tiresnfrustrated

I have a rear end alignment problems that I am told is due to a defective part that has not been produced/approved by the feds and Honda's legal department for recall. I have show uneven and excessive tire wear and unfortunately have had to have the dealer replace my tires. They replaced the tires, admitted the problem, admitted that they have no solution to the problem, and furthermore knew about the problem when they sold me my 2006 Civic in 10/2006. This is a major issue for Honda and it is putting the dealers in big risk. My right rear tire was especially bad with the steel belts showing at 27,000 miles. I had the car serviced every 3,000 miles (with tire rotation) and not until I took it someplace else did the service person inform me of my problem. I took it back to the dealer and they reluctantly admitted the problem and that the part is slated for recall, but they have no idea when. How many other individual's have had to replace their tires prematurely without knowing the real problem or how many accidents have occured presumably due to a "blow-out" when the true reason is the defective part. I was told by the Service Manager at my dealer that this problem has been known about for "well over a year"!!!!! [IMG][/IMG]

Echo7847

Honda is coming out with updated control arms for the rear to resolve the heavy negative camber issue. Estimated release was early 08 last time we spoke with them.

Give them time to make the replacement components 100% effective. These things take time.

tiresnfrustrated

Thanks for the response. I still have an issue with the fact that I was never informed of this problem and it appears that the general public has not been informed of this problem either. The problem has been known to the Honda dealers and Honda since before I bought my car in 10/2006. 08' seems like quite a while to have to wait for a defective part to be replaced; especially since there has been no recall or service bulletin to the owners (people who have bought the cars). I couldn't in good faith sell my car right now if I had to. I am basically stuck with a car that has a defective part, that was known to the dealer before they sold it to me, and could have caused serious injuries if "I" had not pressed the issue. Both my dealer and American Honda have to shoulder the responsibility here and not the unsuspecting and trusting public. I've looked on the sites that report problems with Honda Civics and found very few references to this "major" safety hazard. I've seen people that have talked about not being able to get their rear end aligned properly and they have posted the alignment statistics and blamed their service center/alignment company instead of Honda. That's a shame. Again, how many people have had to have their tires replaced early due to this problem. At the dealer I was first met with the issue of "tread wear is not covered by your warrenty". Unfortunately, the tread wear issue is not the consumers fault and is the fault of Honda for selling an inferior or defective part. I had my tires rotated and oil changed every time the "orage wrench light" told me I had 10% oil left. When was I going to be informed of the problem and Honda's inability to fix the issue? Hopefully not after a blow-out with my six-year old in the car going down the highway. Well enough of my rant, if the dealer and American Honda doesn't make it right by taking back a defective automobile then there probably will be a class action suit regarding accidents caused by blow-outs and early tire replacements. That's a lot of vehicles and a lot of customers!

exhaust_note

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Echo7847 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda is coming out with updated control arms for the rear to resolve the heavy negative camber issue. Estimated release was early 08 last time we spoke with them.

Give them time to make the replacement components 100% effective. These things take time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

any more info please?

what levels of trim does this affect?

Echo7847

Current vehicle in question is a newer civic hybrid. I've seen others just by looking @ them appears to have excessive camber. So far so good with my gf's 2dr.

Honda will make it officially known to everyone when a permenant fix has been implemented. So far, you're the second person I've heard complain about it in person.

Ek Zero

We have bulletin on this issue for a while here in Canada, as a dealer we have to bring the vheicle in the shop, take pictures, open a file with Honda techline to order update parts to fix the vehicle. It's a long diagnosis procedure and only pay 3.6. including 4WA .... Reason I knew is becasue my technician beside me just did one today.. and he is **** ..... well, this bulletin doesnt include SI and Hybrid

fg2si!kid

3.6 hr? how hard is it to diagnose camber where you schould be abel to change out the part and do an alignment check in half that time if you have all the right tools on you. whats so hard about it ?

tiresnfrustrated

You're right, it isn't hard to diagnose and can be done in about two minutes. Honda can't fix the problem and therefore the dealers can't fix the problem because they don't have the part or it hasn't been approved or the part and recall hasn't come through (been approved) by Honda's Legal Department. This does not just affect "Hybrids". I do not have a hybrid. I have an 06' 4D sedan. The dealer did not even offer to do an alignment because they knew that it wouldn't do any good. At this point, Honda and the dealers must figure that it is more cost efficient to just keep replacing tires, hope nobody gets hurt and sues them, rather than warning the public and making it known to their buyers. If they made it known they just might see a drop in sales don't ya think? Honda paid for three of my new tires and the dealer paid for one of them. Sounds like they both are responsible and know about the problem. I'm truely surprised that more people have not been complaining about this issue because it is a known problem to the automotive industry. Thanks for the replys.

Ek Zero

As I said, Honda already have solution for the probelm and you just have to go see the dealer. Is not as easy as you guys think, if Honda is willing to pay 3.6 for us to solve the problem, it will take more than 5 hours to do. You can ask any technician work at Honda in this forum and they will tell you the same thing.

This rear end problem doesnt become a recall becasue you are just the lucky one. We dont see these too often...

tiresnfrustrated

The problem canot be fixed at this time and the recall was slated for "mid november" of this year and it is obviously past "mid november". I have been talking directly to "American Honda" and my information is 100% accurate. The dealers know and American Honda knows. They paid for my new tires and did not do an alignment because one can't be done and they can't fix the problem. Because it is due to a supension issue the maker (Honda) has had to do crash testing and the Feds have to then approve the results. Then it has to go through "legal" at Honda to be approved for the recall. Parts not involving the supension "don't always" have to go through the Feds for recall approval. My case has been assigned to a "regional case manager" at American Honda and has been turned over to "mediation". The problem is a (very well) known problem. I am not disputing the fact that it takes time to replace lower control arms, but the part is not available to do it. My dealer has said that the part may be available in Canada because they don't have the same federal restrictions we do. All this information is straight from the horses mouth. I have the claim numbers and data to back up all this information and truely it took the folks at my dealership two minutes to diagnose the problem. You can see the negative camber just by looking at the back of my car. The rear tires tilt inward like the letter "A", thus causing uneven tire wear on the inside of the tires. Thanks for the response and the concern.

Mediademics

If the problem is somewhat rare. Can't they just swap out the defective part with a current new one and see if that holds? Atleast this way your not going through tires.

tiresnfrustrated

Thanks for the reply. The problem is not rare and is widespread. I am told that it will affect not only the 06s, but also 07s. They are continuing to sell the cars. The recall is going to be very very costly and many many people just don't know that they have the problem and have likely blamed their tires, the alignment place for not being able to align the tires right, and the consumer has been blamed for not rotating the tires properly and timely. Problem is, I rotated my tires four times (documented by the dealer service center) in 27,000 miles and had horrible wear, with the steel belts hanging out on two of my tires, both of which were initially on the rear of my car. Don't get me wrong, the defect (or breakdown) does not occur in one-hundred percent of the civics, but is a very serious potential problem and you know as well as I do when a recall happens it is a broad recall for certain models and often models that were made in a certain place. As I understand it the manufacture site doesn't matter because it is a system wide "lower control arm" that was used on all honda civicsbeginning in 06'.

ednksu

can anyone provide any documentation on this. I would like to see some stuff scanned in so we can start distributing it to others. I have had a bad problem with cupping/ uneven ware on my back tires (06 SI) and this is all new to me.

Cdnhondaowner

I have been experiencing odd behaviour from my 2006 4dr Civic this winter. This is winter #3 and the rear end of the car is doing odd things.
On a slippery road, the back seems like it has a mind of its own. It will suddenly slip to the left or right.
I thought alignment.
The dealer says there is nothing they can do. It is a T.B.A. issue from Honda but they will call us when the recall for the rear control arms is issued.
I'm wondering if any other Civic drivers are experiencing the same thing on slick roads.
There is nothing to indicate any problems at all on dry or wet roads. Throw in a little ice and away we go!
I wonder if Honda will be interested in providing another car to me for the winter?

ednksu

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ek Zero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We have bulletin on this issue for a while here in Canada, as a dealer we have to bring the vheicle in the shop, take pictures, open a file with Honda techline to order update parts to fix the vehicle. It's a long diagnosis procedure and only pay 3.6. including 4WA .... Reason I knew is becasue my technician beside me just did one today.. and he is **** ..... well, this bulletin doesnt include SI and Hybrid </TD></TR></TABLE>


can you post a copy of this bulletin....eh?

Ek Zero

Ok, I try to get it tomorrow.....

Cdnhondaowner

I have the bulletin but appear to be unable to attach things because I just joined.

Today we were sent home from the dealership after they did nothing. We were told that the parts are backordered and that an alignment will not fix the problem. A call to Honda Canada got a different response. They were surprised that we were sent away from the dealer without so much as an adjustment.

So back we go tomorrow in anticipation of a call to the dealer from Honda Canada.

It is certainly clear that there are some things we are not being told by the dealer.

Cdnhondaowner

Just off the phone with Honda Canada. Our car has 94 000km on it. They are going to authorize the change of the control arms.

Because there were no slippery roads to test it on, they couldn't duplicate the driving experience we are having so will not guarantee that our problem will go away.

They will hear nothing of replacing our winter tires because they are not the original tires on the car. We have been told to bring in the original tires along with the records of rotation and change to winter tires to determine if we are still below the 40 000km cut-off for tire wear.

The bulletin has a chart indicating what is normal and abnormal tire wear and according to it, any amount of wear after 40 000kms must be normal.

quinnrob

I posted a complaint very similar to this 4 months ago. I complained of a strange side-to-side movement over any road abnormalities and all I got was attacks on my driving abilities haha. I have a 2006 Honda Civic LX Coupe with Acura TSX 17" rims and the behavior was also blamed on them.

It's gotta be the rear alignment. I'll check the rear tread and see if there is abnormal wear.

Ek Zero

I couldnt figure it out how to post so ......

Here is the bulletin;

http://67.199.34.27/Bulletin(VIII-10-07).pdf

exhaust_note

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ek Zero &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I couldnt figure it out how to post so ......

Here is the bulletin;

http://67.199.34.27/Bulletin(VIII-10-07).pdf</TD></TR></TABLE>

nice... honda has the best bulletins. everything is so clear. good find!

Mr. DB2

My wifes civic only has 4,000 miles on it and the tires are screwed.I've been fighting with the dealership for months,no wonder I quit working there.

Frankly

Hi all. Excellent thread; I had to register.

'07 EX Sedan, Galaxy Gray, new on 7/31/07. Only 2700 miles so far.

Cdnhondaowner

We had the very same experience as quinnrob. On a slippery road, it was like the rear tires were working against each other. When one hit a slippery patch, the car would pull to the opposite side suddenly and then right itself once both tires had equal traction again. That is the way it seemed anyway.

Control arms have been replaced with the new ones and the problem appears to be gone. I still want to find some ice, but the performance seems to be back to normal.

TheGothOne

hmm... so is this something that could develop with time ? at least from the looks of the bulletin it seems that way... and would this apply to HFP suspension too ? it is afterall a Honda part. I'm just wondering but it's not an issue I noticed in my case... yet anyway !