Zebra

Has anyone experienced an unintended sudden acceleration syndrome in the 2008 Civic LX series? It has occurred about 5 times during the course of ownership - very infrequently (30,000 miles on car). It usually occurs during deceleration - suddenly the engine races uncontrollably, but disappears suddenly also. At first I thought it was accidental foot displacement, but that now has been ruled out. I am bringing it to a dealer to check, but expect them to say they've come up with nothing, as it cannot be reproduced. It is either a sensor glitch or ECU problem, both which are expensive components. I doubt that a dealer would replace these on a "hunch".

Anyone have similiar experiences or have found a remedy?

bee guz

I don't really care for dealers at all, the few times I took cars back for something minor they did what I would have done so rather than put myself thru that I just do the repair myself.

I have a toyota pickup with radio problem, minor but it bugs me, I took it back and I got the story "if we didn't see it, it didn't happen".

I think you will get the same story, my niece had one of those carollas her fist ever new car 2010, that had surging, sudden acceleration, plus she was hit on the drivers side and the air bags didn't deploy, and she got the same story, and was told the car was fine.

She dumped it and got a used lincoln MK she is happier in that used car than she was in the new corolla.

If you can afford to dump it do it, otherwise when it runs wild, I would kick the shifter in to N and shut down the ign if you can.

Zebra

Thanks for that story. That's what I figured - I'd get nowhere with the dealer. Basically, if a problem doesn't come up on the diagnostic readout from the ECU, the dealer is stumped. Glitches are impossible to reproduce on demand, therefore the dealer claims they are the imagination of the owner.

Several years ago my daughter's 2001 Jetta was stalling on turns and the dealer could not figure it out. They began to throw parts at it, hoping they'd just chance fix-it. They began to get indignant when I suggested they were guessing, so I quit going to the dealer.

After Toyotas' experience with the sudden unintended acceleration syndrome, this terminology gets some attention tho. I cancelled the service call to the Honda dealer and will just wait it out for awhile.

bee guz

here is one I heard just the other day, my nephews daughter has a jeep grand Cherokee, and it stalled on left turns only, it turns out to be a warning built in to the jeep that the gas cap was loose or needed replacement.

Believe it or not she replaced the cap and the jeep works like it should.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Do you know WHY dealerships tell you this? It's the same reason computer people tell you the same thing.

Have you ever tried trouble shooting a problem you can never see or replicate?

"Oh my workstation crashes every time I open Microsoft Word! Fix it now!"

Well when I go and open Word and every time I open it the application works just fine, I can't fix an invisible problem. The same applies to a car. If you say "there is a constant idle surge" and the dealership keeps it for a day or two without a single issue what can they do?

bee guz

I have worked for dealerships but it was before electronics took over everything in the car, I know some things can not be found but they are other things dealers just ignore and hope the go away.

The radio for instance in my truck, they know dam well that there is a problem but they refuse to listen hoping you will go away.

My nieces car was the same way with the surging, the cure was dump the car and take a loss that makes dealers happy.

A lady I knew had a new 07 ex coupe the windows keep fogging, the dealer tried to tell her it was normal, I looked in the car and the whole floor was wet from rain getting in and they gave this person a run around and never repaired the car.

I think the dealers are employing a lazy bunch of idiots who want to look at a lcd screen and tell you "everything is normal it is suppose to be like that" OR "they all do that!"

Zebra

Yea, if the ECU doesn't register a problem the dealership techs are stymied. The complex electronics are beyond their capabilities to trouble shoot. The days of the all around mechanic are gone, as the intricacies have become too intense. There are independent experts who trouble shoot for dealerships and local mechanics to locate problems that they can't figure out. These people are usually genius types that think outside of the box and approach an issue with greater logic than the average mechanic. In addition, they utilize a greater array of diagnostic approaches.

On that Jeep Cherokee stalling to indicate a loose gas cap - that is just poor engineering. A loose gas cap will light the 'check engine light' eventually; a stall condition is an invitation to a crash or loss of control. Jeeps are one of the worst vehicles made - the Cherokee is nothing short of a disaster on wheels.

Canuck99

I have worked on Hundreds of civics and know many Techs in all areas and have never heard of an unintended acceleration in any Honda. I am not saying that I have heard it all but in this buisness if one does it there are a few cases reported somewere else. Do some investigating, make sure no debris is getting passed the air filter, make sure your floor mats are secured, go into the dealer with information about when and were and temps and all that, were there anylights on.]

The dealer can be your best friend, i work for a Honda dealer and can say that I know how to fix electrical problems, its the Local garages that repair stuff by looking at there screen and screw a car up( NOT ALL Though) and they come crying to us. If you dont know what your doing dont screw with it, If you dont like that dealer try another. Do NOT group us Techs all in with the few bad ones that are out there. I have 20years electrical diag experiance and Honda provies us with all the tools we need but you have to understsnd the circut first. Just had an example: CRV wipers in-op. lady took it to Bobs garage and without a wireing diagram said the wiper motor was bad...installed an aftermarket one and it still did not work. backprobed the harness and it worked for a few seconds and then sent it to us. I checked it, Installed a Honda Wiper motor that comes with the properly wired sub harness, replaced the blown fuse in the Multiplex and the partially Melted dash harness above the steering colum that they melted by applying power on the wrong wire. end result was the dealer(us) charging in the end 3500$ to the customer. i wished her good luck getting her money out of that garage.

Sorry to jack your post Zebra I agree with the Muffin man , I take it personally when you call us idiots that cannot fix anything... If its not doing what you say its doing there is really nothing to check but wires and connections and most people wont pay for my time to do that!! So go ahead and replace parts if you want to, it may just be a soft set connector who knows. IF you find the fix let me know it will help me out.

Zebra

Perhaps I was too inclusive when referring to a lack of skills in dealership mechanics. Dealerships are notorious for having pretty intense politics in the back room; the service manager often has 'favorites' amongst the mechanics and distributes work accordingly. The service writers are really stressed out, as they undoubtedly have quotas to fulfill; thus suggesting additional services to the customers. When I questioned some decision that was made regarding warranty work, the service writer took me to the service manager, who told me the work was unnecessary and I'd have to pay for it if I wanted it done. The service writer stood there with a sheer look of terror on his face - you could certainly see the pecking order there.
Later I checked the Honda Service Manual and the procedure (alignment of the front end after front strut replacement) that was omitted was included as a step in the manual procedure. Either the service manager was up on a procedual revision, didn't know what he was talking about or was trying to lowbucket on the work - I don't know. The dealership manager never responded to my inquiry after all this, so it left a very negative impression on the quality of work done there.
In addition, a brake flush was done and the reservior was not refilled properly - no attention to detail. Needless to say, I won't be returning there.

PA-Tom

I've experienced exactly what you describe in our 2006 Civic LX. The car has 110,000 miles. The problem started around 40,000 miles and seems to happen around 2 or so times a year (more frequently than you describe). The typical occurrence is when I'm slowing down to stop and the engine suddenly starts racing and the rpm shoots up. I've always managed to stop the car and quickly put the transmission in park. That move results in one last spike in the rpm followed by a sudden fall and back to normal idle. It's pretty scary. I told my wife not to drive the car. It happened just recently and that's why I decided to search it this morning and saw your post. I'm going to call my mechanic this week. I haven't been to the dealer in several years. Let me know what you find out. I'll do likewise.

av911

Define "racing". And when does this "racing" start during the braking? Immediate?

PA-Tom

Av911, Thanks for responding and getting me to put more thought into this situation.

“Racing” is not the best word; it’s just a non-technical way of describing the big jump in rpm (which I can visually see) and the corresponding increase of sound associated with something suddenly whirling much faster. When it does happen, which is not very often at all, everything first seems normal as I’m initially slowing down to a stop sign. Then near the end of the stop, when the velocity has greatly dropped and there is only 20 feet or less before full stop, it suddenly happens. I first hear the loud sound of something whirling much faster and look at the tachometer and see the big jump in rpm. For lack of a better word something is “racing”. I then stay strong on the brake, stop the car, and put the transmission into park. Putting the car into park causes another spike in the already high rpm. Obviously, I put the car into park to restrain it from jumping forward.

I’m not certain about the next part since this event doesn’t happen often. On an earlier incident, I was sure that immediately after getting the car into park the rpm dropped rapidly on its own. However, I remember that on a later occasion I had to slightly depress the gas pedal before the high rpm level dropped. I did so because I reasoned the pedal got stuck.

Up until now, I strongly considered that as I was braking, my foot accidentally touched the gas near the end of the stop. I’m absolutely convinced this could not be the case for this most recent incident. I’ve made a conscious effort this last year to keep my foot centered on the brake pedal and away from the edge. Something else is going on with the engine, transmission, or whatever. I’m not a very technical with cars to know what.

Targa250R

Chances are that this is something related to the i-VTEC function of the R18A1 engine that switches it from "Otto-cycle mode" to "Atkinson-cycle mode" under low-load, constant throttle conditions. This requires the electronic throttle actuator to set the throttle plate wide open while the VTEC system keeps the intake valves open during the compression stroke. I would imagine that some sort of glitch is causing the ECM to see the conditions required to enter the "Atkinson-cycle mode" when it actually shouldn't. This is just pure speculation on my part; I could be totally off-base. There may just be a problem with the APP sensor or a temporary short in the throttle circuit...

Chances are that nobody will be able to determine the exact cause without being able to reliably replicate the problem. A situation that has occurred randomly 5 times over a 30,000-mile period is pretty much impossible to diagnose unless it's a widely-known issue.

av911

How big of a jump is the RPMs? I think it's just the car rev-matching while you're slowing down. Happens to me all the time. Mine revs as high as 3500 RPM.

WOW !

sounds like a TOYOTA lmao sry

94EG8

I've worked in both industries. It sucks. Mechanics aren't gods. If they can't replicate the problem then what do you want them to do? Throw parts at it and hope it goes away? Or tell you then can't find it and just charge you the diagnostic fee. Sure I understand it sucks that the dealership can't figure out your problem but when they can't replicate the problem it's pretty hard.

Btw, i've seen a lot of guys with big feet (or large winter boots) partially depress the gas pedal as they're pushing in the brake pedal, edge of the boot slightly clips the gas pedal. It's not technically pedal missapplication it's a case of pedals spaced very closely.

Targa250R

The car doesn't "rev match." It's the automatic transmission downshifting.

PA-Tom

I had my car check out thoroughly - mechanical, codes, etc. My mechanic said everything was fine; he test drove the car and could not duplicate the problem. I'm thinking that as 94EG8 pointed out, my shoe edge could be hitting the gas pedal as I brake. Even though I considered this and thought I was now keeping my foot in the center of the brake pedal, I observed a couple of times recently where my foot edge was close to the gas pedal. (I kept a flashlight on the front seat and would quickly check my foot position after I stopped). I figure that I brake to complete stop about 2000 times a year, and the problem has happened only twice a year. So the chance is 1 in 1000 that I could catch the edge of my foot on the gas pedal as I brake. It now seems a likely situation to happened on rare occasions, so I have to keep working on centering my foot. I'm done with this thread. Thank you to everyone who got me to think and examine this situation, most especially 94EG8. Best regards, PA-Tom

Zebra

I also considered the slipping foot syndrome as an explanation and could not rule it out; I canceled a dealership check-over as a result. At this point, I will just wait it out to see if it ever occurs again and try to be more aware of the circumstances.