wantathonda2009

So my 2003 accord has a weird vibrating and shimmering that comes on as as soon as you accelerate. It feels as though something is in the front wheels particularly the right. I am stressed on how to define it. What I can tell you what it is not.

So the car was shaking and vibrating only on acceleration.
About the same time it started we had to do a couple of maintenance things which has ruled out so many other issues but at the same time makes it hard.

1. Soon after it started we went and had the brakes and subsequently rotors done. After same problem but we kind of knew it was separate.

2. Brought it in for its 98,000 mile serivice (at 98,000). We told the dealer about the problem assumed the inspected it only said it needed an alignment. Which it definitely did not. See next item.

3. On the afternoon/eve of July 3rd 4 days after its tuneup brought it into a mechanic ready to close to see if this thing really needed an alignment. Guy drove it said it does not. Maybe needs tires rotated. Did it but did not help. However, the person who worked on the car that only spoke spanish told the shop owner about the car in spanish, which the owner translated to me that my control arms were broken. The owner himself hadn't looked under the car. Hence a post I made on July 5th titled "Broken Control Arms"

4. Last week we brought it to TWO mechanics and both drove it and checked it out and said it was definitely not the controls arms and both said it may be due to the tires.

5. new tires were bought and the vibrations from the car and steering wheel decreased but the problem is still there: The shaking and feeling as though something is in the tires itself. Or We are running over something.

So the facts are the problem is not due to the:

brakes
rotors
tires
control arms/bushing

The car:

brakes fine
is fine in a straight line
this problem does not occur when in reverse.
drives well overall all the mechanics noted.
So what is the problem?



However this problem is only with acceleration. What could it be?
Please help me if you can.

stumpyf4

If you're getting a take-off vibration (accelerating from a stop) I'd check the axles, possibly one or more of the CV joints is worn.

Tire issues (balance, out of round, excessive RFV) is mostly noticed between 80-120km/h.

90sedan

Sounds like you have a bad inner cv joint. This would cause excessive vibration only when accelerating.

It could also be a bad wheel bearing creating excessive play in the hub, but that's likely to make a very apparent whining noise when driving, and since you didn't mention that, its probably not the issue.

And like Stumpyf4 said, most tire vibration issues are almost always only apparent at freeway speeds and will be present within a certain range of speeds and will not be affected by different types of engine/drivetrain load (accleration/decel/cruising).

If your vehicle literally had "broken" control arms, it would not be drivable, well atleast not safely. However, if they were bent, it could still be driven. And that might have been what they meant? But in order to make that kind of claim with any sort of accuracy the vehicle would need to be inspected, and then aligned. Unless you know the vehicle had been in an accident. And at any rate, a bent control arm would likely just throw the alignment specs out unless it was severely damaged, and you would know if it was as you would experience a very "loose" feel to the front end.

And just because a vehicle drives straight, doesn't prove that it is properly aligned.

wantathonda2009

So it seems both of you above would recommend checking the CV joints before spending money to get an alignment?

Also if the CV joint is causing a problem shouldn't I hear noise when turning? I don't? Steering is almost perfect.

tek_civic

Well an inner CV joint will be a lot quieter when turning than the outter. You can try turning in reverse with the wheel almost locked to each direction, but if its the inner this will not show much.

You can hop under the car and just inspect the CV joints for torn boots and greese everywhere. You can also grab the axles and push up/down on them, sometimes this will show a little play.


What i would check first: Go under your car and inspect your axles, specifically the one you think it is. About in the middle of the axle there might be a little non painted ring that looks cleaner than the rest. If there is you lost a weight. There are little weights that attach to the axle and balance things out. Although these typically dont go anywhere, i suppose it is possible to lose one. It also matches the problems pretty well


If thats not it jack up the corner. Grab the wheel at 12 and 6, and push and pull(push top pull bottom, then switch) back and forth. If you hear clicking or feel play thats an issue with the wheel bearing(although that would make sound most of the time, not just vibration generally).
Then have someone hold the steering wheel at full lock while you try to turn the wheel with your hands in the same fasion as above (hold at 9 and 3). this will help find play in your steering rack and tierods. wouldnt be my guess, but worth a check.
Next have your wheel streight, and pull streight up at 12 on the wheel, if you can have your hand on the inside feeling the balljoint for play while you do this.



Also post a little more info on the issue.. Did this just start one day? did it start after a repair? did the driver hit a big pothole one day before? did the car sit for an extended period of time in the sun(like months)?

wantathonda2009

Well the series of problems started a while ago. This is my mom's car. I mostly drives my dad's corolla. I make trips to the store here and there. Back in May my mom asked if I noticed that the steering wheel vibrates? I said not really after driving it a few times around town.

The first weekend of June I did a roundtrip from Boston to New York. I was cruising in this car. It was overall so smooth. I noticed a vibration at about 70 but not too much. But honestly, when you go from a 02 corolla to an Accord there is a huge refinement upgrade. Plus there was not traffic and I stayed in cruise control so no regular acceleration.

However, about two to three weeks later the problem that is coming from the wheel or wheel area began to surface. I remember as a passenger watching the steering wheel vibrate while going up a hill. The car went into get brakes and also ended up needing new rotors.
Two weeks later we did the tune up. With new tires last week the problem is back to the wheel area which makes the car itself shutter.
This car moves daily and on a somewhat regular route. And no big potholes. The car shiimmers particularly at 30mph. You'd think it would be consistent from 0-30 but...

What I am wondering is if the car went in to get brakes, Honda dealer for a 90,000 mile tune up, was seen by two mechanics, the area by the controls arms were inspected, the tires were changed, and nobody saw the axles? I will probably be able to go out in an hour to do the reverse test again.
Thanks for your responses so far.

tek_civic

Yeah thats why the cv is somewhat unlikely, but if the boot was torn a while ago the greese would have long since flown out and could have been cleaned by carwashes/naturally. In which case a small tear could be hard to spot.

Let us know when you get out and check the axles. I would still check for the weight really quick. it basically looks like a doughnut wrapped around the axle.

wantathonda2009

Well a few hours after my post. I got a flat tire. I am beyond frustrated. Bought the insurance on the new tires didn't think I would have to use it three days later. So they just tire company came and towed the car 15 minutes before they are about to close. Will keep you updated.

ef1991hf

if it has been wrecked it could be in a bind/or maybe on or more of the engine mounts are bad, secondly check your tie rod ends.

wantathonda2009

Update So I am back. Brought it into Firestone and they did a test drive. These guys are the only ones to do it on the highway. While driving it on the road the driver marveled at the smoothness and refinement of the car and the brakes as everyone had before. He did noticed the wobbling while accelerating around town but said it was subtle, I guess like the others had. However, I told him it is very prominent accelerating on highway speeds so he got on the highway and got to the unfortunate sweet spot of 60mph he yelled "wow" and "horrendous" as the car began to shake and wobble. He brought it back in and an actual tech drove it and then did a complete inspection. He said he doesn't believe it is a mechanical issue but a drive train issue. He said they they car is not vibrating as much as it is "shimmering during acceleration" which brought them to the drivetrain conclusion. It has to be brought in next week for the Lead Tech to look at it and for them to get to the root of the drive train problem.

He asked me if there was ever an accident that may have pushed something into the transmission and axle. I told him no. He asked this as he remembers one car being brought in with the same problem a Pontiac Bonneville that had spun and hit a pole or something like that. They narrowed down to a drivetrain issue. The guy first took the new axle option as someone mentioned above but that was not the problem. It was the transmission. So I guess I am now crossing my fingers and hoping its a transmission mount and not the transmission. That will be so expensive. The car has $100,000 miles.

Thinking of making a new thread now that the problem has been sort of honed. Everyone was looking at all the straight mechanical things but apparently it is in the drivetrain. I guess I will see based on the responses. Thanks

HONDAPARTSMANMIKE

replace the front axles. its kinda commmon usually when you have such a bad shimmy on hard aceleration(feels like front end is falling apart,and possilbe dash is shaking alot) its from the axles. one thing u can do is remove the larger clamp on the axle boot for both inner and outer joints and see if there any rust on joints or lack of grease. ill put my money on it its the axles causing your vibration/shimmy...good luck

wantathonda2009

Well wouldn't the Honda dealer have had to inspect the transmission when I brought it in for the service where they changed the transmission? Yet this problem only occurs during acceleration. I could cruise at 80mph just getting there would be torture. Luckily all my routes are in the city. We will see.

HONDAPARTSMANMIKE

yes they would have but the axle wont show any signs of damage on the outside unless the boot are ripped open or leaking. i would just replace the axles. i would rec gting some from autozone,advanced autoparts or whatever parts store u r near cause they are pretty expensive from honda. customer hate spending that money when i tell them they need axles. sometime we use the ones from the autoparts store to save them money..

wantathonda2009

I really hope so. The axles are part of the drivetrain right? Cause that is what he has to inspect/confirm next week with the Lead Tech (if my father brings it in). He was thinking transmission and transmission mounts.

HONDAPARTSMANMIKE

yes they are a part of the drivetrain. are you bring it to a honda dealer for this diag??

wantathonda2009

No I took it to Firestone. I didn't want to go to back to the Honda dealer because I guess I felt they only did the minimum. If they test drove it they could have found something. I mean all other mechanics guessed tires and more. All they said was do an alignment.So lack of confidence in them. Not only that but I would have to drop it off with them. Firestone let me ride with them as they tested it out. But they said after they diagnose officially I could ask for a second opinion. The situation was so unique to them they are eager to find out too. Like I said the guy had only come across one car like that and it ended up being the transmission.

You recommend finding another Honda dealer?

HONDAPARTSMANMIKE

i would but thats just because i work for the dealer. if you go back to firestone and they tell you its more than axles i would bring it to the dealer for anther opinion.

wantathonda2009

The problem has been solved. I went on vacation while my father brought the car back in. It turns out it was the axles as many had thought. Thanks for all your help. They said it was a very hard to diagnose especially since the problem truly manifested itself at highway speeds which was not a typical test. Also you have to get truly to get into get to the front axles. So it was fixed. Now lets hope the Honda remains reliable in other areas.

wantathonda2009

Update

Brought it back to the dealer for an oil change and the inspection. They told me my front control arms are loose. So I guess it turns out my axles and control arms were messed up because I made a post about the control arms. Gosh what the heck happen to my car that would cause the front axles to break and the controls arms to be loose. And I guess the questions in this long diagnosis problem how come when they were changing the axles they did not address the control arm?

My control arm post: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-crosstour-2003-2012-118/broken-control-arms-2600888/

super trucker

Consider yourself lucky. I had a similar shimmy in the front of my converted RHD CRX. After having axles made, and still not curing the problem, we diagnosed the tranny. No fun.

Just remember, it could have been a lot worse! lol