Patman

Is it worth it to pickup one with 150k+ right now? I feel like I might be able to score one for around 4k. It will have to be 5 speed but I'm just wondering at what point should I really be concerned about mileage or would I be better off getting a 2000 or older with less than 150k? And is "highway mileage" really that less strain on a car if so to what extent less would you guys say.

Long time HT member, thx guys.

honda.lioness

I would be as concerned about

-- how many owners the car has had
-- whether the title is clean
-- is the timing belt due and can you change it yourself?
-- are there maintenance records?

Yes highway miles are easier on a car than non-highway miles. Highway miles = fewer accelerations/decelerations = less wear and tear on the engine

Try www.kbb.com 's used car appraiser to get an idea of what price is fair.

It is a case of five-will-get-you-ten as to whether say a 2003 Civic with 155k miles is a better deal than a 99 Civic with 100k miles.

ken9

Depend on what the car's use for, daily or project. What's your plan? $4000 that vehicle's expensive. I would trust that car without inspection. High mileage doesn't really mean it bad. It just depend on the person who drove it. The price for that car, i wouldn't buy it.

Patman

I want a fuel efficient car for daily use. No modifications one soever and routine maintenance are my plans for the car.

Are there any engineering changes or updates in the later body style worth paying for? Can I expect similar gas mileage out of both models assuming 5 speed?

imzjustplayin

Would you guys buy this car for the price it is listed at?
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1523954926.html

honda.lioness

Compare models at www.fueleconomy.gov , noting especially individuals' reports. In general, 2001+ Civics have 1.7L engines but design improvements that make them almost as efficient as the older 1.6L and 1.5L Civic engines.

2001+ should all be distributorless, meaning each cylinder has its own ignition coil yada. I am not sure yet if this is a significant advantage for a DIYer.

honda.lioness

It has a salvage title, meaning for one kbb.com does not offer estimates for what the market currently pays for such a car. Salvage also means the car will be either only partly insurable or not insurable at all for property damage to it.

How many owners? Are there maintenance records? Have you test driven the car or had a mechanic look at it? If two or less owners and there are maintenance records, and it seems to check out mechanically, and you do not mind the salvage title, or risking how long it will be before there are smog test passing problems, then using the "fair condition" price at kbb.com for the San Francisco area, the price seems okay.

imzjustplayin

Well if you want to get specific, the reason why the 1.7L and 1.6L are all about the same efficiency is because for each increase in displacement, there was an increase in compression ratio. I have to wonder though if one could get better fuel economy with the head of a 1.5L on a 1.7L and keep the 1.7L compression ratio. Reason for this would be because of the less strict emissions standards which could give better power. While there is a decrease in fuel economy from the '92 civic to the '01 civic, it is slight and is probably attributed to the more strict emissions and the heavier weight of the newer models.

Models do vary and the EX civic from '01-'05 actually has better mileage than the EX civic from '92-'00. Aside from that, the transmissions are supposed to be the same except on the HXs which got taller (lower rpms) on the '01-'05 civics compared to the '96-'00 civics and was probably compensating for the more strict emissions of the '01 civics. HXs tend to have lean burn and with more strict emissions, that means a less powerful lean burn mode which results in less of a FE boost. Most of what I said in this post pertains to the DX and LX civics.

Ask me how I know this.

fventura03

iTrader: (1)

i would, just gotta make sure about the over all condition of the car. engine doesnt matter, those are easy to swap in with a lower mileage one... cheap too!

honda.lioness

By "efficiency" earlier, I meant miles per gallon. A theoretical efficiency can be computed using the compression ratio, but this theoretical efficiency bears little relation to mpg. So for example consider the 1993 Civic CX hatchback vs. the DX hatchback. They have the same 1.5L block but differ as follows:
8 valve head vs. 16 valve head
HP = 70 vs. 92
CR = 9.2 vs. 9.3
MPG = 33/41 city/highway vs. 29/36
curb weight = 2094 vs. 2178

The higher compression ratio in this instance does not translate to lower MPG.

Comparing manual tranny LX sedans from 92 and 2001 --

1.5L vs. 1.7L
102 HP vs. 115 HP
CR = 9.2 vs. 9.5
MPG = 30/36 vs. 28/35
curb weight = 2319 vs. 2421

The higher CR of the 2001 helps but much of the reason the 2001 does not get higher MPG is the higher hp (which very generally speaking translates to higher displacement). One can graph displacement vs. MPG for all cars for any given year and the trend is clear as a general engineering rule: Higher displacement = lower MPG.

Just saying I think you overemphasize compression ratio.

Patman

Maybe the better question to ask is should I be looking 96-00 or 01+,

or just the best "deal" in my price range?

honda.lioness

For a fuel efficient, reliable daily car, I would aim for the following:

-- 92-95 Civic CX, DX or LX (best fuel economy from 92-2005). If a 92-95 non-EX does not show up, go for a non-EX from 96-2000, then a non-EX from 01-05.

-- Miles under 125k. I found I just did not like rolling the dice on the higher mileage cars, especially with multiple owners. How hard the car was driven, whether maintenance was regularly performed, etc. was hard to ascertain with more miles and/or more owners.

-- No salvage title. Use www.autocheck.com to do a check of the title. Autocheck.com is not perfect but I think it is far better than not attempting a title check.

-- Make sure the engine was not swapped. Engine codes are published at http://www.superhonda.com/tech/honda_engine_codes.html

-- Price consistent with KBB.com

-- No more than two previous owners.

-- Try the checks listed at http://sites.google.com/site/hondalioness/buyingused

One thing I found with Craig's List cars is that sellers tend to be selling either Civics with tampered odometers, multiple owners, or salvage titles. Sellers often do not admit to these things. OTOH, I came across many good deals (as in they passed muster when I went to see them) on Craig's List in the last two years when I was shopping for used Civics in 2008 and 2009.

autotrader.com is a pretty good resource, though they recently started charging for their simplest ad. Google for {free car ads} for other places people advertise.

eghatch4sale

If your looking for a 7th gen pm me I have a 04 "the better looking ones of the 7th gen" for around your price range and it is a 5spd !!!!!