rtbandi

Hello all

Please bear with me as I explain the whole situation...

I have a 2002 Civic LX with 110 K miles on it. Over the weekend, while driving on the highway, I noticed that the temperature gauge fluctuated a little bit before showing a sustained high temperature. I was about 15 - 20 mins way from home and hoped I could get home to resolve whatever the issue may be. In hindsight, I should have pulled over but I didn't . While I drove home, the check engine light and low oil pressure light came on.

When I got off the highway and stopped at a traffic light, light smoke started coming off the hood for a minute or so and the engine stalled. I had the car towed to a service center and the mechanic noticed that the hose connected to the radiator right below the rad cap was disconnected and yellowish liquid sprayed from the hose connection. He concluded that pressure built up in the radiator and that the rad is rusty. I asked about the head gasket but he didnt think that was the issue. We replaced the radiator, thermostat, upper and lower hoses, and coolant. After this, we drove for around 10 miles to make sure everything is ok. In the evening, I drove a little more and restarted the car a few times with no issues.

Earlier today, while my wife drove to work, the car started losing power and gradually came to a stop. No high temp reading but the low oil pressure light came on after the car stopped. A highway patrol guy pulled over, took a look under the hood noticed the same bubbly yellowish liquid leaking (slight leak) from the radiator cap and said the headgasket needs to be replaced. Towed the car to the same service center again.

The mechanic was checking around the engine and noticed some molten plastic pieces (seemed to be from a nearby cover) stuck behind and around the timing belt "axle". But he wasn't sure how the plastic got there. Moreover, he didn't get any compression on any of the cylinders. He is now doing another diagnostic and "tearing down" the front to get a better idea.

I donno what's happening and the mechanic doesn't seem like he is ripping me off in any way. But I am not sure he knows what's wrong.

Is this a blown headgasket issue? Any thoughts on any other causes for the issues?

Thanks a ton!

j.bro

Check for coolant contamination on your oil dipstick... This sounds absolutely like a head gasket. Also sounds like the service place is taking you for a serious ride. First thing I would do when faced with mystery coolant contamination, missing oil and overheating is a compression test or at the very least fill the rad with plain water and watch for bubbles when the engine is idling. If you aren't doing work yourself a low mileage used engine is probably your most economic fix.

rtbandi

Thanks for the quick reply. I felt the mechanic should have checked for the head gasket the first time he did the diagnostic ($60). But he was "95% sure" it was the radiator. He did the compression test only today and there was no pressure and he isn't sure what the problem is. Now after I pay for towing the second time + lost time + car rental, he is charging me $160 for the second diagnostic. All this will be nothing in comparison to what would be needed for a new engine What stumps me is that after replacing hte radiator, everything seemed perfect for 10 -15 miles.

The first time the engine stalled, I checked the oil dipstick it was dark brown and thicker than usual. Is this a sign of coolant contamination (sorry newbie here). Also, there was a burning smell from the engine. The mechanic attributed this to the high temp.

I will post an update on what the mechanic says this time around.

j.bro

Coolant in the oil will look like a chocolate milkshake. A froth of small bubbles of water suspended in oil. Usually brown but sometimes greyish when there is alot of water in the oil. A reading of 0 psi compression on any cylinder is indicative of a total breach of the head gasket, cylinder or block, or failure of an intake or exhaust valve. I would take this to a different mechanic to have your new engine installed. Buy a used one from a wrecking yard not new at the dealer.

rtbandi

I didnt see bubbles...just thicker oil and the burning smell when I lifted the dipstick.

Just returned from a visit to the mechanic...both the mechanic and his supervisor don't think headgasket is an issue. They said engine would lose compression on one or at most two cylinders at the same time and not on all four if headgasket is the issue. They suspect the timing belt slipped (replaced at 90 K abt 15 K miles and 1.5 years ago) and because it is an interference engine, the valves may be damaged...in which case, the head needs to be redone. This is only a suspicion at this point and they would open up the engine tomorrow morning to get a better idea.

Already spent $800 to replace radiator and accessories yday and now looks like atleast $1,200 to redo the head. Is buying an engine from a wrecking yard better than redoing the head?

KBB value of the car is around 5K...should have sold the car a few months ago

civichxtreme2

Id say he may have gone above the head gasket and possibly damaged the head itself. Warped head would cause no compression and it may have settled a bit after the fist time enough to drive ok for a short time til it got back up to temp

rtbandi

Update:

The mechanic says that the timing belt slipped eight notches(?). He thinks this was caused by the plastic pieces that somehow got stuck behind the timing belt sprocket. He tried resetting the timing belt and still didnt get any compression...he is 99.9% sure the valves got damaged.

He said I could get the head resurfaced etc and would cost around $1,200 but that may not necessarily solve the problem if rings got damaged or if there is a crack or other problems because of the overheating. Comments?

He is suggesting going with a new motor. I asked abt a motor from the junkyard but he says there is no guarantee on how good the motor is. He is going to get quotes so I can compare.

What should I do? Please help.

Thanks.

MarkM01

Since you're not doing any diagnostics yourself, then you at the mercy of this mechanic. And he doesn't sound all the competent to me.

If there's no compression then the head will need to come off. At that point, he may be able to examine the tops of the pistons and cylinders to see if they are damaged.

I would be looking for a low mile used engine.

rtbandi

Thanks Mark. I looked up choiceautoparts and see that I can get a sub 50 K engine for around $600. The mechanic is going to call me back and give me estimates for different options. I am leaning towards an used engine as you suggested.

What is typical labor for installing the engine at $80/hr?

I already spent $800 for new rad etc. and if the installation is 2K +, I am beginning to wonder if doing all this work makes sense for a car worth 5K. My wife was driving the civic and in any case, we will be getting a new car.

civichxtreme2

Yeah at this point the used motor option is going to be your best bet, but damn those labor charges are gonna eat you up

rtbandi

Labor cost estimate from the mechanic is around $1,100 + fluids.

The mechanic got a quote for a 67K engine for $1,000 (12 month, 12000 mile warranty on labor and parts). I got a quote from another car part seller for a 50K engine on a 2005 Civic for $600 (6 month, 30000 mile warranty on parts ONLY). Which one is better?

I will be relocating to a different state after the car gets fixed. Anyone in the Memphis area who can install the engine for less than $1,100?

Thanks.

m_shake

We do 1to5 01-05 civic headgaskets a month, they didnt build these as well as 96-00 civics... Oh and the radiator shouldn't be "rusty" seeing as the rad is plastic/aluminum and the block and head are also aluminum.

civichxtreme2

Go with the cheaper one, as long as they make it past initial startup you should be fine with either one

MarkM01

I like fixing old higher mileage cars to keep them going, but I might feel different if I had to pay those labor rates.

I would still probably just get it fixed, especially if the rest of the car is in good shape. It's worth nothing with a bad engine.

Maybe you can negotiate that price down some since they didn't do the best job of diagnosing it in the first place.

And like someone else said, that 'rusty radiator' was bs. Those parts were probably fine.

rtbandi

I will see if they have the old radiator around and will take a picture of it. I agree the initial diagnosis wasn't correct. But the mechanic contends the car ran fine for 20 miles and that the problem had been fixed and that the engine problem is a new one...which sounds bs to me. I will be more forceful in my negotiations this time around.

I am leaning towards using the engine with NO warranty on labor. I haven't had major issues with the car so far and I think the rest of it is ok. Any cause for concern that there may be problems other than the engine itself...which would require additional diagnosis and repairs. I realize an appropriate answer may not be possible without doing a full diagnostic test...just trying to get a feel for what other issues may come up based on the symptoms mentioned in earlier posts.

99blackcivicSi

the plastic that burnt was from a drastic overhead its the rear timing cover up top behind the cam gear that is to be used a temp gauge if that is melted rule of thumb motor is junk...melted to the point of interfering with the belt jumped multiple teeth bent valves, if it got hot enough to melt that hard plastic cover your bearings are junked head is warped block is warped motor is basically a paperwieght.

now the good news...those motors are literally everywhere and very very cheap

also your "mechanic" has no clue what the hell he's doing

rtbandi

Agree. What stumps me is that once the radiator and accessories were changed out, the car ran perfectly fine for 20 miles and temp gauge was normal. Do you think the overheating somehow occurred after the rad was changed? the belt did jump 10 teeth and valves were bent.

In any case, had my car towed to a service center specializing in hondas and acuras. I bought a 30K 2003 civic engine (without intake and exhaust manifolds) from a junkyard for $470...the junkyard only had engines from insurance totaled cars so this is a big risk. Hopefully, no other missing parts...the guy at the junkyard was the least helpful with all the questions I had about using the engine and what other parts may be needed.

The new service center will look at the engine on Tuesday...keeping my fingers crossed.

99blackcivicSi

yeah bled all the air out of the system new coolant things are fine for a very short amount of time 20 miles then bam overheat agian due to failed headgasket which he missed (or rather more than likely a stretched bolt) regardless gasket and bolts needed replaced. and there you have your severe overheat it was always bad you just had new components mask the real issue.

rtbandi

More issues

Apparently there was enough rust in the old "system" that it clogged up the new radiator, which now needs replacement! I had the new service center mechanic speak to the "mechanic" at the previous service center and both seem to think it is quite possible that there was so much rust in the system.

How can I be sure that even if I put in a new radiator, it will not get clogged again! Am I just unlucky or maintained the car poorly or am I being ripped off?

MarkM01

Did they change the engine?

Rust from where? The whole system is aluminum, plastic, and rubber hoses. And if something is rusting that badly, what is it? If that were true, whatever is rusting better be replaced immediately!

Mineral deposits maybe? Did you ad well/hard water to the system? How many coolant flushes or drain/fills have you done in those 105k miles?

Find a real tech, not a grease monkey. They're clueless.