mfisher1967

In a prior post I stated that 87 octane gasoline contained "trash" hydrocarbons that were not present in 89 and 93 octane gasoline. This is not true and was based on some bad information that I received from folks that I work with at an oil refinery here in Houston. I found out that my refinery sells 87 octane and 93 octane gasoline, some of which is blended together 50/50 to produce 89 octane. I am told that 89 octane gasoline is produced via blending either at the terminal where the tankers are loaded, or at the gas stations in their underground tanks. One other point of interest is that 87 and 93 octane gasoline that is produced where I work is typically 1/2 an octane point higher (87.5 and 93.5). It is cheaper to "give" away 1/2 an octane point than it is to blend octane down, possibly making it fall too low (off-test).

Our gasoline is sold at several retail outlets, including one that is "Top Tier". The proprietary additive package is added at the time each tanker is loaded as I understand it. As was said in the other post, gas is gas no matter what brand you buy. The only real difference is the additive package.

accordselux

Yup.

Top Tier is the only real difference, besides that, gas is gas.

And there really isn't much of a point for putting in anything over 87 in the base cars.

gus738

since you kinda work in a gas co. are all gas same only diffrense is paying more for gas brand price? (i.e usa vs chevron) ?

Bulli Kid

isn't all shell gasoline top tier now?

Bulli Kid

and also since most stations have 10 % ethonol in them that increase your octane a bit more aswell

Shaka01

I only use chevron in my car. It seems like all the other gas companys have 10% ethanol(sp). I get 31.5-32.0 mpg in b16 eg8. When I was using sheetz gas i was getting 28-29 mpg

ley

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and also since most stations have 10 % ethonol in them that increase your octane a bit more aswell </TD></TR></TABLE>

??? Sorry I thought they use 10% ethanol to save on costs, and since not every car is "flex-fuel" yet.

And also the only difference between different gas stations is the amount of detergents. Its all the same there too. A brand new car doesn't really need all those detergents. (Even though I have used Shell V-Power 100% of the way)

I:_Drive

+1 for Shell Vpower. Hands down the best gas (imo) that you can buy.

mfisher1967

All major oil refineries here in Houston discharge gasoline and other refined products into pipelines. Contrary to popular belief, H2O is not used to separate refined products as they move through the pipelines. Pipelines are usually operated by a third party, such as Colonial Pipeline, and are used to transport material from several different customers. Any refinery can contribute material (gasoline, diesel, etc) to a pipeline shipment as long as the product meets a certain specification, such as 93 octane gasoline. A shipment of 93 octane unbranded gasoline may have a shipment of 87 octane gasoline behind it. Behind the 93 and 87 octane gasoline, there may be a shipment of diesel or jet fuel, which in turn may have a shipment of home heating oil behind it. The rule of thumb is to transport shipments of refined products through the pipeline in such a way that products will remain on-test. Some mixing will occur at the "interface" between the different products, which is acceptable as long as certain practices are followed. For example, if some 93 octane gasoline mixes with some of the 87 octane gasoline there will be no detrimental consequences. A little mixing of 87 octane gasoline and diesel or jet fuel will not cause the diesel or jet fuel to go off-test. Same thing with diesel and jet fuel with home heating oil. Using gasoline as an example, refinery "X" may send 100,000 gallons of unbranded 93 octane gasoline through a pipeline with 200,000 gallons of unbranded 93 octane gasoline from refinery "Y". Terminal "X" at the destination may pull 100,000 gallons of this shipment into a tank, which is then loaded into tanker trucks for delivery at the point of sale (gas station). Similarly, terminal "Y" then takes the remaining 200,00 gallons from the pipeline. A gravity meter is used by pipeline control operators to determine the transition from 93 octane to 87 octane.

Long story short, just because you like to buy gasoline from a gas station operated by brand "X", does not guarantee that a refinery owned by brand "X" made the gasoline sold there. The only real difference from brand to brand is the additive package, which is added at the time each tanker truck is loaded at the terminal. I have been told that a lot of gasoline is treated with Techron, even when it is not sold at Chevron branded stations. Other companies buy Techron to add to their gasoline, but cannot advertise that their product contains the proprietary Chevron additive package. I don't know if this is true, but I have heard the same thing from more than one person in the refining industry. The more folks that I talk to, the more I am beginning to see just how much marketing plays a role in selling gasoline. My advice, stick with a reputable "Top Tier" gasoline brand and you will be fine.

HondaF1Fanatic

Shell is the only top tier gas I can get readily in Western Michigan so it is all I use.

Jon

Shaka01

Who is Top Tier?

drkangel650

No one has mentioned yet but BP ultimate is my personal favorite. The BP Ultimate is still the same as the Amoco fuel ( thought the other grades are not) My family has used Ultimate for years and we get top level performance and mileage from it

Gilgamesh

I think I remember reading somewhere that Chevron still has their own pipeline, for just their products (Car and Driver maybe)?

accordselux

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drkangel650 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No one has mentioned yet but BP ultimate is my personal favorite. The BP Ultimate is still the same as the Amoco fuel ( thought the other grades are not) My family has used Ultimate for years and we get top level performance and mileage from it</TD></TR></TABLE>

BP has a lot of worker safety violatins (seriously, deaths even here in the US that were easily preventable).

However, I get 5% cashback on gas for using BP...I feel evil...but i'm broke.

Kidnkorner

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mfisher1967 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only real difference from brand to brand is the additive package, which is added at the time each tanker truck is loaded at the terminal</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have been saying this since 2000.

Also the main reason the no name brand fuel retailers can offer lower prices is they have a generic additive that meets the goverments bare minimum standards, while brand name fuels exceed these same standards.

In Orlando Florida, fuel is transported to the racking system by pipeline. There are 2 lines going to Orlando coming from Tampa. One is 87, and the other is diesel. Additives are combined with the 87 to raise the fuel to their proper octane level. Every brands fuel is kept in the same holding tank with the exception of Amoco ultimate, theirs is brought in by truck or rail and held in a separate holding tank. It only changes when its being pumped into the tanker trucks.

In Phoenix Arizona fuel comes by pipeline and rail. The same applies about all brands fuel being in the same tanks and the additive process.

I have loaded every brands of fuel and you can hear the difference when you are loading premium brand fuels and he generic no name fuels. there are injectors and you can here them as the fuel is being pumped. As the premium fuel is being pumped the audible of the injector can be heard frequently. As the generic unbranded fuel is being pumped the injector audible is heard occasionally.

My vote for premium goes to Amoco Ultimate with a bottle of Chevron Techron added at every other fill up, and at every oil change interval.

My vote for 89 and under is Chevron and a bottle of techron added at every oil change interval.

Also never fuel your vehicle if you see a tanker truck on site dropping fuel. Sediment and debris is stirred up from the bottom of the tanks during delivery and despite on site filters, crap can still end up in your tank.

mfisher1967

I decided to try Shell V-Power this afternoon. I typically use Chevron 93 octane, but wanted to see if any difference could be heard/felt by using Shell. I was very surprised to feel an noticeable increase in power after filling up my tank with V-Power. My car seemed to accelerate quicker and maintain speed with less effort. This leads me to believe one of two things. First, perhaps my local Chevron franchise is not filling up their 93 octane underground tank with 93 octane gasoline. Second, perhaps since Shell operates their enormous Deer Park refinery nearby I was able to obtain gasoline that was actually made by Shell. Since I have purchased my last two tanks of Chevron gas at the same station, I am inclined to believe that there is some funny business going on there. Maybe they are filling up their 93 octane tank with 87 octane gasoline. Anyway, I felt that this was interesting enough to post about.

drkangel650

If you really think that's the case I'll look to find a federal or state listing of a report line. My mother works for Giant Oil who owns most all of the BP locations in Jax and Tampa, FL. It isn't very likely as both the station operator, owner (which aren't always the same person) the fuel delivery driver, and possibly the despensing company would all be held accountable.

So for the premium class which ranks higher? Ultimate or V-Power. I know Ultimate is kept seperate for the most part as stated above.

Kidnkorner

I'm not really sure what you mean.

Every brands fuel is kept in the same tank, grade for grade, except Amoco ultimate. It's been practiced for years. It becomes branded when loaded for delivery when the additives are injected during the loading process.

Could you imagine having 20+ different pipelines running under/over ground to keep branded fuel separate? Not very practical nor environmental friendly.

When you buy the unbranded fuel at the generic brand fuel stations you are getting a brand name fuel, just a generic brand additive that meets the governments minimum standards.

drkangel650

Thats where I was headed. Everyone seems to swear by the V-Power but its the same as everything else just mixed. The Ultimate seems better just for the fact it's less 'polluted'.

It just isn't adding up to why everyone prefers the v-power

mfisher1967

I can't fully explain why V-Power seems to have more pep, other than to think that my local Chevron got some bad gas or is selling a lower octane gasoline in place of 93 octane super. My car had three miles on the odometer when I picked it up. I filled it up at the same Chevron station both times since I drove the car off of the lot. Again, maybe I just lucked out and got a good batch of gas from the Shell station. Gasoline quality will vary from batch to batch. So far I am impressed with V-Power, as there is a noticeable increase in performance. Will this continue from tank to tank....I don't know.

mfisher1967

One other quick thing. I am being told that Shell is now adding Techron to their gasoline. Of course Shell can't advertise this, as the Techron name is proprietary. Several Chemical Engineers where I work have told me the same thing. There is no way for me to confirm this information though, so take it for what it's worth.

Kidnkorner

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drkangel650 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It just isn't adding up to why everyone prefers the v-power</TD></TR></TABLE>

Until some independent lab or consumer reporting agency ponies up the cash and pits all the brands together, or does real world dyno testing it's just marketing and placebo. Amoco ultimate fuel is the cleanest fuel, I don't know what they do to it but it's refined or filtered more. What I mean is if you put it up side by side in test tubes against everyone Else's premium fuel you will notice that its crystal clear unlike the yellow tinge you see with everyone else's. Thus the reason for a separate holding tank. As far as detergent goes I like techron.

In conclusion, as I said before, for premium fuel I choose Amoco with a bottle of techron added in at every other fueling interval and at every oil change interval.

HondaF1Fanatic

http://www.toptiergas.com/

Texas25RS

I have tried explaining this concept to numerous people that I have contact with in the car "arena." Few of them understand the concept of "gas is gas" and the differences are in the additive packages. I have been using QT gas ever since they came to the DFW area... they have been top tier rated since that started... and in ~8-9 years, I have NEVER had a bad tank or doubted I got whatever grade I pumped.

thanks for trying to spread the word on gasoline....

Kidnkorner

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaF1Fanatic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.toptiergas.com/</TD></TR></TABLE>

It really should be called top tier detergent. Because grade for grade, except amoco ultimate, gas is the same. Its the detergent that make the fuel unique.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Texas25RS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">QT gas ever since they came to the DFW area... they have been top tier rated since that started</TD></TR></TABLE>

QT purchases fuel from whoever has the lowest wholesale rates available. It could be murphy one time, valero another, or citgo. They are given top tier rating because the amount of detergent they put in their fuel. They do have their own detergent though.