johnsc2235

This is what a stretched chain looks like, it only has to be off this much to cause issues. You will typically get a cmp cam out of phase or vtc code. Check the tensioner first if it's out more than 13mm your chain is stretched.. This other picture shows what it should look like if your chain is good.

94vtecmn

Wow, that's a lot. How many miles were on that motor?

And, are there two chains in there? What is the lower chain for, and are you not replacing that one?

johnsc2235

This engine had 88k on it, the average oil change interval was 7300 miles. Yes there are two chains in the motor but the lower one you don't replace. It's for the oil pump.

PyroProblem

Wow, thats crazy! Did it feel more "peppy" after the new chain?
No new chain guides?

johnsc2235

Idk about peppy but ran better. Chain guides are replace if needed

94vtecmn

Do you know what kind of oil and filter was being used?

johnsc2235

Oem filters and Mobil oil

BLKFLSH

So, in your opinion, what was the cause? Was it running the engine low on oil (from consumption over the 7300 miles), or something else? Does the timing chain get less oil, if the level is low?

johnsc2235

My opinion is that the oil changes were stretched out too long..rings wore, it started using oil which then was ran low over several oil change cycles because nobody checks their oil or adds any, that in return caused oil starvation and heat build up which stretches chains. Surprisingly it's a rather cheap fix. It only cost the customer about $1300.

BLKFLSH

Well, we may have a difference of opinion on "cheap", but I'm sure it could have been much worse. If they changed the piston rings, I guess it's not bad.

johnsc2235

I just said cheap because when we used to do 4cylinder timing belts they were between $950-1150.... The chain is much more complex and takes a lot more time. You could do a belt in 25-60 minutes....a chain will take you at least 3.5hrs if you clean everything up properly and reseal it properly....

BLKFLSH

It's beginning to sound like Honda should have stuck with the timing belt on all it's motors. The timing chains are supposed to last the life of the car, but it doesn't always work out that way.

94vtecmn

I guess keeping up on the oil level and using better filters is a good thing.

What were the signs of an issue? What made the owner bring it in? CEL's? Just plain running like crap?

My daughter drives the '03 I4 my parents bought new running the AmsOil bypass filter setup, and I don't want to have to spend "ONLY" $1300 on the job. In fact, I'd probably do it myself if it is that much.

johnsc2235

I think simply checking your oil every other fill up at the gas station would prevent all of this. Add when needed and don't bitch that you have to check the oil or add any after 3000 miles...oil is cheap, engine repairs are not.....

johnsc2235

It states in the manual check oil every fill up...

Nobody does.....

94vtecmn

I agree with that 100%. I was just wondering what triggered the owner to think there was something wrong, besides their lack of understanding.

johnsc2235

It had a cmp code and ran like crap.

Lost Again

Ah, the P0341 - the death of another timing chain.

94vtecmn

A friend has an I4 that is making a noise, on the passenger side, click click click, which does not sound like valves. Can you tell me if these make noise when the tensioner goes or if the chain is stretched? The car runs fine, just has this clicking noise.

Thoughts?

94vtecmn

Nevermind. His serpentine belt had never been changed, was cracking good, and the noise I assume was from a chunk of ribs about an inch long missing. Carry on.

tigerdale

The timing chain on my wife's 04 Accord EX 2.4 stretched and my brother and I are repairing the car now. The symptoms that we had were the same as JOHNSC2235 explained. Car started using oil between changes at 5 -6k miles. CEL began coming on. The car seemed less peppy whenever I drove it. Then, we began noticing a faint rattle from the passenger side engine compartment. One morning maybe a week later the car fails to start. No compression on any cylinder.
We've replaced the rings, rod bearings, installed a timing chain kit, and had the head rebuilt. We'll be finishing the car today and try to start it for the first time. After doing all this work, I'm confused on this CKP/computer re-learn procedure. If anyone can explain how to do this, I'd greatly appreciate it.

professorman

From all the people that I have seen with 'stretched' timing chain, the chain didnt stretch because of normal operation. It is always because the car was ran low on oil, and eventually it stretches the chain.

This might be one reason why I will stick to dino oil, and not convert to synthetic. I do my dino oil changes at 3500 miles, and this will ensure that I check the oil at least that often. The key to not having a stretched chain is to not run low on oil.

Wish these cars or all cars had an in-dash oil level sensor, rather than the dipstick only. A sensor plus a dipstick. Dont get rid of the dipstick and leave just a sensor... like what BMW does.

m.naim

I'm getting some good information here. This past week, I took the my 2003 Accord EX 2.4L 4cylinder Manual Transmission to the shop because the check engine light just would not go off... Back in November ('14), the check engine light came on and I had these two codes on the OBDii -
P0344 Honda - Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Intermittent Interruption
P0369 Honda - Camshaft Position Sensor 'B' Circuit Intermittent

The mechanic replaced the two sensors right away but the lights came back on a couple of days later. The mechanic was not sure why and he reset the CEL a couple of times... He advised me to take it to the dealership for a more thorough diagnostic.

Took to the car to another mechanic and the opinion is that there was nothing wrong with the sensors to begin with. The 2nd mechanic said that the problem could have been the timing chain all along. The reasoning for this was that the CEL would not come on in the freezing winter mornings or nights but would light up after the car ran for a few miles. The mechanic explained that the chain could be getting stretched once the car was running.... Not sure if his reasoning is correct. Feedback would be much appreciated.

I have been driving the car and I cannot accelerate a whole lot especially when I am driving uphill or when I am shifting from lower to a higher gear... If I accelerate too quickly, it almost FEELS like I jumped from whatever gear I was in into neutral, even though I'm actually in 2nd, 3rd gear or 4th gear. So, I slow down and then shift to a lower gear and accelerate gently. This is a workaround but I fear something bad is gong to happen soon....

The 2nd mechanic recommended that I get a new engine (from the junk yard)... He is not sure what the problem could be.... Timing chain or piston problems... He said it is easier to replace the entire engine instead of fixing one engine issue at a time only for another engine part to fail later... Is his advice sound?

I'm the second owner and the car has done over 215,000 miles. The previous owner took good care of the car and I have the entire maintenance file.... Just wondering if lack of oil change is the only reason for failure of the timing chain....

While I agree completely with the timely oil changes, I have a question on some of those 'Extended Performance' synthetic oils that require one to change oil every 15,000 miles. If I'm able to fix my car, I was planning to use the extended performance synthetic oil along with a long distance oil filter (to be replaced every 10,000 miles) but change oil and filter at every 5,000 miles. Not sure if this is a good strategy....

Sorry for the lengthy post but I'm trying to be as detailed and clear with the posting.

94vtecmn

My daughters (Parents bought it new) '03 I4 Auto has been run with AmsOil 0w30 100% synthetic since new (After the first oil change at 3k) with the AmsOil By-Pass filter system. Oil gets changed about every 25k, filters at that time as well. Uses about a quart every 7k, so I just top off and send her down the road. Car is coming up on its 5th oil change since new. Unless putting on a by-pass filter system, I would stick to ~7500 mile oil/filter changes, that's what I do with my V6, and when the maint minder on the dash will alert you.

As for timing chain stretch, definitely keep up on the oil level and don't let it get below the range on the dip stick, this is common sense with any motor.

professorman

Please tell me when you are selling your car so that I make sure that I dont buy one the same time and accidentally get your car.