johnsc2235

Long storty short Honda engines are not what they used to be and nobody wants to admit that they are wrong. Honda's maintance minder system does not work quite like it should because NOBODY checks their own oil, therefore once oil additives breaks down (at around 3000miles) the oil turns corrosive, and starts using oil, at 5000 miles you are probably down at least a quart if not more, then at say 7000 miles (roughly the time the minder system tells you to change your oil) you are at least 2-2.5 qts low. Which does not sound a lot but when it is that low and the viscosity of the oil is so worn/thin parts wear faster, thus the rings wear quicker, the seals get hardened (valve stem seals) and the timing chain starts to stretch as it is not getting the proper lubrication and gets hot and then stretches...Repeat this over and over and say at 60-80 thousand miles the engine is damaged. We see it all the time at my dealer. We are replacing at least 5-7 shortblocks a week...Yes a WEEK!! Add in the pistons and rings we are doing and we are very busy just trying to keep up with warranty repairs. The Service Bulletin just came out for these issues on these cars, we are to replace the piston rings and clean the pistons for basically nothing. There is no mileage limit only 8 yrs from point of delievery. I believe that there is going to be another lawsuit as well towards Honda from the Technicians for Time infringment. We are going to start that process soon as they (Honda) are only going to pay techs 7 hrs to replace piston rings on cylinders 1-4, so either they are going to have to up the time they are paying for this job or the job will not get done properly. Honda is just killing their good name/reputation to save a buck. Its sad.

GoLowDrew

I paid for this on my Ody. Is this a cut and paste statement? It sounds a bit confusing.

What does this mean? Just wait and see. No need to call customer service now?

johnsc2235

It is now a Service Bulletin that was released to us on Oct 8th.
Accords SB 13-078
Pilots SB 13-082

GoLowDrew

So would you advise changing the oil at maybe 30% according to MM or some other #, if 15% is not correct.

johnsc2235

I would change it at 3500 miles if it were mine, I would also try and use non oxygenated gas as that seems to carbon up the engine quicker than gas that does not. Just observations that we have seen in the shop.

planetace

Thank you so much for that update, on the SB for the Accords..
I was looking into on what cause those CEL's to go off.
I had the misfire on cylinder #1.
Took it to the dealer, they only covered 4 sparks plugs tho..Don't know why? I asked them why not change all 6??..
The dealer said, just be happy you got 4 replaced!! lol Just kidding.. since its the dealer...
I asked the Service Manager, he just showed me the service bulletin. And it only states to change spark plugs 1-4.
And I also got the firmware update to the ecu. Which helps things running smoother. specially in ECO mode...
Just wanted to share my recent experience with this.
And thanks, "johnsc2235" for the update.

Slegman29

Slegman29

Been having the same problem number 3 cyl has fouled plug at 30k 60k 90k 104 k . Spoke to dealer today and he said there was a bullitins out and a fix . He mention rings to me but he is going to get back to me after speaking to Honda. Car is out of warranty but since I have had this problem since 30k they should fix it. Does anyone know what the bullitins states.

johnsc2235

The bulletin states to first replace plugs 1-4 if needed, and update the pcm ecu, If it comes back with a misfire again in the same cylinder/cylinders we are to replace the pistons and rings in the effected cylinders and this is in any/all accord/pilot/odyssey V6 engines. However at my dealership we are over on our Warranty dollar amounts, like way over so what they (management) is telling us is we cannot perform these piston/ring service bulletins because we are already too far over our warranty budget so We are supposed to tell the customer we need to do a oil consumption test and push it out until the car hits 60K, so it is out of the powertrain warranty and we can goodwill it. That way it does not count against our warranty dollars.....Politics as usual at my dealer.

Wiley75

The 3.5 V6 has a timing chain?

I have 155,000 now on my 2008 Accord V6 EXL. And 43,000 on my 2012 V6 Crosstour. Neither have had any of the issues you describe. Matter of fact neither has any any issues at all. Very well made cars in my opinion

BLKFLSH

OK, what engines are you talking about? V6, I4, VCM V6, or what specifically?

johnsc2235

The V6 is belt driven. The chains are in 4cylinder models. The misfire issue is on all V6 engines, however it's just the vcm V6 engines that are having the issue..but the service bulletins cover all v6. The 4cylinders are using oil because the rings are too small and lack of oil/oil changes..

Wiley75

Thanks. I asked the question but already knew the answer. I wasn't sure why you were bringing up 4 cylinder issues on a thread about V6 engines. To each their own but to play devil's advocate for a moment... my experiences lead me to believe that Honda's 3.5L is an incredible engine. No misfire issues or replaced piston/ring packs. My Accord at 155K still uses zero oil, even at a 6500 mile change interval (which is typically 30% on the maintenance minder). When I changed my plugs at 110K miles 4 were ever so slightly darker around the insulator than the remaining 2. But hardly enough for my eyes to notice. I'm sure it's related to the VCM system, which isn't surprising when you consider how it works. I wonder why some folks have the issue and others don't. Perhaps variables such as driving style, driving conditions, distance of commute to work, etc have an affect? Cheers.

BLKFLSH

I imagine that the more time the engine spends in 3 cylinder mode, the more likely there would be plugs fouling. I'm so glad my 03 V6 doesn't have VCM or the Maintenance Minder system. Of course I could just ignore the MM, but there is no way to turn VCM off. My engine doesn't consume, or burn any noticeable oil at 111k miles. I use Mobil 1 5w-20 every 4k miles with Honda filter.

johnsc2235

You say you change your oil at 6500, that is a lot and I mean a lot more frequently than what we see when we are seeing problems, most people are changing at 10-12K, so do that and at around 40-60K they are starting to see some issues (mainly in the 4 cylinders) but the V6 are having issues due to a combination of things but lack of oil changes, Carbon build up/mixing it up with ethonol gas and hot and cold climates....This is all straight from Honda...from their engineers and the technical training centers...

As far as the V6 is concerned, they have been pretty reliable other than the VCM cars, and more than likely you wont have an issue, all I was stating was we have seen quite a few, especially with p0301-0304.....Ive replaced around 18 short blocks and 7 sets of pistons and rings so far this year, I am one tech at a dealer with 26 other journeyman techs, I should've sent out the picture of our parts department when we had 38 wood boxes of warranty short blocks!! It was crazy! That was just in 3 months time....

GoLowDrew

Before this thread scares people about. I own two J35 V6 with VCM. The Odyssey have almost no oil lost at all between changes. And I follow the MM. For me, that's about 6-7K. On the Accord, there is a bit more. I also follow the MM, I would est that I add about 1/2 qt between changes. I'll just call it "maintenance." I guess I'm lucky, maybe.

I'll say that these engines are not like past Honda engines. Buying any extra oil between changes was a waste of money. However, I used to go 3K-4K.

I wonder if I was to go back to 3K-4K intervals, would I notice any oil lost? Probably not. If my intervals are 10-12K between changes, I would bet I'll be adding more.

johnsc2235

I just happen to get another one today..misfire on cylinder #2. This is what the plug looks like. His oil change history is terrible. Distance between oil changes are as follows..8,096...11,779...11,774...9,827...

GoLowDrew

Does the car's computer logs in the oil change interval, or are the intervals based on the owner's kept records?

Just wondering how would you verify when the oil was actually changed?

johnsc2235

The engine was about 2 qts low and the oil was black.

kevin512

New member here. I stumbled across this forum during a google search trying to figure out why my '09 Accord EX-L V6 is burning so much oil.

I am looking for a bit of help.

Background:
-Oil consistently changed when MM hits 15% (about 7,000 miles).
-Before 60K miles, engine was using 1 quart oil every 5K miles
-At 61K in July, 2013: Cylinder #3 misfire code (P0303) VSA Light on (Code 83-13). Dealer did the following:-Since "fix" was done, oil consumption is now 1 quart every 1,500 miles!

I made an appointment for next Monday with the Twin Cites dealer where I bought the car.

How should I proceed with dealer? Does my car sound like a candidate for getting new rings or engine block?

Thanks!

NightHawk92

I know im glad to that my 2003 Accord V6 doesn't have VCM Variable cylinder Management when I first heard that VCM was available on 08 and current Honda Accords I thought it was interesting feature to have but I guess not. Honda should just keep to there VTEC & iVTEC engines.

Wiley75

So the paperwork on the table under the fouled plug states something about the piston rings are rotating. Must be some kind of mfg defect. That could indeed cause a big problem. I assume the ring gaps are stacking up allowing excessive blowby and oil consumption thru the aligned ring gaps. I can't really see how miles between oil changes would affect this. And changing the plugs would just be a band aid.

kevin512

Update:

I went to the Honda dealer and they are starting an oil consumption test. I checked the dipstick when I got home and my car is WAY overfilled with oil. I'll have to burn a lot of oil just to get down to the full mark. Some test.

I'm tired of this, but I suppose I need to go back and have them drain some oil.

GoLowDrew

You dealer sucks...Time to start a letter writing campaign.

kevin512

Please elaborate. How do I go about contacting Honda? Any chance Honda monitors these boards and can help me out?