mscp0012

Here we go:

My car was fine. I brought it to my mechanic to get the timing belt changed.
My mechanic is my brother. So i watched the whole thing. He finally got everything back toghether after changing the belt. He started the car and it sounded.... messed up. Kind of like it was struggling to keep going. He looked around and realized that he forgot to tighten a bolt. (I AM NOT A MECHANIC) He tightened it and restarted the car. This is where this list of problems started.

It was still struggling to keep on. Kind of like it was running out of gas or something. The green key light lit up and has not gone away ever since.
We tried to attach a OBDII to erase the error message from the ECU but the OBDII gives a message saying "can not connect".

Now every time i start the engin after sitting, the first time usually kills the engine. Then i start it again and it runs fine. Yet the green key light still blinks.

Yes i am using my real key and not a copy, i have a copy and tried it too it did start but didnt get rid of the green light.

Also when i drive, the temperature guage doesnt work, the rpms doesnt work, and the engine light is on and the green key light is blinking.

On top of this, my car being standered, i start in first gear and can not accellerate past 20km, then second cant go faster then 40km, then third cant pass 60km, then fourth cant pass 70km and fifth cant pass 110km.

I have checked to find any wires that havent been placed back. I have used 4 OBDII units and they all cant connect, i have checked all fuses in the car and under the hood. i have also left the battery off for an hour which reset everything but the error.

My brother said to go to honda and get the key re-registered or something and then i would be able to get rid of the green light and then erase the error in the ecu.

is this correct? is there anything I can do without going to honda and not drive a .. messed up car.

mscp0012

Also I am not sure if this relates to this problem but I had trouble with my passenger door look when I pressed the lock button on the key chain. It would not lock, so we ordered a part for the doors and changed those but both doors locks and windows work fine.

It Wasn't Me

The car is in Limp Mode.

He may have forgotten to connect a sensor (CKP or CMP maybe?) or perhaps even fried your ECU. I'll dig around a bit.

theineffable

so the car starts even though the immobilizer light blinks green? i had this happen a couple times when my battery was dying. what happened was that the battery was strong enough to start the engine but very slowly. the battery voltage would sag too low for a long enough period that the gauge cluster would shut off then turn back on after the engine starts. somehow the green immobilizer light will stay blinking even though the immobilizer worked fine.


anyway, it does sound like an ecu problem since you can't get the obd2 port to communicate.

mscp0012

thanks for the reply theineffable

i am not a mechanic. however have watched my father and brother both fix cars for years, but i do not know technical terms or even what some things are but know what they look like.

**hope this makes sence**

if my batery is dying how do i know/find out?

how can i test to see if my ecu is actually the problem?

if my key immobilizer isnt getting the code from my key would i still be able to connect my obdII?

if i replaced my car doors locks does this effect anything with the immobilisor?

power seems fine to me but the car does have a hard time starting and running healthy.

mscp0012

thanks for the reply IT WASNT ME.

if He may have forgotten to connect a sensor (CKP or CMP maybe?) or perhaps even fried my ecu....

where can i find the sensors to see if they are connected?

how would i know/test if my ecu is fried?



**keeping in mind i am not technically savy with cars but know some thigns in there from watching my father and brother for eyars**

theineffable

to find out how good/bad the battery is, you need to get it load tested. some places do this for free but they'll try to sell you a battery if your existing one is weak.

the fact that the obd2 communications does not work is a sign that the ecu is malfunctioning. i suggest you have all the vehicle grounds inspected in case someone removed one then forgot to put it back.

replacing door lock actuators does not affect the immobilizer

vtekthis

TTT for having the same issue with a friends car. Anyone have a good link for the ecu and multiplex wiring diagrams? junction plugs/ground ect?

have replaced the ECU-no fix
have replaced the multiplex control unit (under dash fuse box)- no fix
had honda reprogram keys with the HDS unit-no fix
have tried numerous OBD2 scanner and all have no link to the ECU

Our car has the exact same symptoms mentioned above, although this happened "all of a sudden" while accelerating. No recent work done in the timing belt area neither.

anyone else have this problem aswell? maby we can get a good fix out of all this

pd0019

what was the lose bolt attached to?

honda.lioness

Ditto. If this was the timing belt tensioner bolt, then first I would be checking whether the timing belt lost tension, slipped, and so correct timing was lost. Depending on how far off the timing is, the car will still run, but not as well.

vtekthis

but this still doesent explain the coolent temp gage inop, the tach inop, the obd port un-connectable, like i stated above we are having the same problem without doing a timing belt change

honda.lioness

If the bolt that was tightened was the TB tensioner bolt, then the coincidence of the OP's problems with the TB change is too much to ignore, in my opinion. Let the OP answer whether it was the tensioner bolt. For all we know, your TB also was not tensioned correctly.

It Wasn't Me

If the timing belt slips even one tooth, the car will not run. IIRC

It Wasn't Me

Sent you a PM. Check your messages.

honda.lioness

Perhaps. I think the correct timing is 8 +/- 2 degrees for the 01-05 Civics. On 90s Hondas, one tooth off is around 17 degrees or so of the crank timing being off. For the 01-05 Civics, it may depend on which direction, BTDC or ATDC, the timing is off.

vtekthis

will check the timing on since we dont have a direction to run with yet, to the OP, did you guys have any luck yet?

honda.lioness

Also I am wondering if the OP reprogrammed the ECM/PCM idle characteristics, as required by the manual after a TB change. From a free, legal online source for the 1.7L civic:

---
Be sure all electrical items are OFF.

Start the engine. Hold the idle speed at 3000 RPM-s in park or neutral until the radiator fan comes on or the temperature reached 194 degrees.

Let the engine idle for about five minutes with the throttle fully closed.

If the radiator fan comes on during the five minutes, do not count this toward the five minute programming time.
---

I am changing the timing belt on my 03 Civic sometime in the next six months, so I am reading a lot on this.

Paso516

Heres a thought....doesn't the water pump drive the timing belt?? So it could it be that the water pump is going bad so the timing belt is off....and with the timing belt off that'll explain the low speeds.

Altho it could be the ECU as well

lazlong

Have you tested your alternator?

mscp0012

wow, lots to talk about.

alright. I *sigh* went back to my brothers shop and we spent a good amount of time (2-3 hours) just TRYING to find a problem.

So, we removed the timing belt again even though it WAS correct. There was a CRANK SENSOR (which was that bolt he forgot to tighten that I said earlier in this post) and he told me that, THAT was what he forgot to tighten so we ordered a new one. Put it on, did not change a thing. We looked at the cord in the car where the ODBII would connect and clicked it out and looked at the wiring to see if the wiring was for some reason not working, found nothing.

We put it all back together, and I litterally abandond it for now. I am getting rides from my girlfriend for now, but I am dieing without my car.

NOW! I was considering getting a new ECU, but after reading this there are numerous questions that I have.

As I said we took off the timing belt again, retimed it, and put back the alternator. So the alternator being loose is not the problem.

I have NOT IDEA what resetting the ECU and Idle Relearn really consist of nor have i heard of this. Can SOMEONE please explain this?

I have not heard about this OP reprogrammed the ECM/PCM idle characteristics thing. I am going *litterally right now* to read my manual and see this, but does anyone know anything about this?

Is there any way I can check if the ECU is working or not without having another ECU to try.

mscp0012

i read this somewhere:

The vehicle may also have a rough idle or reduced power condition, and/or may stall at an idle. This may be caused by sticking exhaust valves due to excessive carbon build-up. ACTION Check for faulty fuel injectors and ignition wires.

and this:

The RACV is notorious for carbon buildup causing it to stick. It is just a valve that rotates to allow air into the intake manifold to control idle speed. It will tend to stick more when the ECU gives it small adjustment commands (regular driving). When adjustment commands are larger the RACV moves with enough force to free its valve (Wide open throttle driving). This is still the first place I would look for diagnosis.

what do you guys think?

mscp0012

okay.

I have a DMM, my father is a mechanic too and leaves tools at home.

To check the ECU I would....... what? Check a fuse or something?

I have no idea. All i know is that the ECU is behind the glove box. I have never seen it nor would I know what to look for unless you explain it in simple terms (ex. take the blue wire on the right side of the grey box thing and ..... you get it)

As for the removal of the fuse, i do know that. I have checked all the fuses and they are fine. I have NUMEROUSLY removed the negative from the battery for longer then 10 min. Once I think 2 hours.

Also...

I do not know how many RPMS i would be doing, the guage doesnt work nor does the temp guage. However, I have also tried to hold the gas down in nutrual and at a certain speed (i dont know what) it does not accellerate anymore and cuts out sort of. Its like i press the gas and it speeds up then cuts and stays at a certain rpm which makes it hard to drive. Just so were clear, if i am driving and i am infirst gear, i can reach maybe 20km and it doesnt accellerate anymore and rather behaves very jerky. like it wants to go but cant. this is hard to describel.

lazlong

OK, let me rephrase. Have you checked the alternator voltage? If your alternator voltage is low it will drain the battery, the car won't run right at all, and generally mess up your electronics.

honda.lioness

Per the suggestions by "It Wasn't Me," googling on {"limp mode" sensor Civic} yields a lot of hits and chatter about how messing up sensors in the vicinity of the timing belt will land a person's Civic in limp mode pronto. I would start with the CKP sensor. This is from my manual:
PGM-FI System
DTC Troubleshooting (cont'd) 11-88

Reset the ECM/PCM (see page 11-4).
Start the engine.
Is DTC P0335 and/or P0336 indicated?
DTC P0335: - CKP Sensor No Signal
DTC P0336: - CKP Sensor Intermittent Interruption

YES
- Go to step 3.

NO
- Intermittent failure, system is OK at this time. Check for poor connections or loose wires at the CKP sensor and at the ECM/PCM.


Turn the ignition switch OFF.
Disconnect the CKP sensor 3P connector.
Turn the ignition switch ON (II).
Measure voltage between the CKP sensor 3P connector terminal No. 3 and body ground.

CKP SENSOR 3P CONNECTOR

Wire side of female terminals

Is there battery voltage?

YES
- Go to step 7.

NO
- Repair open in the wire between the PGM-FI main relay 1 and the CKP sensor.


Measure voltage between the CKP sensor 3P connector terminal No. 1 and body ground.


CKP SENSOR 3P CONNECTOR

Wire side of female terminals

Is there about 5 V?

YES
- Go to step 8.

NO
- Go to step 10.

Measure voltage between the CKP sensor 3P connector terminals No. 2 and No. 3.

CKP SENSOR 3P CONNECTOR

Wire side of female terminals

Is there battery voltage?

YES
- Go to step 9.

NO
- Repair open in the wire between the CKP sensor and G101.


Substitute a known-good CKP sensor and recheck.
Is DTC P0335 and/or P0336 indicated?

YES
- Substitute a known-good ECM/PCM and recheck (see page 11-6). If symptom/indication goes away, replace the original ECM/PCM.

NO
- Replace the original CKP sensor.

lazlong

To mscp0012: Just to make sure, the battery cable was disconnected during the timing belt change, right? If it wasn't disconnected then something is blown. It could be anything- fuses, relays, sensors, immobilizer, ECU or, multiplex control unit (built into under-dash fuse box).

If it was disconnected: I just spent 2 hours looking thru the service manual and it all points to a bad power or ground. I then called my mechanic friend and he said that this is a very common problem and you probably have a loose connection. With the battery off, check every connector you came anywhere near when doing the timing belt. Then reset the ECU.

Good Luck.

PS: Not a bad idea to get a service manual. They can be your best friend. http://www.helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?