tsb

I had originally posted asking about a rusted oil pan on my '04 Civic.
This car has 70,000 miles on it, and it is extremely well maintained and I've brought it to the dealer on time for the past 5 years for all scheduled maintenance.
The dealer told me I had a rusted oil pan and a small leak in the radiator hose and quoted me $800 (including scheduled maintenance at $200). I thought they were trying to take advantage of me with the oil pan because I'm a woman who doesn't know better.

I took it to an independent but well recommended shop. They just called.
Oil pan extremely rusted in one spot, recommend replacing: $360
Radiator hose is not leaking, the radiator is leaking and needs to be replaced: $565
On top of that, they noticed the axle shaft seal at transmission is leaking: $192

A grand total of $1100+ right before Christmas on a car I have always taken care of and this year put less than 6,000 miles on. Do these prices seem reasonable?

My main concern now is the radiator since that's the biggest expense. How could the service dept at the dealer have missed that it was the actual radiator and not a leaking hose? Is this a common mistake?

What causes a radiator to leak, and is this something the dealer's service department probably should have picked up on and caught before it got to this point?

At this point I'm pretty certain I'll never buy another Honda. I've never had to have this much work done to a car, and this one is only 5 years old.

1badascivic

independent shops always try to rip u and/or try to me a dealer look bad when u take your car to a dealer they only work on the make of your car so they no all the ins and out,I really thing u should take your car back to there cuz if they say your hose is leaking it is (your a girl independent shop will F word u)


I work for a dodge dealer i seen 300c needing trans at 30k i seen 2.7l motors blown up with less then 10k a honda is a car that is very cheap to have u say 1.000 is alot of a 5 year old car but.wear and tear dont think u are going to drive a car for 5 year and no have 1 problem i would rethink about what u said go and buy a ford.dodge gm yes they are made in the usa but they are over 78% more problems them honda,i love my honda 38mph 1989 with 480k do that is a ford stock motor and trans

theineffable

i think the dealer and the independant shop are both trying to hose you...find another place...

if you want to fix the oil pan for cheap, you can probably get a used one from a wrecker for around $50 and around $25 for a gasket. labour should be 1hr or less.

radiator will be more expensive...i think a used oem replacement one will cost around $100-$150for the part. not sure how long it will take to install.

oem replacement axle is around $70 for the part.

tsb

Okay, new problem - because I'm an idiot.
I thought the dealer told me I had a rusted oil pan and a radiator hose leak. There was another guy talking to another customer next to me and apparently I somehow confused what he was saying to his customer with what the guy was saying to me.

I told the independent shop that the dealer had told me oil pan and radiator. The independent shop then told me I had a radiator leak - now I realize what a complete idiot I am. I think I caused myself a way bigger problem.

So I called the dealer back to find out how they could have such a differing opinion. The service manager looked me up in the computer and they said they saw absolutely no problem with the radiator. All they had noted was the oil pan and the axle shaft seal. They had flushed out the radiator and done the coolant as part of my service.

Now the guy at the dealer is saying the shop probably thinks I have a radiator leak because they saw leftover fluid from having just had the radiator flushed out. Is this a possibility? (This would be the best possible scenario, but it almost sounds too good to be true.)

Another possibility (and I hope to God not it's only a remote possibility) is that this independent shop is not as reputable as believed and if they thought I already thought I had a radiator problem, what if they fiddled with it and "created" a leak? Can another mechanic tell if this happened?

I think I'll sell my damn car and buy myself a nice mountain bike instead.

theineffable

like i said before, i think both companies were ripping you off.

anyways, the oil pan and axle are problems that need to be fixed. get those done somewhere else that charges less. as for the radiator, keep an eye on the coolant level. if the level isn't going down and you don't see any leaks anywhere, you might not have any problem.

tsb

thanks - I need to find a trustworthy, cheaper shop. I'm working on that, but I definitely don't want to let those two issues go. So do you think it's possible that after having the radiator flushed the day before (the shop didn't know this) they may have seen excess fluid and just assumed it was a leak?

That's the thing, I've never seen anything leaking from my car. I was floored to hear I had a leak because I thought I would at least have some vague suspicion if my radiator was leaking.

Of course now a male friend put the idea in my head that maybe the shop "poked a hole" in my radiator, since they already thought I was expecting to have a problem with it anyway.

I know, I know, foolish women...I vow in 2010 to take a class in auto mechanics. Really, I've been driving for 20 years, there's a lot I should know that I don't.

tsb

Just thought I'd share an update since you all were kind enough to give me advice:
Took the car for several other estimates. The car DOES NOT need a radiator. All three new shops said the same exact thing, independent of each other and without knowing what the dealer or the first shop said. They all three said they saw a tiny bit of fluid that they wouldn't even have noticed (said it was actually behind some kind of splash shield I guess) and that it was probably just some fluid that accumulated over the years, but that the area in general was so dry it was hard to imagine there's any issue, so all three shops said their opinion was that there is no issue and recommended I just have it looked at at my next oil change - if it's still dry at that time that means absolutely no problem.
They all three agreed that the small rusted section of the oil pan could end up being a problem. And they all saw the leaky axle shaft seal.

I didn't get any estimate less than $500 for everything necessary to do the oil pan and axle stuff, with labor. Unfortunately in my neck of the woods I think that's the best I'm going to do. Hell of a lot better than $800, and definitely better than having someone replace a radiator that doesn't need replacing. I can't really say whether that first shop was maliciously just trying to rip me off or if they really thought there was a leak, but I'll never give them my business regardless.

Thanks again for the responses on this.

ehulst

Oil pans gaskets on the Aluminum Pans are common with these, and rusting Honda oil pans arent out of the unussual given your weather climate. FYI rear main seals ive seen leak on this year civic as well which can potentaily fault an oil pan gasket given the oil pan condition.
Raditors can get gunked up and rust out given the conditions and objects you incounter, or hoses can get brital and leak as well.
As for telling the Shop or Dealer of a flush being done, YES! If your going to play the $ game with Shops yeah there are some details that should be left out. but def let the shop know that you recenetly had work done on the vehicle. Its manditory for us at my the Dealer to 30 point check you vehicle even if its just a simple tire rotaion only because we find half *** fixes and un-safe fixes with indepent shops, you have worn parts needing attention (brakes, tires, ball joints, Struts, Ect) which brings yes the dollar sign to us from your wallet. everyone hates the dealer due to cost and can get the better price elsewhere. But your saftey as a paying customer isnt over looked. Given the item and situation, we bring you under the vehicle and show you the leak or grey area so your not out in space when we est you a $400 bill.

as with with fluid leaks, it takes 5 mins to pressure test the system and relayed where the hole or crack is located to the service advisor before you need a radiator just because the sight of fluid. but its not always that simple at times. Any experienced Technican's first step is pressure test.

hopefully some insider info from the dealer is welcome.

whitetoy

I've owned dozens of cars in the last 40 years or so, and have NEVER had to replace an oil pan. My 2 current cars are 18 years old, and 25 years old (a 4x4 rockcrawler). If the pan is aluminum, then it will never rust (rust only happens to ferrous metals). I would have to see this to believe it.

The other items at least sound believable.

Not all dealers and independents are dishonest. The trick is to find one who is honest.
Our local Lexus dealer is dishonest (wife's car) so I now take it to a local independent
who appears to be very honest.

EvDog03

1.IDK if you bought the car used or not, but sometimes previous owners are not as respectable to the car and any car an fall apart if it is not maintained properly.
2. Dealerships are also ridiculous as far as prices go. I don't buy parts from them, they charge WAY to much. Instead I usually replace oem parts with better quality aftermarket ones or used oem ones. Plus they will charge you as much a they can, doesn't matter what company it is.
3. Rarely do you hear of lemon's coming from companies like Honda, Toyota, or Subaru, but it's possible. I'm sure your car is good, just a few unlucky problems.
4. Chances are your Japanese car has more American made parts then your average newer "domestic" car. Newer Honda's typically range from 75 -85% made in America while the other 15-25% is shipped from Japan. A lot of times it's just the transmission.

Pothole987

i remember buying an oil pan for a 95 civic and it was 190 bucks... (new) and gasket was 22.
axle seals wear out especially if you think about how many times your axle turns a minute.

and you think this car is a lemon? i test drove a GMC sierra Hybrid ( well sat in it and they couldnt get it running so gave me another that i didnt like...) now a brand new viechle not running? do i want to buy? same with cobolts i never heard of so many steering problems with them.
but if you think its a lemon buy something else. i guarentee you will miss hondas.