TheSeaIsSilent

As a lot of us have been slapped silly by the new hatchback (in a good way), myself included, I kept my eye & wallet on the soon to be release Si model. I'm excited to have a sporty trim with bells and whistles, plus the additional 25hp is pleasing no doubt about it. But after considering the main ingredient, the new 1.5t motor, is identical to the lower trims, minus LSD and a turbo shaft change, its hard to convince myself to get the plain stylings of the coupe or the sedan over the aggressive hatchback.
There are many other parts to this internal struggle, such the wants of six speed transmissions which are almost as rare as a unicorn galloping over a rainbow bridge. I've driven a hatchback sport manual, and it was good, not the best thing in this world, It was nice. I know upgrades are always available in the aftermarket world, especially with the the head unit/navigation/sound department.
So with all of these thoughts popping into my head, I'm trying to prioritize the wants for the car. I think having an emotional feeling about how your car looks to your is very important, hatchback is king in the looks department, no doubt. Between the drivetrain, it used to be easy to say you wanted the Si model. IT HAD THE BETTER MOTOR! Not really the case now. So after thinking about this, I'm sort of confused on with trim to get. Your thoughts are appreciated and welcomed!

JRCivic1

I have the same feelings. I was so looking forward to the Si having the K20C1 like the new CTR, only "de-tuned"... and was SERIOUSLY disappointed when it was revealed that the Si would have the same engine as the EX. This hasn't happened since the Si of 1995. Honda has since thought that the Si trim level would have a larger, more powerful engine package over the typical commuter LX and EX trim levels... which was the right path. So I, like you, am disappointed that Honda has "regressed" and made the Si only marginally more powerful than the other siblings. So your decision is now based on a handful of upgrades that MAY entice you past the styling. I haven't heard about the electronic options and convenience features that will be offered on the Si, but here is what I do know. You will get a LSD, active dampeners, aero enhancements and vastly improved sport seats. So is that worth giving up the hatch styling ???

jdblock

The Si has always had a lower displacement though. So not really out of the norm here.

I'd also say power has been slightly higher than the Ex. The 99 Si was 160 hp and Ex was about 125. Not a big change from then and today.

JRCivic1

What ?!? Beginning in the '99-00 Civic Si, the engine was the same displacement at 1.6L, but differed dramatically in the cylinder head and power output. The 127 HP Civic EX had 26% LESS power than the 160 HP DOHC Si. In 2002, the Civic EX had a 130 HP 1.7L SOHC engine and the Si had a 2.0L 160 HP DOHC engine. In 2006, the gap widened giving the Si a DOHC 197 HP engine whereas the Civic EX had a 1.8L SOHC 140 HP engine. In 2012, the Civic EX stayed the same and the Si grabbed a larger 2.4L 201 HP DOHC engine.

Fast forward to the 2016+ car, and the EX/Sport and the Si share the same 1.5L DOHC engine platform... the Sport making 180 HP and the Si 205. This is only a 14% increase in power, whereas the power increase from the 6th gen platform to the ninth gen was 26%, 23%,41% and 43% respectively. So the trend for the Si over the last four generations has been a trend of increased performance (giving a mulligan to the '02 Si... that car didn't get much love anyway). And now... the same engine and a modest bump in power ??? Wrong direction Honda.

jdblock

Lower displacement than the rest of Honda"s engines.

Can't ruin Type R sales. Right?

JRCivic1

Not necessarily lower displacement, but lower power. It is likely that the death of the RSX-S (Integra) was the 8G Civic Si... very similar power output AND a LSD for less money.

I agree with you on not ruining Type R sales... Honda won't make that mistake again. I just think they could use the same basic engine (K20C1) platform and "detune" and/or deliver it with a smaller turbo and milder camshaft. That should protect the CTR... not to mention that the exclusivity (limited annual availability) will keep the demand, and sales price, very high. They will sell every single one. Then, when all of the CTR's are spoken for and there are buyers who want the next best thing... the Si is the choice. Using the 2.0L engine over the 1.5L would close the gap on power... and keep more of those buyers in a Honda instead of choosing another brand.

jdblock

I'd buy the Si over the R. I don't like the flair the R puts off. The Si looks like it can fly under the radar.

Fk8_CTR

CTR All the way. Fastest Civic front wheel drive made to date. Buy it. Will be rare and will hold its value in the long Run.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I'll be getting one to match my 2000 EM1. This new SI's power output can be increased with just a flash to be over 230hp

Rudy Lara

The si is going to run about 25-29k correct? Also, being that the Si is running on 20.3lbs vs the 16.5lbs, might want to look into tuning for more boost.
http://www.autoblog.com/2017/05/01/m...-hondata-tune/

MR Rodgers

I bought a sport 2 weeks ago and the main reason I didn't wait on the si is I wanted the hatch. It may not be as fast but it's still a fun car to drive when I want it to be. I've owned multiple gen Si's and the added torque and size make this easily my favorite over them. My only complaints are the seats and the radio but those could be changed if I wanted to. If I ever wanted the power of an si all I would need is a flash pro. After weighing the pros and cons of both, the sport was just the better buy for me.

ILCD5

The Si engine has a different turbo charger, intake cam, pistons and rods than the 1.5 EX-T and Sport engines
FWIW The intake cam on the Sport is also different than the EX 1.5

Shoufer

Having just bought the new SI, It's literally 2k more from the hatchback sport. I wanted the hatchback sport originally but after test driving the SI versus the sport, I loved the SI way more.
So for literally next to nothing, you get a fully loaded car on the inside and a much quicker car on the outside...
I'd give it a chance. I'm just one opinion though.

P.S. a Tune from Hondata puts the SI at around 240hp.
On the HB sport, your barely over the SI at base.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Great to know. Thank you..

GoLowDrew

The middle child always get the short end of the stick. Si is a great car.

I much rather drive 80% of the Si's limit, rather than 30% of the limit of a CTR. (whatever the math comes out, you get the point).

MR Rodgers

With the addition of the si, sport prices are coming down. I got mine for 20.7 +ttl, nobody should pay anything close to msrp on these. Can't go wrong with either car, just gotta decide what you're buying for and what fits your needs.

ericwudi0830

Ya I think this civic si is the most affordable than it has before so its definitely worth a buy. I'd buy one if I could

GoLowDrew

Is that stick or CVT? My area is still hold strong on MSRP. If you want a red, full MSRP. On the less demand colors like silver (no offense to those who prefer it) the most I seen is $750 off.

MR Rodgers

I bought a white cvt. I wanted a manual at first but with the rarity of them I gave up looking. The only one I ever found within 50 miles while I was shopping was red, and I wanted white or black.

GoLowDrew

Good to know.

I have Autotrader set up. Often time, there is no C S HB in manual unless I go outside of 500 miles. And even then, there's like one.

MR Rodgers

When I said don't pay msrp I prolly should've been more specific and said on cvt. There were more than 25 available when I bought mine within 50 miles of cincy so that played a part in negotiations. They told me when I asked about finding me a manual that they might tack on a fee. Have you driven the cvt, or just have to have a manual?

GoLowDrew

Yes, I have driven a CVT and are actually ok with it. I'm not one of those Manual-Jihad type of guys. If there 's no manual around, I'm ok. If there is one sitting side by side, of the same color, model, price, etc....

JRCivic1

I had the opportunity to drive a new Si Coupe last Thursday (6/15), and I have to say that I was impressed with everything about the car EXCEPT the acceleration. The brakes were awesome, the handling is exceptional, the steering and shifter are sharp and precise and the interior is sporty yet comfortable... and all this with a truly affordable price. Hondata has released a FlashPro for the new Si, so we will have to see what level of power gain is realized for this application and if it is enough to make the car GO as swift as it WHOA's !!!

Time will tell.

hlime

I have driven the new si (sedan) on 2 occasions. The first test drive it was hard to get a sense of what the car could do. The test drive was taken on neighbor hood with speed bumps.
The second test drive I was allowed to drive on my own without the sales man. I took the car up to highway speeds and there was plenty power to pass. It was very comfortable car that felt solid and tight. This is a very refined car and not a wilder si as in previous models. I believe Honda priced this car to sell. This is a car you can drive to work every day and if you feel like it tear up the corners in your leisure time. IMO

MR Rodgers

i gotcha. If manual is your preference, fine it's your money. I went from an FA5 to an auto CL9 and it was so bland and boring I had to get something that at least made driving somewhat fun. That's why I convinced myself it had to be a manual, but after test driving the cvt, I decided it was a better option for me. I just passed 2k miles and the exhaust sound on start up and downshifts is starting to remind me of the FA5. Really enjoying the car, and in the next couple weeks I'll be installing a new receiver with CarPlay and some eibach pro kit springs. My only other complaint is the seats, just took a drive to South Carolina and they were killing me. Will be replacing them with something soon I hope.