CEL ~ Help me out!
01-16-2009, 11:48 PM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CEL ~ Help me out!
Okay so i bought this car (2002 CIVIC - AKA EM2)and the CEL was on but i got it looked at my a mechanic so i knew what the codes where after he gave them to me but its was no biggy cos i was going to get it fixed but im having a little trouble lol. Okay so the original codes i got were as follows....
P1457 Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected (Control Canister System)
P1300 Random Misfire
P1301 Cylinder 1 Misfire - Compare possible causes/symptoms for this Honda check engine light code to the Generic OBD II code P0301
P1302 Cylinder 2 Misfire - Compare possible causes/symptoms for this Honda check engine light code to the Generic OBD II code P0302
P1303 Cylinder 3 Misfire - Compare possible causes/symptoms for this Honda check engine light code to the Generic OBD II code P0303
P1138 Lack Of HO2S-12 Switch Indicates Rich
P1108 BARO to MAP signal circuit comparison too high
P1102 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor
I did some research and this is what i came up with
PROBLEM #7: CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON, P0300 RANDOM MISFIRE CODE
A random misfire means your engine is misfiring, but that the problem is not isolated to one or two cylinders. It is jumping around in a random way from one cylinder to another. A random misfire code usually means the air/fuel mixture is running lean. But the cause might be anything from a hard-to-find vacuum leak to dirty fuel injectors, low fuel pressure, a weak ignition coil, bad plug wires, or compression problems. Even a dirty MAF sensor can cause a lean code and/or misfire to occur. The engine may be stalling because it isn’t getting enough throttle opening. The cause is often a problem in the idle air control system. The first thing to check is the intake vacuum with a vacuum gauge. On most vehicles a normal reading is 17 to 21 inches Hg. If the needle is lower, is jumping up and down or steadily dropping, you have a vacuum problem. Look for possible vacuum leaks by checking vacuum hose connections, the throttle body and manifold, and PVC valve and plumbing. An EGR valve that is leaking can also act like a vacuum leak and cause a random misfire. The next thing you should check is the fuel pressure with a gauge. If it is not within specifications (refer to a service manual for specifics because fuel pressure is critical for proper engine performance), the problem may be a weak fuel pump, low voltage to the pump (check the relay and wiring), or obstructions in the fuel line (like a plugged filter). A bad fuel pressure relay can also leak pressure and prevent an otherwise good fuel pump from delivering full pressure to the injectors. Dirty injectors can also restrict fuel delivery and cause a lean fuel condition. Many regular grades of gasoline do not contain adequate levels of detergent to keep the injectors clean. Frequent short trip driving accelerates the buildup of injector deposits. Cleaning the injectors with a good quality fuel tank additive (or having them professionally cleaned) can solve this problem. Look at short term fuel trim (STFT) and long term fuel trim (LTFT) with your scantool or scanner software. If the numbers are high, it tells you the engine is running lean.
PROBLEM #8: CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON, P030x SPECIFIC-CYLINDER MISFIRE CODE One of the impressive features of OBD II systems is the ability to self-diagnose a misfire and pinpoint which cylinder has the problem.+ For example, P0302 indicates a misfire on cylinder #2. A cylinder specific misfire indicates that either compression, appropriate fuel mixture, or spark is missing. Start with a visual inspection, looking for a vacuum leak near the cylinder and any sign of wear on the spark plug wire. Check the compression on the target cylinder to ensure that the engine is mechanically sound. Use a stethoscope to listen to the suspect cylinder’s fuel injector. Listen for distinctive clicks and compare to another cylinder.
Q. I have a 1999 Honda Accord 2.3 liter with a manual transmission. The Check Engine Light is on and the code say's it's running lean. Can you give some ideas on the best way to trouble shoot this problem?
A. Since you didn't see fit to tell me what the exact code was, I can only offer general advice that would pertain to any vehicle.
You could have a leak in the air induction system, a clogged fuel injector, clogged fuel filter, bad Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor, low fuel pressure, a leak in the exhaust system, a vacuum leak, a bad O2 sensor or a cracked PCV hose.
A condition caused by an air/fuel mixture that is too lean to sustain combustion. Lean misfire causes one or more cylinders to pass unburned fuel into the exhaust system causing a big increase in hydrocarbon (HC) emissions. Symptoms include a rough idle and hesitation or stumble on acceleration. Lean misfire is often caused by vacuum leaks or an EGR valve that's stuck open.
TESTING COIL PACK
Holding the plug wire with insulated pliers, find a spot on the engine that is a good and easily accessible grounding point. Pretty much any exposed metal, including the engine itself, will do.
Holding the spark plug wire with your pliers, touch the threaded portion of the spark plug to the grounding point. Have somebody crank the engine with the key, and look for a bright blue spark to jump across the spark plug gap. If you see a nice, bright spark (clearly visible in daylight) your coil is doing its job.
Q. Sir, My dilemma is that my check engine light came on and I took my car to a reputable Honda shop and they diagnosed the code as P0301 and P0303 which is a cylinder misfire on the #1 and #3 cylinders. They informed me that this was due to bad spark plugs and since I was due for a 90,000 mile maintenance anyway they would replace the plugs as part of that maintenance and this would correct the problem.
Well, they replaced the oil filter, air filter, spark plugs, brake fluid, balance belt, timing belt, water pump, alternator belt, p/s belt, cam seal, balance seal, seal retainer, coolant, and d/p gasket. it was quite a bill but I have been told by friends and relatives not to take chances with the timing belt so I had the Honda shop do it all since they had the car for the day anyway. well that was well and good until this morning, the first day back with the car, the check engine light came on again.
My question is what can cause a cylinder misfire and what else should I be aware of from this diagnosis? Thank you very much for your help.
1996 Honda Accord LX 4door
4 cylinder
Manual transmission (5 speed)
89,000 miles
Sincerely,
Kevin
A. The usual cause of a mis-fire code is a bad fuel injector, a problem in one of the injector circuits or a problem with the ignition system. Since the plugs were replaced, I would suggest a new distributor cap. rotor and ignition wires. That will, most likely, clear up the misfire.
Okay so NOW, i cleared the codes and put new plugs in. gapped at 30. or so. and CEL comes back on. i got the OBD hooked back up and NOW. i have Less codes BUT, 1,2,3,and 4 are misfires. and i have an o2 sensor code bay 2 or something. i have 2 or 3 o2 sensors? i dont have a clue. asking the previous owner but any info you guys could gather would be great.
and sorry for all that information. its just what i gathered, read, and saved
P1457 Evaporative Emission Control System Leak Detected (Control Canister System)
P1300 Random Misfire
P1301 Cylinder 1 Misfire - Compare possible causes/symptoms for this Honda check engine light code to the Generic OBD II code P0301
P1302 Cylinder 2 Misfire - Compare possible causes/symptoms for this Honda check engine light code to the Generic OBD II code P0302
P1303 Cylinder 3 Misfire - Compare possible causes/symptoms for this Honda check engine light code to the Generic OBD II code P0303
P1138 Lack Of HO2S-12 Switch Indicates Rich
P1108 BARO to MAP signal circuit comparison too high
P1102 Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor
I did some research and this is what i came up with
PROBLEM #7: CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON, P0300 RANDOM MISFIRE CODE
A random misfire means your engine is misfiring, but that the problem is not isolated to one or two cylinders. It is jumping around in a random way from one cylinder to another. A random misfire code usually means the air/fuel mixture is running lean. But the cause might be anything from a hard-to-find vacuum leak to dirty fuel injectors, low fuel pressure, a weak ignition coil, bad plug wires, or compression problems. Even a dirty MAF sensor can cause a lean code and/or misfire to occur. The engine may be stalling because it isn’t getting enough throttle opening. The cause is often a problem in the idle air control system. The first thing to check is the intake vacuum with a vacuum gauge. On most vehicles a normal reading is 17 to 21 inches Hg. If the needle is lower, is jumping up and down or steadily dropping, you have a vacuum problem. Look for possible vacuum leaks by checking vacuum hose connections, the throttle body and manifold, and PVC valve and plumbing. An EGR valve that is leaking can also act like a vacuum leak and cause a random misfire. The next thing you should check is the fuel pressure with a gauge. If it is not within specifications (refer to a service manual for specifics because fuel pressure is critical for proper engine performance), the problem may be a weak fuel pump, low voltage to the pump (check the relay and wiring), or obstructions in the fuel line (like a plugged filter). A bad fuel pressure relay can also leak pressure and prevent an otherwise good fuel pump from delivering full pressure to the injectors. Dirty injectors can also restrict fuel delivery and cause a lean fuel condition. Many regular grades of gasoline do not contain adequate levels of detergent to keep the injectors clean. Frequent short trip driving accelerates the buildup of injector deposits. Cleaning the injectors with a good quality fuel tank additive (or having them professionally cleaned) can solve this problem. Look at short term fuel trim (STFT) and long term fuel trim (LTFT) with your scantool or scanner software. If the numbers are high, it tells you the engine is running lean.
PROBLEM #8: CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON, P030x SPECIFIC-CYLINDER MISFIRE CODE One of the impressive features of OBD II systems is the ability to self-diagnose a misfire and pinpoint which cylinder has the problem.+ For example, P0302 indicates a misfire on cylinder #2. A cylinder specific misfire indicates that either compression, appropriate fuel mixture, or spark is missing. Start with a visual inspection, looking for a vacuum leak near the cylinder and any sign of wear on the spark plug wire. Check the compression on the target cylinder to ensure that the engine is mechanically sound. Use a stethoscope to listen to the suspect cylinder’s fuel injector. Listen for distinctive clicks and compare to another cylinder.
Q. I have a 1999 Honda Accord 2.3 liter with a manual transmission. The Check Engine Light is on and the code say's it's running lean. Can you give some ideas on the best way to trouble shoot this problem?
A. Since you didn't see fit to tell me what the exact code was, I can only offer general advice that would pertain to any vehicle.
You could have a leak in the air induction system, a clogged fuel injector, clogged fuel filter, bad Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor, low fuel pressure, a leak in the exhaust system, a vacuum leak, a bad O2 sensor or a cracked PCV hose.
A condition caused by an air/fuel mixture that is too lean to sustain combustion. Lean misfire causes one or more cylinders to pass unburned fuel into the exhaust system causing a big increase in hydrocarbon (HC) emissions. Symptoms include a rough idle and hesitation or stumble on acceleration. Lean misfire is often caused by vacuum leaks or an EGR valve that's stuck open.
TESTING COIL PACK
Holding the plug wire with insulated pliers, find a spot on the engine that is a good and easily accessible grounding point. Pretty much any exposed metal, including the engine itself, will do.
Holding the spark plug wire with your pliers, touch the threaded portion of the spark plug to the grounding point. Have somebody crank the engine with the key, and look for a bright blue spark to jump across the spark plug gap. If you see a nice, bright spark (clearly visible in daylight) your coil is doing its job.
Q. Sir, My dilemma is that my check engine light came on and I took my car to a reputable Honda shop and they diagnosed the code as P0301 and P0303 which is a cylinder misfire on the #1 and #3 cylinders. They informed me that this was due to bad spark plugs and since I was due for a 90,000 mile maintenance anyway they would replace the plugs as part of that maintenance and this would correct the problem.
Well, they replaced the oil filter, air filter, spark plugs, brake fluid, balance belt, timing belt, water pump, alternator belt, p/s belt, cam seal, balance seal, seal retainer, coolant, and d/p gasket. it was quite a bill but I have been told by friends and relatives not to take chances with the timing belt so I had the Honda shop do it all since they had the car for the day anyway. well that was well and good until this morning, the first day back with the car, the check engine light came on again.
My question is what can cause a cylinder misfire and what else should I be aware of from this diagnosis? Thank you very much for your help.
1996 Honda Accord LX 4door
4 cylinder
Manual transmission (5 speed)
89,000 miles
Sincerely,
Kevin
A. The usual cause of a mis-fire code is a bad fuel injector, a problem in one of the injector circuits or a problem with the ignition system. Since the plugs were replaced, I would suggest a new distributor cap. rotor and ignition wires. That will, most likely, clear up the misfire.
Okay so NOW, i cleared the codes and put new plugs in. gapped at 30. or so. and CEL comes back on. i got the OBD hooked back up and NOW. i have Less codes BUT, 1,2,3,and 4 are misfires. and i have an o2 sensor code bay 2 or something. i have 2 or 3 o2 sensors? i dont have a clue. asking the previous owner but any info you guys could gather would be great.
and sorry for all that information. its just what i gathered, read, and saved
01-17-2009, 10:20 AM
#2
Re: CEL ~ Help me out!
you have 2 o2 sensors, unless you have an HX, those have 3. Any o2 codes you get should be only for BANK 1, and it will say something like "BANK 1, SENSOR 1" indicating a malfunction with the primary (pre-cat) o2 sensor, or SENSOR 2 for post-cat. You may have fewer codes after you cleared them, but im sure the others will come back once you drive the car a little more. the EVAP self-tests are very specific about their driving cycles for them to bring codes back up after clearing them. IE, the car will expect to be on for a certain amount of time, be driven at a certain speed under a specific load, etc. What does raise an eyebrow is the MAP sensor code. the ECU has a built in barometer to calculate altitude, combined with the MAP sensor, the car can calculate air density and adjust the fuel map accordingly. When the two sensors dont agree, it throws a red flag. If im not mistaken, the MAP sensor and all the other sensors share common grounds. If there is a fault, you could be getting those errors. In an unlikely scenario, your o2 sensor and MAP could be bad. In either case, once you straighten out the MAP issue and o2 sensor issue, you'll probably see the misfires go away. When the EVAP code comes back on, that will need to be diagnosed by itself. it could be a loose gas cap, or a stuck open solenoid. What do you know about the cars history? any accidents?
01-17-2009, 03:41 PM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: CEL ~ Help me out!
you have 2 o2 sensors, unless you have an HX, those have 3. Any o2 codes you get should be only for BANK 1, and it will say something like "BANK 1, SENSOR 1" indicating a malfunction with the primary (pre-cat) o2 sensor, or SENSOR 2 for post-cat. You may have fewer codes after you cleared them, but im sure the others will come back once you drive the car a little more. the EVAP self-tests are very specific about their driving cycles for them to bring codes back up after clearing them. IE, the car will expect to be on for a certain amount of time, be driven at a certain speed under a specific load, etc. What does raise an eyebrow is the MAP sensor code. the ECU has a built in barometer to calculate altitude, combined with the MAP sensor, the car can calculate air density and adjust the fuel map accordingly. When the two sensors dont agree, it throws a red flag. If im not mistaken, the MAP sensor and all the other sensors share common grounds. If there is a fault, you could be getting those errors. In an unlikely scenario, your o2 sensor and MAP could be bad. In either case, once you straighten out the MAP issue and o2 sensor issue, you'll probably see the misfires go away. When the EVAP code comes back on, that will need to be diagnosed by itself. it could be a loose gas cap, or a stuck open solenoid. What do you know about the cars history? any accidents?
i dont believe it got into any accidents BUT he did tell me about the forums he was on and i found a link to one of the threads he posted. obivously its more useful considering he talks about almost every thing he had done
http://www.civicforums.com/forums/79...-page-5-a.html
01-19-2009, 06:45 AM
#5
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
