repair shops are finding an excessive amount if carbon building up behind the intake valves because fuel is not sprayed behind the valves in a DFI engine. Manufacturers are now seeing the benefit of having port injection in complimentary operation with a DFI system to mitigate all of these issues.
02-21-2019, 06:54 AM
Re: Oil dilution problem in 1.5 turbo engines
Anyhow, the only trim where the 1.5T is available here in Canada in 2019 is the Touring, which is just too expensive for what it is.
